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Jump Tenders

rancke

Absent Friend
Originally posted by Tom Schoene:
If you're playing T20, I would look at the rules for smallcraft. A dispersed structure assumes the carried craft are internal, but there are also special rules for craft carried externally that would allow the core ship to be partially or fully streamlined (very useful for tactical refuelling).
:confused:You mean the reverse of what you write here, right? A dispersed structure assumes the carried craft are external and carrying them internally allows the core ship to be streamlined?

Hans
 
Right. I have an issue with Jump Tenders at the moment.

Some information suggests that the Battle Riders are attached to the outside of the tender thus adding to the volume to be transported through jump space, while others state that the riders are housed in hangars like any other craft.

I go for the second option, the first one has too many worms. Under the attached outside the battle riders would need their own jump grids, which kind of defeats the point a little. Plus the tender would need jump engines for a volume greater than itself.

Any thoughts on this, or am I getting the wrong end of the stick, again?
 
In earlier editions of Traveller, the riders were included in the total size of the tender, so a 250kdt tender might only actually be 100kdt in size, while the other 150kdt was the riders.
All the calculations for fuel, drive size, etc, would be based on the 250kdt figure.

Battleriders attached to the outside of the tender allow for faster dispersal upon arrival, and I seem to recall seeing a picture of just such an arrangement somewhere (JTAS or somewhere).

However... some ships certainly do use internal bays (the X-boat tender for instance - okay... so it's not carrying battleriders, but it's an example).
 
The small pic of the battle tender in Library Data A-N shows the riders on the outside. The Tender is pretty much just a framework with a drive section and a section for controls and crew quarters.
And then Fighting Ships of the Imperium for MT has a pic of a Tender with enclosed hangers. So obviously you can do either.
 
My question is how can you have the riders external with no jump grid covering them? You'd need either some of the tenders hull to cover them for the grid, or they'd need their own jump grid which would take up volume on the riders and need to be taken into account.
 
Originally posted by BenBell:
My question is how can you have the riders external with no jump grid covering them? You'd need either some of the tenders hull to cover them for the grid, or they'd need their own jump grid which would take up volume on the riders and need to be taken into account.
Why would the jump grid take up volume? It's a surface feature and all of the Traveller design sequences have assumed that it's a low-cost or no-cost option. The drive that energizes the grid requires volume, but the grid itself does not.

There are numerous canon examples of jump-capable ships carrying other large ships either partially or fully exposed, with no indication that they need to have any volume or cost assigned to the jump grid. The most obvious one is the SDB and jump shuttle from Traders and Gunboats and the jump ship from Fighting Ships.
 
I think Traveller canon is a bit fuzzy here...

If I remember correctly, the term "jump grid" comes from the MT supplement The Starship Operator's Handbook . Previous to that we see the term "jump field". In the CT supplement Fighting Ships the entry for the "Jump Ship" shows an illustration of the vessel transporting planetoid chunks in a net of "jump cables".

There is no indication of any sort of "jump field generation equipment" for the external mounted small craft of other canon starships (the launch mounted atop the Fat Trader or the underslung gig of the Gazelle Close Escort).

MTU is a "small ship" millieu so I've never dealt with the whole battleship v. battlerider debate. If I had to make the call I would say that the framework of the battletender carries sufficient jump field generating capability to encompass the mounted battleriders. YMMV.

A 10K dTon battlerider and 10K dTon jump capable warship make the same big scary blip on my corsair's sensor screens
file_23.gif


Stay safe!
Big Mike
 
Okay fair enough. Well enough aruged. I'll accept that.

I presume the design sequences still include the volume the riders encompass even for the open dispersed ones and the drives are made with that additional tonnage in mind.
 
Originally posted by BenBell:
I presume the design sequences still include the volume the riders encompass even for the open dispersed ones and the drives are made with that additional tonnage in mind.
In theory, yes. IN practice, they sometmes screw up. The ridder/tender combo in the Spinawrd marches Campaign is totally broken, IIRC.

If you're playing T20, I would look at the rules for smallcraft. A dispersed structure assumes the carried craft are internal, but there are also special rules for craft carried externally that would allow the core ship to be partially or fully streamlined (very useful for tactical refuelling).
 
Originally posted by rancke:
:confused:You mean the reverse of what you write here, right? A dispersed structure assumes the carried craft are external and carrying them internally allows the core ship to be streamlined?
No, I meant what I said, but didn't word it clearly.

In T20, you've got several options for designing a battlerider tender. Each has different benefts.

1) Conventional (per HG and T20): the mothership carries the riders in internal bays. Each bay requires 110% of the volume of the carried craft and costs Cr2000 per ton of craft carried. THe ship can launch only one rider for each 10,000 tons of hull in a turn (not a limit on rider tenders, really). Ths design can be SL or PSL, deoending on configuration. The mothership's effective displacement is the same with or without riders aboard.

2) Dispersed Structure (per HG and T20): the mothership carries riders in an extrnal frameowrk of some sort. Ruleswise, this is basically the same as above, except it can launch all carried craft at once, the hull is cheaper, and you can't add any armor. This design is always USL. Displacement remains the same even when the riders are dropped.

3) External Docking Mount (new for T20). Craft are carried externally. They require internal space in the mother ship equal to 30% of the carried craft's volume and cost Cr 4000 per ton of craft carried. The mothership can be SL, PSL or even USL, depending on the hull type chosen. But the standard external docking mounts reduce the streamlining of the mother ship by one step while the subordinate craft are docked (SL to PSL, PSL to USL, etc.). This penalty can be eliminated by doubling the cost to reflect a tighter design. The great benefit here is that the ship's effective displacment changes depending on whether the subcraft are attached or not. Thus, this is the only design that gets faster when it drops its riders.

If I had a little time I'd design the three alternatives and see which one is best.
 
BenBell :
Right. I have an issue with Jump Tenders at the moment.

Some information suggests that the Battle Riders are attached to the outside of the tender thus adding to the volume to be transported through jump space, while others state that the riders are housed in hangars like any other craft.
The MT supplement 'Fighting Ships of the Shattered Empire' assumed Battle Riders to be carried inside bays. By MT design this would use up about 130%(?) of the Riders volume, and the typical tender of some 100.000s tons(?) would carry up to three 10.000 ton Battle Riders (My books never seem to be where I need them...)

Have a nice day,
Aldan Romar
 
Originally posted by Aldan Romar:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />BenBell :
Right. I have an issue with Jump Tenders at the moment.

Some information suggests that the Battle Riders are attached to the outside of the tender thus adding to the volume to be transported through jump space, while others state that the riders are housed in hangars like any other craft.
The MT supplement 'Fighting Ships of the Shattered Empire' assumed Battle Riders to be carried inside bays. By MT design this would use up about 130%(?) of the Riders volume, and the typical tender of some 100.000s tons(?) would carry up to three 10.000 ton Battle Riders (My books never seem to be where I need them...)

Have a nice day,
Aldan Romar
</font>[/QUOTE]________________________________________________
Internal bays were at minimum 10% larger than the craft they would hold. (so the displacement volume used per BR was 11ktns x3.), IIRC (have books, travel with them to/ from work-never at loss as long as car trunk remains secure!). From the description-"spacious hangar" And that who likes a number like a 133Ktn ship, they probably dressed out at 150Ktns.
 
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