We know that jump space has a negative impact on biologicals. I recall bits and pieces about jump space intruding into ships for one reason or another, usually killing people but I think there were survivors in some cases. What if any impact does it have on ordinary matter? Specifically, if a ship were to be constructed with an external shell outside of the jump grid - say a whipple shield against micrometeors - what impact would jump space have on the material of the external shell?
Jump space interactions with materials
- Thread starter Carlobrand
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BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
I can't find the source, but I recall that anything that is intersected by the limit of the jump-field doesn't jump. The intersection of the hull by the jump field leaves a neat hole (at best). The intersection of a person leaves a hole (with consequences of same in a vacuum). Just leaving a person outside the field doesn't affect them until their air runs out.
Can anyone source this? Thought comes up in part because MT doesn't budget a volume against hull armor - which technically means their ships are a bit bigger than the volume actually ascribed to them. Mostly irrelevant until you get down to the small-ship region, in which case just the basic armor-40 can add several percent at tech level 9 and its either jumping with some mass outside of the jump grid or jumping with insufficient fuel. If the neat hole is version-dependent, then I'm looking at a bit less headache.
And, yes, it's a bit OCD. That apparently is my middle name.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The MT ship design system is broken, the armour rules doubly so.
The best canonical description is the jump space article by MWM and what is written in T5.
Part of the requirements for a jump ship is a strong hull with a network of cables that create the jump field that protects the ship from coming into direct contact with the jump space dimension or hyperspace call it what you will.
According to T5 this will either by matching the contours of the ship or it will be a bubble that contains the ship depending on the exact type of drive you install.
The TAS News articles were spread over a couple of issues IIRC and they may have mentioned the damage caused to the ship because of direct contact with hyperspace.
The best canonical description is the jump space article by MWM and what is written in T5.
Part of the requirements for a jump ship is a strong hull with a network of cables that create the jump field that protects the ship from coming into direct contact with the jump space dimension or hyperspace call it what you will.
According to T5 this will either by matching the contours of the ship or it will be a bubble that contains the ship depending on the exact type of drive you install.
The TAS News articles were spread over a couple of issues IIRC and they may have mentioned the damage caused to the ship because of direct contact with hyperspace.
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Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Might the issue of the interaction of materials with jump space explain the need for a hydrogen bubble to surround the ship as insulation against jump space, with the bubble restrained by the field created by the jump cables and following the contours of the outer hull?
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
There is no hydrogen bubble surrounding the ship.
Which is to say, anything outside the grid (and to whatever distance beyond that it radiates the Jump field) gets sheared off at the edge of the bubble of normal space surrounding the ship. Even if the outer shell doesn't get partly dragged into Jumpspace, it likely gets shredded in the interface between normal space and the Jump field.
Two other issues:
First, at least in CT, an exterior shell is going to increase volume and decrease drive potentials. Under LBB2 this will hit HARD, bumping the hull size up to the next increment on the drive table.
Second, wouldn't this put the ship inside the 100D radius of the outer shell? I'm given to understand this is not desirable.
More and more reason to get T5 once I get a little spare cash. Sigh.
I could probably make MT work for me if I did some modification to it, but then it wouldn't be useful to anyone but me, so not really worthwhile.
This is also a problem for High Guard, though it only becomes apparent if you try to take fighters up against vehicles in ground combat. Fighters don't jump, of course, but that free 40 factors of armor at no volume cost makes them more formidable in ground combat than they probably have a right to be. By extension, that free armor is also being granted to unarmored ships, ergo those are jumping with slightly greater volumes than their descriptions actually declare. Again, I'm being a bit OCD; it's a White Whale thing.
I honestly have no idea. The shell has little mass compared to the ship proper, but I don't know if that makes any difference in the context of a ship essentially jumping out from inside of something, which is pretty clearly what's going to happen if I try to put a Whipple shield on outside of a ship's jump grid. Ought to make for some nice fireworks though.
I can't see a way to give a ship adequate radiation and micro-meteor protection without grabbing a bit of volume out of the craft, since the grid needs to be outside of all that. The modern answers seem to be combinations of polyethylene and other materials to give the best balance between stopping high-speed particles and stopping high-energy gamma, and those run several inches thick at minimum. (On the other hand, polyethylene is likely to behave more like the Book-2 hull than the Book-5 hull if it comes under fire, which is something to think about.)
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The folks at DGP who adapted Striker to designing ships made a few choices I would not have made, and several that were fixed by TNE FF&S. Armour is one of them.
If you know your hull volume, configuration and armour thickness then you can calculate how much hull volume is lost to armour. I do not understand why they opted not to do this for MT.
Have you looked at GT:ISW ship design system?
If you know your hull volume, configuration and armour thickness then you can calculate how much hull volume is lost to armour. I do not understand why they opted not to do this for MT.
Have you looked at GT:ISW ship design system?
And we have an explanation for the constant-volume (to 1000Td) 20Td bridge. A lot of that becomes the basic hull "armor", and it reduces as a percentage of volume as the ratio of surface area to volume decreases with size.
As I understand it, mass doesn't matter under the rules as written. It does under some versions of technobabble used to explain the 100D limit, though.
The problem with that is that it's only useful on the trip to Jump Limit. It won't be there for the trip from Jump Exit to the destination.
Makes for an interesting setting detail, though.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
If jumpspace is a two dimensional plane, than introducing a foreign bodylike a jump bubble, gets it squeezed out like a pimple along the route of least resistance.
Is Jumpspace a true two-dimensional space, or is it more a higher dimensional space with two extended dimensions plus (at least) one dimension of moderate size (somewhere between, say, 1 meter and 1+ AU?) and other "tiny" rolled up dimensions, as we see in some string theory physics?
BackworldTraveller
SOC-13
If the jump drive has a jump bubble of fixed radius R, what is the maximum r that can be fitted into it (as a ship) R-1m?
In any case, ships that create bubbles to jump are going to be spherical because volume is so expensive.
Grids conform to the hull so the shape doesn't matter so long as nothing sticks out too far. What is too far?
In any case, ships that create bubbles to jump are going to be spherical because volume is so expensive.
Grids conform to the hull so the shape doesn't matter so long as nothing sticks out too far. What is too far?
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Tee Five has a formula.
However, without the lanthanum grid, I'm pretty sure the default shape of the jumpsphere is spherish.
Dimensional squeeze might flatten it, velocity might give it a teardrop look.
However, without the lanthanum grid, I'm pretty sure the default shape of the jumpsphere is spherish.
Dimensional squeeze might flatten it, velocity might give it a teardrop look.
That's a function of the distance plot takes you. :rofl:
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Starships: Engineering, Jump Drive Physics and Physics in 4 Dimensions…How?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkHL1GNU18M
Jumping doesn't drop you down a rabbit hole, your starship just gains an extra dimension that both keeps you in the current Einsteinian universe but only interacts with gravitational forces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkHL1GNU18M
Jumping doesn't drop you down a rabbit hole, your starship just gains an extra dimension that both keeps you in the current Einsteinian universe but only interacts with gravitational forces.
