Islands Cluster
- Thread starter BMonnery
- Start date
Mr. Monnery,
Aside from the PGB errors carried forward from DGP's maps, the Regency Sourcebook (RSB) also inked a rather dismal description of the Islands. Many systems are dead or abandoned, a few host RQS bases, and every extent system has suffered drastic losses in both technology and population.
For reasons not explained, various wars between various worlds still sputter on despite the very real threat posed by Virus. A few systems in each subsector are specifically described as 'confrontation areas' with the forces of 2 or more different Island powers glaring at each other over Regency imposed DMZs.
Just as in Kipling's 'White Mans' Burden', the Regency forces in the Islands are despised by 'those ye guard' and have learned to loathe their charges in return. Regency civilians and military alike arrive in the Islands believing they can make a difference and leave convinced that the Islands are not worth the effort. It is strongly imlied that, if the threat of Virus was swept from the stars, the Regency would abandon the Islanders to themselves and their squabbles as quickly as possible.
The Islands of TNE - M:1200 are a very gloomy and 'bitter ender' type of place. I find that the fact that the Sourcebook was written about the same time Yugoslavia dissolved into its veil of blood and rapine very telling. The Islands were balkanized and TNE editors and writers imported the condition of the Balkans at their time into their depressing illustration of the Islands.
I set a majority of my Traveller campaigns in the Islands. My group was comprised of wargamers (grognards) who were playing an RPG and the Islands, thanks to TCS, were already familiar to us. When the FFW kicked off, we could not keep up with GDW's war news due to our deployments, so I shanghaied the campaign to the Islands where the 'story' could be controlled. DGP's otherwise excellent maps first killed my Islands first and the Regency Sourcebook buried the corpse.
All that being said, I truly enjoyed the Regency Sourcebook and would strongly encourage you to get a copy as soon as practible. Some have problems with how the Sword Worlds were protrayed in the RSB, just as I have problems with the Islands, but the RSB is just too good not to own.
Sincerely,
Larsen
Aside from the PGB errors carried forward from DGP's maps, the Regency Sourcebook (RSB) also inked a rather dismal description of the Islands. Many systems are dead or abandoned, a few host RQS bases, and every extent system has suffered drastic losses in both technology and population.
For reasons not explained, various wars between various worlds still sputter on despite the very real threat posed by Virus. A few systems in each subsector are specifically described as 'confrontation areas' with the forces of 2 or more different Island powers glaring at each other over Regency imposed DMZs.
Just as in Kipling's 'White Mans' Burden', the Regency forces in the Islands are despised by 'those ye guard' and have learned to loathe their charges in return. Regency civilians and military alike arrive in the Islands believing they can make a difference and leave convinced that the Islands are not worth the effort. It is strongly imlied that, if the threat of Virus was swept from the stars, the Regency would abandon the Islanders to themselves and their squabbles as quickly as possible.
The Islands of TNE - M:1200 are a very gloomy and 'bitter ender' type of place. I find that the fact that the Sourcebook was written about the same time Yugoslavia dissolved into its veil of blood and rapine very telling. The Islands were balkanized and TNE editors and writers imported the condition of the Balkans at their time into their depressing illustration of the Islands.
I set a majority of my Traveller campaigns in the Islands. My group was comprised of wargamers (grognards) who were playing an RPG and the Islands, thanks to TCS, were already familiar to us. When the FFW kicked off, we could not keep up with GDW's war news due to our deployments, so I shanghaied the campaign to the Islands where the 'story' could be controlled. DGP's otherwise excellent maps first killed my Islands first and the Regency Sourcebook buried the corpse.
All that being said, I truly enjoyed the Regency Sourcebook and would strongly encourage you to get a copy as soon as practible. Some have problems with how the Sword Worlds were protrayed in the RSB, just as I have problems with the Islands, but the RSB is just too good not to own.
Sincerely,
Larsen
daryen
SOC-14 1K
Just to amplify Larsen's comments:
I am not a TNE fan. (I still participate in TNE discussions, however, as like it or not, that is the OTU history.) I own exactly two pieces of TNE material: Survial Margin and the Regency Sourcebook. I got them for their OTU history. (I don't have the other sourcebooks, as I really don't consider the RC a relevant piece of OTU history.)
Whether you like TNE or what was done to your favorite planet or group, if you like the Spinward Marches, the Regency Sourcebook is required reading. It does two great things. By telling you HOW things got to 1200, you know where things were before 1200. And it makes some really salient points about previously established issues.
The second is really cool. From my perspective (of focusing on the Darrians), it points out how irrelevant the TL16 fleet really is. It also points out how hollow the threat of the Star Trigger is. Another interesting point is when it explains how the Jonkeereen geneering effort was a total failure.
So regardless of how you feel about TNE, the Regency Sourcebook is still a great resource.
I am not a TNE fan. (I still participate in TNE discussions, however, as like it or not, that is the OTU history.) I own exactly two pieces of TNE material: Survial Margin and the Regency Sourcebook. I got them for their OTU history. (I don't have the other sourcebooks, as I really don't consider the RC a relevant piece of OTU history.)
Whether you like TNE or what was done to your favorite planet or group, if you like the Spinward Marches, the Regency Sourcebook is required reading. It does two great things. By telling you HOW things got to 1200, you know where things were before 1200. And it makes some really salient points about previously established issues.
The second is really cool. From my perspective (of focusing on the Darrians), it points out how irrelevant the TL16 fleet really is. It also points out how hollow the threat of the Star Trigger is. Another interesting point is when it explains how the Jonkeereen geneering effort was a total failure.
So regardless of how you feel about TNE, the Regency Sourcebook is still a great resource.
I always thought the Darriens were sold a bit short in the RSB - assuming the Secret of the Star Trigger was discovered in the CT era (as per the adventure), it could with a degree of ingenuity make a viable weapon.
I would have preferred that TNE produced a Darrian renaissance rather than fold into nothing (somewhere GURPS seemed to be going). The Darrians were never really expanded upon in CT, the Star Trigger being the one good idea. It would have been nice to leave them open for a bit of expansion. However, under Herr Nilsen it was not to be as they might have got in the way of his overcontrolling plans for the RC.
I see from Thrash's post that he is still around - when was contact last had?
I would have preferred that TNE produced a Darrian renaissance rather than fold into nothing (somewhere GURPS seemed to be going). The Darrians were never really expanded upon in CT, the Star Trigger being the one good idea. It would have been nice to leave them open for a bit of expansion. However, under Herr Nilsen it was not to be as they might have got in the way of his overcontrolling plans for the RC.
I see from Thrash's post that he is still around - when was contact last had?
daryen
SOC-14 1K
The Star Trigger is a crap weapon. It is incredibly difficult to implement (requiring two, if not three, independently deploy ships that have to operate in coordination) and affects too large an area. If, for example, the Star Trigger was used on Gram, Cunnonic would be taken out, and Darrian and Jacent would be heavily affected. It is truly a weapon of last resort, not an offensive weapon.
The Darrians were always intended (from what I can see, anyway) to just be a static little Imperial client state, never to expand the borders of their subsector (well, expect for the three Entropic worlds). They were never intended to expand and there were never intended to be a problem (unlike the Sword Worlds).
In TNE, the Darrians could never have a true renaissance because it would interrupt the glory that was the Regency. In a way, the Darrians were very lucky that DN didn't just have them annexed by the Regency, like he did with the Sword Worlds and the Islands.
To go off-topic for a moment, even in GT, their renaissance is pretty hollow, as the only one who seemed to have any plans for them (MJD) doesn't do work for SJG anymore. I am very concerned that in the new Humaniti book, the renaissance will be dialed back. (I *hope* I am wrong!)
The Darrians were always intended (from what I can see, anyway) to just be a static little Imperial client state, never to expand the borders of their subsector (well, expect for the three Entropic worlds). They were never intended to expand and there were never intended to be a problem (unlike the Sword Worlds).
In TNE, the Darrians could never have a true renaissance because it would interrupt the glory that was the Regency. In a way, the Darrians were very lucky that DN didn't just have them annexed by the Regency, like he did with the Sword Worlds and the Islands.
To go off-topic for a moment, even in GT, their renaissance is pretty hollow, as the only one who seemed to have any plans for them (MJD) doesn't do work for SJG anymore. I am very concerned that in the new Humaniti book, the renaissance will be dialed back. (I *hope* I am wrong!)
"Whether you like TNE or what was done to your favorite planet or group, if you like the Spinward Marches, the Regency Sourcebook is required reading. It does two great things. By telling you HOW things got to 1200, you know where things were before 1200. And it makes some really salient points about previously established issues."
Sir,
Just let me 'ditto' that. The RSB is a wonderful sourcebook which definitely raised the bar for all others. What it did to folks' pet worlds and regions is beside the point. It's too damn good to pass up.
"The second is really cool. From my perspective (of focusing on the Darrians), it points out how irrelevant the TL16 fleet really is."
Another great bit. The truth was in HG2 for years and no one saw it(1). You see how the technology progressed and could interpolate whatever TL16 equipment wasn't presented. The vaunted Darrian Sooper-Dooper TL16 fleet is a paper lion, although the TL11/12 Swords should still be frightened of it.
"It also points out how hollow the threat of the Star Trigger is."
It's a suicide pact and, as you point out, a very hard to deploy suicide pact at that. Hit Sacnoth with it and you'll effect both your own space AND Imperial territory.
"Another interesting point is when it explains how the Jonkeereen geneering effort was a total failure."
A point which I dearly love thanks to the constant bemoaning over a 'lack' of OTU geneering. Creating the Jonkeereen simply created another minority group and all the troubles that come along with that. There was a fervent thread on JTAS recently over the use of geneering in GURPS Transhuman Space. One camp saw no need in re-engineering humans, for many of the same reasons presented in the Jonkeereen case, while others couldn't wait to sign up.
Use it to cure various diseases sure, but why make specialized 'orchid' people who can then only live in certain 'hothouse' enviromental niches? It sort of discounts our nature as tool makers and tool users.
Sincerely,
Larsen
1 - Or managed to publish what they saw!
Sir,
Just let me 'ditto' that. The RSB is a wonderful sourcebook which definitely raised the bar for all others. What it did to folks' pet worlds and regions is beside the point. It's too damn good to pass up.
"The second is really cool. From my perspective (of focusing on the Darrians), it points out how irrelevant the TL16 fleet really is."
Another great bit. The truth was in HG2 for years and no one saw it(1). You see how the technology progressed and could interpolate whatever TL16 equipment wasn't presented. The vaunted Darrian Sooper-Dooper TL16 fleet is a paper lion, although the TL11/12 Swords should still be frightened of it.
"It also points out how hollow the threat of the Star Trigger is."
It's a suicide pact and, as you point out, a very hard to deploy suicide pact at that. Hit Sacnoth with it and you'll effect both your own space AND Imperial territory.
"Another interesting point is when it explains how the Jonkeereen geneering effort was a total failure."
A point which I dearly love thanks to the constant bemoaning over a 'lack' of OTU geneering. Creating the Jonkeereen simply created another minority group and all the troubles that come along with that. There was a fervent thread on JTAS recently over the use of geneering in GURPS Transhuman Space. One camp saw no need in re-engineering humans, for many of the same reasons presented in the Jonkeereen case, while others couldn't wait to sign up.
Use it to cure various diseases sure, but why make specialized 'orchid' people who can then only live in certain 'hothouse' enviromental niches? It sort of discounts our nature as tool makers and tool users.
Sincerely,
Larsen
1 - Or managed to publish what they saw!
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
The RSB is indeed a treasure trove of data of OTU, and TNE relevant data (whether ya use it or not).
Mr Whipsnade,
this thread started with talk of the islands cluster, and since our URSULA campaign has a plot thread running to there (via Joyeuse, and the subsector Duke at Cyril), Might i pick your copious notes on this? Or at least your thoughts?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Now as many of our crew are members here, and we do have OTU as a backdrop to where we are currently (about 130's-1105), (That and several others in the campaign (both players, and the co-GM) have the Spinward marches campaign,--and I do not(alas), I'd like your thoughts on the plausibility of another cause for the 1106 kick off of the Reft States war (trillion credit squadron), that being of a proposed trade rte across the REFT thru the Islands subsectors from Imperial side (P) Moibin subsector, to BTC Imperial subsector (E) Usher.
And the possibility of say even those rumored MT era Megacorp rtes used to transmit data (which grew in importance after the codswallop of Corridor Sector falling to the massed alliance Vargr in 1117.(we are in agreement it is that, but then again, here we are regardless), being threatened by this war.
Another point to consider (and I am asking if its a valid one), what impact this might have had on Trade rtes thru Corridor (Carried by the Tukera LIC transport Giant of the Imperium), and its economic impact(if any) on those who had entrenched interests in keeping the Corridor route open, and would stand to lose if such a trade route opened, and became viable speeding news, goods, services thru the REFT, as opposed to around and thru Corridor into the Marches.
Obviously deep space refulling sites were needed for these, (and the RSB in retropsect gives a map of the Calibration Point sites which I might say served these and Imperial Reft fleet patrols once upon a time- a handwave since I do not have mny RSB any more- the fire took it in '96 with other hard notes I'd had). Deep site refuelling isn't unheard of, as TCS's states had to utilize it at their various tech levels, and given the steallar scarcity of the two warring subsectors.
Our plot line involves one of these "feeder fast rtes (J-5 or J-6) that "diagonally" runs from say (B) Macon subsector, across (C)Two Little subsector to the non-aligned system/state of Lemente (grid:1907) to the Droyne world of Zamoran (grid: 2108) down diagnoally further still to (D)Barker to the states of Arnorac (imp Cs & Naval base)& non aligned state of Gordon, then across into Gushmege's E ..
and the not-so secret discovery of an unmarked system around a dim star in GOME (once beliebved to be empty--this is a bit of our doing as GMs, Bryan and I, as a previous unknown race was discovered, and is being wiped out/ interdicted by the navy to allow traffic to go thru)..
Thats all for now, the last part, i admit, can wait some answering for you.
e-mail fer me is liamdevlin33@hotmail.com
slainte!
Mr Whipsnade,
this thread started with talk of the islands cluster, and since our URSULA campaign has a plot thread running to there (via Joyeuse, and the subsector Duke at Cyril), Might i pick your copious notes on this? Or at least your thoughts?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Now as many of our crew are members here, and we do have OTU as a backdrop to where we are currently (about 130's-1105), (That and several others in the campaign (both players, and the co-GM) have the Spinward marches campaign,--and I do not(alas), I'd like your thoughts on the plausibility of another cause for the 1106 kick off of the Reft States war (trillion credit squadron), that being of a proposed trade rte across the REFT thru the Islands subsectors from Imperial side (P) Moibin subsector, to BTC Imperial subsector (E) Usher.
And the possibility of say even those rumored MT era Megacorp rtes used to transmit data (which grew in importance after the codswallop of Corridor Sector falling to the massed alliance Vargr in 1117.(we are in agreement it is that, but then again, here we are regardless), being threatened by this war.
Obviously deep space refulling sites were needed for these, (and the RSB in retropsect gives a map of the Calibration Point sites which I might say served these and Imperial Reft fleet patrols once upon a time- a handwave since I do not have mny RSB any more- the fire took it in '96 with other hard notes I'd had). Deep site refuelling isn't unheard of, as TCS's states had to utilize it at their various tech levels, and given the steallar scarcity of the two warring subsectors.
Our plot line involves one of these "feeder fast rtes (J-5 or J-6) that "diagonally" runs from say (B) Macon subsector, across (C)Two Little subsector to the non-aligned system/state of Lemente (grid:1907) to the Droyne world of Zamoran (grid: 2108) down diagnoally further still to (D)Barker to the states of Arnorac (imp Cs & Naval base)& non aligned state of Gordon, then across into Gushmege's E ..
and the not-so secret discovery of an unmarked system around a dim star in GOME (once beliebved to be empty--this is a bit of our doing as GMs, Bryan and I, as a previous unknown race was discovered, and is being wiped out/ interdicted by the navy to allow traffic to go thru)..
Thats all for now, the last part, i admit, can wait some answering for you.
e-mail fer me is liamdevlin33@hotmail.com
slainte!
"This thread started with talk of the islands cluster, and since our URSULA campaign has a plot thread running to there (via Joyeuse, and the subsector Duke at Cyril), Might I pick your copious notes on this? Or at least your thoughts?"
Mr. Devlin,
Whew! That's a tall order and one I think I'll handle over a few sections, if you don't mind.
First, we'll need to talk about how TCS and the Islands Cluster 'fits' into the OTU as a whole. The short answer is: not very well. The long answer is... well, long!
HG2 came out while the OTU was young. Peruse the Three LBBs and you'll find nary a hint of the Third Imperium. LBB:4, Mercenaries, started to fill in the 3I and LBB:5, High Guard-2, continued the process. However, the 3I was still pretty nebulous in those days, there were no annotated maps of the entire empire, no complete lists of world names, none of the rich detail we pour over today. The tapestry was just starting to be woven. This when TCS came out. After all, a set of ship design and tactical combat rules should have a strategic follow-up, right?
The Islands were created as a backdrop for the strategic game and plopped down in someplace out of the way, in the middle of the Great Rift. After that, the Islands were pretty much left alone and nothing new was added to them. (which is one reason why lots of us LOVE to play in the Islands!) The body of Third Imperium lore continued to grow however and that growth impacted the Islands. It was if you'd hammered a nail for a clothesline into a young tree and then watched that tree grow around the nail until it could no longer be used for it's original purpose. The 3I and all it's canonical lore slowly grew around the the Islands, their setting, and the assumptions contained therein.
One way to explain this 'growing around' effect is to look at the assumptions regarding the Islands' position in the Great Rift. Early in the 3I's life placing them out there was good enough to explain the Islands' independence and isolation. After Ilelish and the Trojan Reach were detailed, having a cluster of independent worlds sandwiched between those two sectors; worlds that should be easily reached by the capabilities the 3I is said to possess, doesn't make much sense at all. It's as if the Imperium outgrew the original story behind the Islands.
During MT's run, I believe DGP tweaked the Islands' story somewhat in an attempt to make them 'fit' again. TCS flatly states that Islands can be reached by jump6 or by jump3 with tanks, DGP in their excellent sector maps increased that gap to 7 and 8 parsecs. Widening the gap between the Islands and Imperium either side of it made for a more plausible argument for Island independence and isolation. It also blew my Islands campaign to hell, but that's besides the point. I understood why it was done and made adjustments.
DGP's maps also showed the Islands in much greater detail than originally available. Some of this detail was very good and some of it was ill advised. Where TCS had only provided basic UWPs and notes about whether gas giant refueling or planetoid hulls were available, DGP presented complete PBG and stellar data. Most of the changes would only effect the various personal campaigns being played. The change to Esperanza however was canon shattering.
TCS not only handled HG2 strategic combat, it also had a 'tech level vs. numbers' component thrown in. Of the jump-capable systems, New Home had the highest TL available but a population level one factor below most of the others. Esperanza had the lowest TL of the jump-capable systems, but the highest population. DGP inflated Esperanza's population out of all proportion. Besides bringing into question how the Espies grew that fast in the time allotted, it also threw the play balance of TCS right out of the window. Ship building in TCS is a function of population. Esperanza's tens of billions could now simply out produce the other eight systems combined. It didn't matter that they were at a lower TL, they would merely swamp any opponents. Using DGP's new information meant that you could no longer play TCS without either leaving Esperanza out of the mix or modifying that system in some manner.
TNE's Regency Sourcebook carried forward most of MT/DGP's details about the Islands. IIRC, TNE used Virus and Hard Times as a handy explanation to correct some of the problems DGP inadvertantly created; i.e. Esperanza's population.
Well, that's enough background. Next post I'll drone on about the Islands IMTU. That stuff must be read with 'IMTU' firmly in mind. I don't know just how much can be used in other TUs, but I'll try and point out the differences between MTU and the OTU as they crop up.
Sincerely,
Larsen
Mr. Devlin,
Whew! That's a tall order and one I think I'll handle over a few sections, if you don't mind.
First, we'll need to talk about how TCS and the Islands Cluster 'fits' into the OTU as a whole. The short answer is: not very well. The long answer is... well, long!
HG2 came out while the OTU was young. Peruse the Three LBBs and you'll find nary a hint of the Third Imperium. LBB:4, Mercenaries, started to fill in the 3I and LBB:5, High Guard-2, continued the process. However, the 3I was still pretty nebulous in those days, there were no annotated maps of the entire empire, no complete lists of world names, none of the rich detail we pour over today. The tapestry was just starting to be woven. This when TCS came out. After all, a set of ship design and tactical combat rules should have a strategic follow-up, right?
The Islands were created as a backdrop for the strategic game and plopped down in someplace out of the way, in the middle of the Great Rift. After that, the Islands were pretty much left alone and nothing new was added to them. (which is one reason why lots of us LOVE to play in the Islands!) The body of Third Imperium lore continued to grow however and that growth impacted the Islands. It was if you'd hammered a nail for a clothesline into a young tree and then watched that tree grow around the nail until it could no longer be used for it's original purpose. The 3I and all it's canonical lore slowly grew around the the Islands, their setting, and the assumptions contained therein.
One way to explain this 'growing around' effect is to look at the assumptions regarding the Islands' position in the Great Rift. Early in the 3I's life placing them out there was good enough to explain the Islands' independence and isolation. After Ilelish and the Trojan Reach were detailed, having a cluster of independent worlds sandwiched between those two sectors; worlds that should be easily reached by the capabilities the 3I is said to possess, doesn't make much sense at all. It's as if the Imperium outgrew the original story behind the Islands.
During MT's run, I believe DGP tweaked the Islands' story somewhat in an attempt to make them 'fit' again. TCS flatly states that Islands can be reached by jump6 or by jump3 with tanks, DGP in their excellent sector maps increased that gap to 7 and 8 parsecs. Widening the gap between the Islands and Imperium either side of it made for a more plausible argument for Island independence and isolation. It also blew my Islands campaign to hell, but that's besides the point. I understood why it was done and made adjustments.
DGP's maps also showed the Islands in much greater detail than originally available. Some of this detail was very good and some of it was ill advised. Where TCS had only provided basic UWPs and notes about whether gas giant refueling or planetoid hulls were available, DGP presented complete PBG and stellar data. Most of the changes would only effect the various personal campaigns being played. The change to Esperanza however was canon shattering.
TCS not only handled HG2 strategic combat, it also had a 'tech level vs. numbers' component thrown in. Of the jump-capable systems, New Home had the highest TL available but a population level one factor below most of the others. Esperanza had the lowest TL of the jump-capable systems, but the highest population. DGP inflated Esperanza's population out of all proportion. Besides bringing into question how the Espies grew that fast in the time allotted, it also threw the play balance of TCS right out of the window. Ship building in TCS is a function of population. Esperanza's tens of billions could now simply out produce the other eight systems combined. It didn't matter that they were at a lower TL, they would merely swamp any opponents. Using DGP's new information meant that you could no longer play TCS without either leaving Esperanza out of the mix or modifying that system in some manner.
TNE's Regency Sourcebook carried forward most of MT/DGP's details about the Islands. IIRC, TNE used Virus and Hard Times as a handy explanation to correct some of the problems DGP inadvertantly created; i.e. Esperanza's population.
Well, that's enough background. Next post I'll drone on about the Islands IMTU. That stuff must be read with 'IMTU' firmly in mind. I don't know just how much can be used in other TUs, but I'll try and point out the differences between MTU and the OTU as they crop up.
Sincerely,
Larsen
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
MR Whipsnade- thank you for the preamble! (I do tend to ask posin questions round here, and never a short answwered one, generally!).
I like yer nail in the young tree imagery (well, heck, I write, and Gm, so I have delusions of poetry every now and again indulged by bein a bard in the SCA)!!!
I understand the J-6 and sudden changes to the TCS stuff. THATS not going to affect us as much as which astrographical Starmap version of the REFT sector we utilize as "canon" for game purposes.
I firmly believe we'll stick as close to the TCS outcome/ main conflict a it crosses our plotline-but we're lookin at an empty subsector that suddenly isn't so empty after all (we placed a very dim M-class star with a sole gas giant in it--one of its moons is a habitable world-And what lives upon it is the crux of a very long epic adventure we've embarked upon..a sentient race hitherto unknown until 1101..(we're in 130's of 1105).
But I'll wait till ye get to part 2, 3, & 4!
I like yer nail in the young tree imagery (well, heck, I write, and Gm, so I have delusions of poetry every now and again indulged by bein a bard in the SCA)!!!
I understand the J-6 and sudden changes to the TCS stuff. THATS not going to affect us as much as which astrographical Starmap version of the REFT sector we utilize as "canon" for game purposes.
I firmly believe we'll stick as close to the TCS outcome/ main conflict a it crosses our plotline-but we're lookin at an empty subsector that suddenly isn't so empty after all (we placed a very dim M-class star with a sole gas giant in it--one of its moons is a habitable world-And what lives upon it is the crux of a very long epic adventure we've embarked upon..a sentient race hitherto unknown until 1101..(we're in 130's of 1105).
But I'll wait till ye get to part 2, 3, & 4!
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Shameless bump to draw Mr Whipsnade's attention of 11 days ago..
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Are you a moron? No! just very busy, like all of us..I await part two, or whichever ye're serving up!
Gentlemen,
Again, my apologies for completely 'spacing' this thread. As promised, more Islands info.
Various Niggling Details: OTU Islands vs. MTU Islands
As I mentioned much earlier, both MT and TNE added many details to the sketchy CT information regarding the Islands. MT and TNE also changed a few details too. The Islands I had slapped together for MTU didn't quite fit the MT/TNE version, so I adopted some things and ignored others. I kept nearly all of the MT/TNE additions and changes:
- Stellar information (none provided in TCS)
- PBG information (with two BIG exceptions)
- The 7 to 8 parsec gap between Islands and Imperium (rather than the 6 parsec gap specified in TCS)
What I didn't keep boils down to two big exceptions.
A - The number of gas giants in the St. Genevieve system. I do not remember offhand the MT/TNE PGB number, but it was more than one. IMTU, the St. Genevieve system has only ONE gas giant.
This greatly effects the situation in the Old Islands Subsector. Look at the position of St. Genevieve and look at the positions of Amondiage, Neubayern, and Sansterre. Then repeat jump3 and jump fuel to yourself. Any gears beginning to grind yet?
2 - The PGB population multiplier listed for Esperanza. It is apparent that whomever came up with the Esperanzan population multiplier in MT NEVER played TCS. IMTU, Esperanza hosts a population of 'only' ten billion.
In TCS, starship building is merely a function of population. If you have a sufficient TL to build jump drives and you have a class A port, the more hands you have the more ships you can build. Period.
TCS also tried to point out how TL can be a force multiplier. The system with the highest TL, New Home, also as the lowest population of any major power. The major power with the greatest population, Esperanza, has the lowest TL of the starfaring systems. TCS campaigns would have New Home's small, high TL fleet, facing off against Esperanza's horde of lo-tech vessels.
MT's pop-multiplier changed all that.
Rather than a population of 'A', 10 billions, Esperanza suddenly had a population in the TENS of billions. Before, the population of the other major Island systems taken as a whole could reach ~70% of Esperanza's population. Now, the Cluster's non-Esperanzan population only added up to less than 20% of Esperanza's. Tech level no longer meant a thing, Esperanza could simply swamp all the other powers combined.
So that's pretty much the only differences between MTU's Islands and the OTU's Islands. Next, 'Four Cultures, Not Three' and the 'Great ESA STL Colony Ship Race'! Woo-hoo!
Sincerely,
Larsen
Again, my apologies for completely 'spacing' this thread. As promised, more Islands info.
Various Niggling Details: OTU Islands vs. MTU Islands
As I mentioned much earlier, both MT and TNE added many details to the sketchy CT information regarding the Islands. MT and TNE also changed a few details too. The Islands I had slapped together for MTU didn't quite fit the MT/TNE version, so I adopted some things and ignored others. I kept nearly all of the MT/TNE additions and changes:
- Stellar information (none provided in TCS)
- PBG information (with two BIG exceptions)
- The 7 to 8 parsec gap between Islands and Imperium (rather than the 6 parsec gap specified in TCS)
What I didn't keep boils down to two big exceptions.
A - The number of gas giants in the St. Genevieve system. I do not remember offhand the MT/TNE PGB number, but it was more than one. IMTU, the St. Genevieve system has only ONE gas giant.
This greatly effects the situation in the Old Islands Subsector. Look at the position of St. Genevieve and look at the positions of Amondiage, Neubayern, and Sansterre. Then repeat jump3 and jump fuel to yourself. Any gears beginning to grind yet?
2 - The PGB population multiplier listed for Esperanza. It is apparent that whomever came up with the Esperanzan population multiplier in MT NEVER played TCS. IMTU, Esperanza hosts a population of 'only' ten billion.
In TCS, starship building is merely a function of population. If you have a sufficient TL to build jump drives and you have a class A port, the more hands you have the more ships you can build. Period.
TCS also tried to point out how TL can be a force multiplier. The system with the highest TL, New Home, also as the lowest population of any major power. The major power with the greatest population, Esperanza, has the lowest TL of the starfaring systems. TCS campaigns would have New Home's small, high TL fleet, facing off against Esperanza's horde of lo-tech vessels.
MT's pop-multiplier changed all that.
Rather than a population of 'A', 10 billions, Esperanza suddenly had a population in the TENS of billions. Before, the population of the other major Island systems taken as a whole could reach ~70% of Esperanza's population. Now, the Cluster's non-Esperanzan population only added up to less than 20% of Esperanza's. Tech level no longer meant a thing, Esperanza could simply swamp all the other powers combined.
So that's pretty much the only differences between MTU's Islands and the OTU's Islands. Next, 'Four Cultures, Not Three' and the 'Great ESA STL Colony Ship Race'! Woo-hoo!
Sincerely,
Larsen
Gentlemen,
The madness continues...
Four Cultures, Not Three
CT's TCS adventure says that space aboard the three ESA STL colony ships was divvied up according to nationality, with one vessel carrying English colonists, another only Frenchmen, and the third just Germans.
IMTU's Islands, the colonists aboard those three vessels didn't fit into neat packages with national labels. There were plenty of other people from many other places. The names of the various systems in the Cluster bear me out on this. EU countries other than the three named had contingents aboard the colony ships.
Very roughly speaking, the 'British' ship contained colonists from both the British Isles and the British Commonwealth. The 'French' vessel had colonists from across the francophone world; Quebec, West Africa, Indochina, Polynesia, etc. The 'German' vessel included many Scandinavians and 'middle' Europeans. Each vessel also carried small numbers of colonists from other EU member states. The colonists shipped out from Sol were a polygot, not just Brits, French, and Germans.
TCS also mentions that upon arrival in the Cluster the crews of the colony ships decided not to settle on the worlds below with their frozen charges and instead returned to the deep space, STL life of exploration they'd always known. These wandering STL crews quickly found and settled Serendip Belt. This is the 'Fourth' culture I'm babbling about; everyone descended from the various belters, spacers, and shuttle jockeys who were recruited to man the vessels carrying the frozen colonists. While the people who colonized Amondiage, Neubayern, and New Home were they same people who had bordered the STL vessels at Sol, each ship's crew were the distant and direct descendents of the initial crew who had left Sol.
So, four initial, major cultures and not three; British, French, German, and Belter. The first three listed might not like the idea, but there really were four big cultures aboard the mission.
The Great STL Colony Ship Race
Look at Amondiage compared to Neubayern or New Home. It isn't a very attractive world, rather barren with a low hydrographics rating. Amondiage is not even attractive when compared to many other worlds in the Cluster. So why was Amondiage one of the initial three worlds colonized? And ponder these odd facts too; Of the three initially colonized worlds, Amondiage is closest to Sol and yet was settled last. Why did 'Voyageur' choose Amondiage and why so late?
My goofy 'answer' to part of this puzzle is that 'Voyageur' really had no choice in the matter at all. They got 'stuck' with Amondiage because the other two systems had already been claimed by 'C-Jammer' and 'Van de Lubbe'. Those other and better systems ended up being claimed because the other two STL ships got to them first. 'Voyageur', and the colonists aboard her, somehow lost a race and had to settle for third place; Amondiage.
TCS states that computers aboard the ESA vessels 'locked onto' the Islands Cluster as a colonization target 'early' in the voyage. Thus, the ESA hadn't dispatched the mission to the Islands, the Islands were somehow surveyed and chosen after the mission left Sol. I believe this may answer the other question regarding Amondiage; why was it settled first, before better worlds in the same subsector like St. Denis, Sansterre, or Colchis.
The ESA vessel targetted the Cluster early in their voyage and performed a survey of prospective colony worlds then, at what must have been a great distance. For whatever reasons, only three systems out those that could be surveyed at that distance; Neubayern, New Home, and Amondiage, met the criteria for colonization. 'Voyageur' didn't aim for St. Denis or Colchis because she didn't know enough about those systems to risk ending her mission there. Amondiage was simply all that 'Voyageur' knew about and that system was her only choice when she lagged behind the other two vessels.
So, 'Voyageur' somehow ended up with the short end of the stick. Despite the fact that all three vessels left the Sol system pretty much at the same time and despite the fact that all three vessels pooled their sensor resources to choose the Islands as a target and select prospective colony sites there, 'Voyageur' lost out. 'C-Jammer' and 'Van der Lubbe' got to the Cluster first and had their pick of the three known colony systems. 'Voyageur' arrived last and got stuck with the consolation prize; Amondiage.
Why did 'Voyageur' lose out? Beats me. Perhaps her drive was just a few tenths of a percentage less efficient than the others. Something like that could add up over the +2000 year flight time of the mission. Perhaps her radiation shielding was suspect and she needed to keep below a certain fraction of c while the others didn't have that worry. Like I said, I don't know why 'Voyageur' lost, all I do know is that she did.
Next up, thumbnail descriptions of the eight major powers in the Cluster. Yes, I know I know, reducing the billions of people on a single world to a few paragraphs is iditotic. Fortunately, I'm just the idiot to do it.
Sincerely,
Larsen
The madness continues...
Four Cultures, Not Three
CT's TCS adventure says that space aboard the three ESA STL colony ships was divvied up according to nationality, with one vessel carrying English colonists, another only Frenchmen, and the third just Germans.
IMTU's Islands, the colonists aboard those three vessels didn't fit into neat packages with national labels. There were plenty of other people from many other places. The names of the various systems in the Cluster bear me out on this. EU countries other than the three named had contingents aboard the colony ships.
Very roughly speaking, the 'British' ship contained colonists from both the British Isles and the British Commonwealth. The 'French' vessel had colonists from across the francophone world; Quebec, West Africa, Indochina, Polynesia, etc. The 'German' vessel included many Scandinavians and 'middle' Europeans. Each vessel also carried small numbers of colonists from other EU member states. The colonists shipped out from Sol were a polygot, not just Brits, French, and Germans.
TCS also mentions that upon arrival in the Cluster the crews of the colony ships decided not to settle on the worlds below with their frozen charges and instead returned to the deep space, STL life of exploration they'd always known. These wandering STL crews quickly found and settled Serendip Belt. This is the 'Fourth' culture I'm babbling about; everyone descended from the various belters, spacers, and shuttle jockeys who were recruited to man the vessels carrying the frozen colonists. While the people who colonized Amondiage, Neubayern, and New Home were they same people who had bordered the STL vessels at Sol, each ship's crew were the distant and direct descendents of the initial crew who had left Sol.
So, four initial, major cultures and not three; British, French, German, and Belter. The first three listed might not like the idea, but there really were four big cultures aboard the mission.
The Great STL Colony Ship Race
Look at Amondiage compared to Neubayern or New Home. It isn't a very attractive world, rather barren with a low hydrographics rating. Amondiage is not even attractive when compared to many other worlds in the Cluster. So why was Amondiage one of the initial three worlds colonized? And ponder these odd facts too; Of the three initially colonized worlds, Amondiage is closest to Sol and yet was settled last. Why did 'Voyageur' choose Amondiage and why so late?
My goofy 'answer' to part of this puzzle is that 'Voyageur' really had no choice in the matter at all. They got 'stuck' with Amondiage because the other two systems had already been claimed by 'C-Jammer' and 'Van de Lubbe'. Those other and better systems ended up being claimed because the other two STL ships got to them first. 'Voyageur', and the colonists aboard her, somehow lost a race and had to settle for third place; Amondiage.
TCS states that computers aboard the ESA vessels 'locked onto' the Islands Cluster as a colonization target 'early' in the voyage. Thus, the ESA hadn't dispatched the mission to the Islands, the Islands were somehow surveyed and chosen after the mission left Sol. I believe this may answer the other question regarding Amondiage; why was it settled first, before better worlds in the same subsector like St. Denis, Sansterre, or Colchis.
The ESA vessel targetted the Cluster early in their voyage and performed a survey of prospective colony worlds then, at what must have been a great distance. For whatever reasons, only three systems out those that could be surveyed at that distance; Neubayern, New Home, and Amondiage, met the criteria for colonization. 'Voyageur' didn't aim for St. Denis or Colchis because she didn't know enough about those systems to risk ending her mission there. Amondiage was simply all that 'Voyageur' knew about and that system was her only choice when she lagged behind the other two vessels.
So, 'Voyageur' somehow ended up with the short end of the stick. Despite the fact that all three vessels left the Sol system pretty much at the same time and despite the fact that all three vessels pooled their sensor resources to choose the Islands as a target and select prospective colony sites there, 'Voyageur' lost out. 'C-Jammer' and 'Van der Lubbe' got to the Cluster first and had their pick of the three known colony systems. 'Voyageur' arrived last and got stuck with the consolation prize; Amondiage.
Why did 'Voyageur' lose out? Beats me. Perhaps her drive was just a few tenths of a percentage less efficient than the others. Something like that could add up over the +2000 year flight time of the mission. Perhaps her radiation shielding was suspect and she needed to keep below a certain fraction of c while the others didn't have that worry. Like I said, I don't know why 'Voyageur' lost, all I do know is that she did.
Next up, thumbnail descriptions of the eight major powers in the Cluster. Yes, I know I know, reducing the billions of people on a single world to a few paragraphs is iditotic. Fortunately, I'm just the idiot to do it.
Sincerely,
Larsen
Uh...huh?
Without using pop multipliers, total 16.1B
Es: 10B (62%)
Sb: 1B (6%)
Nc: 1B (6%)
Jo: 1B (6%)
Nb: 1B (6%)
Nh: .1B (0.6%)
Sa: 1B (6%)
Am: 1B (6%)
With pop multipliers: 49.8B
Es: 30B (60%)
Sb: 5B (10%)
Nc: 1B (2%)
Jo: 4B (8%)
Nb: 6B (12%)
Nh: .8B(1.6%)
Sa: 2B (4%)
Am: 1B (2%)
Using pop multipliers doesn't make Esperanza any stronger than it already was. Mostly, what it does is scramble the balance between the other powers. It's particularly painful for New Colchis, which is not only 1/3 as powerful before, but all of its neighbors are strong.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Anthony--To illustrate Mr Whipsnade's & Mr.Thrash's points on St. Genevieve & Esperanza.
DED's Sectors page shows in ReftTNE-above/MT-below)http://www.panpub.com/traveller/sectors/reft/
St. Genevieve4603668 De Ni Lo A104 Re M4V
C460100A S M De Ni Lo 404 Na
Esperanza:A674ABCA N Hi In 403 Re F9V M2D
A674ABCB N Hi In 303 Es
As you can see, 30billions at time of TCS camapign can overwhelm the subsector/ and eventually the Two subsectors unless drastic measures versus them were taken (ala "Nuke em till they glowed"). Therefore for balance sake, and minimum fuss, 10billion keeps em in check, and the pop UWP at A.
DED's Sectors page shows in Reft
TNE-above/MT-below)http://www.panpub.com/traveller/sectors/reft/St. Genevieve
4603668 De Ni Lo A104 Re M4VC460100A S M De Ni Lo 404 Na
Esperanza:A674ABCA N Hi In 403 Re F9V M2D
A674ABCB N Hi In 303 Es
As you can see, 30billions at time of TCS camapign can overwhelm the subsector/ and eventually the Two subsectors unless drastic measures versus them were taken (ala "Nuke em till they glowed"). Therefore for balance sake, and minimum fuss, 10billion keeps em in check, and the pop UWP at A.
Gentlemen,
I have been remiss in explaining the actual nature of the goofy, Whipsnadian materials I've been sharing. That is bumf is most certainly NOT a carefully researched, logically constructed Islands setting. Instead, it grew over time, much like the OTU did. Because of this, there will be whopping holes, goofs, gaffes, and downright implausibilities.
If there's something you don't like or something that makes no sense, ignore it. After all, I'm not mandating this material for use in any Islands campaign, I'm merely sharing bits and pieces of the many Islands campaigns I've run.
The first iteration was the TCS information passed through LBB:6 with all the stellar evolution and habitable world problems using the 'Scouts' sysgen rules entail. Every revision afterwards (until the last, which I'll explain)kept the LBB:6 derived data, even though LBB:6 can produce nonsensical systems.
I know I mentioned using TNE's data, but in truth MTU's Islands use Mr. Thrash's stellar and system data. His ideas about how and why the first colony systems were selected and (for the most part) how and why the daughter colonies were founded make sense to me. They were also very easy to fit into place which made them even better to use. Mr. Thrash had been kind enough to share his data and ideas with me last year. However, any reference to that data by ME, and not the gentleman who actually created it, would have been completely out of line. Hence, my references to the TNE data even though I no longer used that data.
Whatever the reason or the source, in MTU's Islands, St. Genevieve has one gas giant, Esperanza has a population of 'only' 10 billion, and the descendents of the original Admondiage colonists 'believe' that their ancestors got a raw deal from the other two ESA colony vessels. Those three bits make the history and societies of MTU's Islands work, everything else is can be negotiated.
Sincerely,
Larsen
I have been remiss in explaining the actual nature of the goofy, Whipsnadian materials I've been sharing. That is bumf is most certainly NOT a carefully researched, logically constructed Islands setting. Instead, it grew over time, much like the OTU did. Because of this, there will be whopping holes, goofs, gaffes, and downright implausibilities.
If there's something you don't like or something that makes no sense, ignore it. After all, I'm not mandating this material for use in any Islands campaign, I'm merely sharing bits and pieces of the many Islands campaigns I've run.
The first iteration was the TCS information passed through LBB:6 with all the stellar evolution and habitable world problems using the 'Scouts' sysgen rules entail. Every revision afterwards (until the last, which I'll explain)kept the LBB:6 derived data, even though LBB:6 can produce nonsensical systems.
I know I mentioned using TNE's data, but in truth MTU's Islands use Mr. Thrash's stellar and system data. His ideas about how and why the first colony systems were selected and (for the most part) how and why the daughter colonies were founded make sense to me. They were also very easy to fit into place which made them even better to use. Mr. Thrash had been kind enough to share his data and ideas with me last year. However, any reference to that data by ME, and not the gentleman who actually created it, would have been completely out of line. Hence, my references to the TNE data even though I no longer used that data.
Whatever the reason or the source, in MTU's Islands, St. Genevieve has one gas giant, Esperanza has a population of 'only' 10 billion, and the descendents of the original Admondiage colonists 'believe' that their ancestors got a raw deal from the other two ESA colony vessels. Those three bits make the history and societies of MTU's Islands work, everything else is can be negotiated.
Sincerely,
Larsen
I hate to derail this great conversation, even if only for a moment, but could someone briefly explain more about the flaws in Book 6? I'm working on my own little J1 cluster (The Raweh Track) and was planning on using Book 6 to flesh out some of the system details. I've only been playing Traveller since the reprints started coming out, so I'm a little behind the curve on some things.
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