Interstellar Banking
- Thread starter R_Kane
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S
Sophiathegreen
Guest
Coins make out of valueable metal like Silver, gold and the other two limit the government ability to inflate the money supply by printing more paper money. To inflate the coin supply you would have to lower the purely of the coin which can be detected easy. That why government donot like than percure metal coinage system at all. People distrust any electronic code money. It than person want to buy playboy like magine it none of the government bussienes.
There are multiple historic methods that can be used to transfer money\risks\payments etc.
- Letter of Credit;
- Solid Assets;
- Local banks;
- Barter;
- loan;
- etc.
Trade is a function of trust. A noble family with legal accreditation and proof of land ownersnip or quantifiable assets will be able to buy stuff from an high level society. PROVIDED the society has a comparable financial system, etc. (Egalitism and nobility do not mix
)
For the bank owned traveller ship, you do not pay monthly bills like we do cars. It is not feasible as a system. It's more of an investment. They OWN a part of the ship and will warrant a part of the profit.
If it goes well, they will give further aid to the ship in the form of cargo runs, special trade "fleet" even protection. If it's a small piece of crap and profits are low, they will try to get more shares in the ship by evil accountant methods.
- Letter of Credit;
- Solid Assets;
- Local banks;
- Barter;
- loan;
- etc.
Trade is a function of trust. A noble family with legal accreditation and proof of land ownersnip or quantifiable assets will be able to buy stuff from an high level society. PROVIDED the society has a comparable financial system, etc. (Egalitism and nobility do not mix
For the bank owned traveller ship, you do not pay monthly bills like we do cars. It is not feasible as a system. It's more of an investment. They OWN a part of the ship and will warrant a part of the profit.
If it goes well, they will give further aid to the ship in the form of cargo runs, special trade "fleet" even protection. If it's a small piece of crap and profits are low, they will try to get more shares in the ship by evil accountant methods.
Its really difficult to have credit cards or debit cards in the Traveller universe. Someone mentioned that the use of precious metals was a little too D&Dish. Well electronic money is not a viable option Imperium-wide. One time when I was younger I refereed a game where a player stole the Emperor's Credit card, he bought all sorts of things with it before it was cancelled. It seems to me, now in retrospect that the Emperor wouldn't carry such a thing, it would take too long to withdraw funds from the Imperial Bank at the capital and the Emperor, in the spinward marches for example, would have to wait over a year after the card was swiped through the machine for the X-boat relays to send this transaction all the way to the Imperial Bank at the capital to update his account and another year to send the approval of this transaction by X-boat relay back to the credit card machine. On the other hand if the accound information was carried on the card itself, it would be just like cash and impossible to cancel. So the thief who stole the Emperor's credit card could indeed by himself a fleet of starships with it.
S
Sophiathegreen
Guest
What about the Imperium haveing a base on a tech level 1 or 2 world which want imperium protection and what will the people base at the base use when they visit the nearest town or city on leave, cannot use electron money no electric power and computer network system, same for credit and debt card, the local donot trust paper money but use silver and gold coins so the imperium issue they own silver and gold coin plus the imperium use that
money to buy local food and some local raw material
for it own use.
mad13142000
SOC-13
Part of the thing about landing at a Starport is the ability to tranfer Electronic Funds (My datacard creditchip whatever) to local or imperial hard currency. If you land, you convert to interact, then reconvert the leftover and you're off to the next planet. This is pretty much how we do it on Earth. The only difference would be your Debit Card would have to be a 'Smartcard' and have all your available credit on-chip since there is a definite timelag on communications. When I was in Guatemala, nobody had a problem taking my Mastercard or American dollars. Dollars were better than local currence, and the Mastercard just held my transactions until a certain date and converted them back from local to US $$ based on the day's Dollar price on the international exchange.
So, I land my ship, take out my Imperial CreditChip and buy a few local Florins to do my trade. The Starport authority converts to Cr and adds a sutible fee (.5%?) and deducts it from my Chip's running total....
-MADDog
So, I land my ship, take out my Imperial CreditChip and buy a few local Florins to do my trade. The Starport authority converts to Cr and adds a sutible fee (.5%?) and deducts it from my Chip's running total....
-MADDog
Antares Administration
SOC-12
Lots of great points being made!
From all of the canon that I've seen, the simple explanation is that there is no SINGLE system.
In financial terms, the time delay inherent in interstellar travel creates RISK. The risk is dealt with in different ways for different entities.
A planetary government or megacorporation or noble will have a credit history that is known to individuals and corporations within his sphere of influence. Those entities will, as a matter of course, extend credit for a fee. If, for example, the Duke of Regina wanted to borrow money while visiting Darrian, he would either have:
a. Transferred assets - credits (real or electronic, direct (his own) or indirect (draft from some financial entity)), or
b. Real items like goods, metals, valuable luxury items or whatever.
Those assets would either be sent or arranged ahead of the visit, travel with him, or be settled afterward based on the RISK inherent in dealing financially with the Duke. The key is that it would have been whatever is appropriate for the destination(s). That could be a case of whisky on a TL4 world, a portable fusion generator on a TL9 world, or an electronic wallet with active credit/debit on a TL12 world.
This sphere of influence could be local, regional, planetary, sub-sector, sector, domain or state-wide.
Once you are outside your personal sphere of influence, you no longer have an available credit history. You are therefore a greater risk. You must then travel with something of value like actual assets, or the credit of some entity that does have influence in the area you are in. Relying on someone else's influence is the key. It's the way modern banking works. I don't know the guy from another city that I sell something to, but if he has a TAS membership or an account with an megacorp, a bearer bond, or a letter of credit from the Duke of Regina, I do know those entities. They all have credit histories that reduce risk.
Now let's scale it down to a free trader, or a party of travellers. After alot of hard work, a merchant will have developed a reputation on the worlds which he visits. PLEASE NOTE: this can be good or bad. If you tick off the financial authorities on a world, the increases your risk, possibly to the point where they won't do business with you.
Where you have a reputation, you will probably be able to borrow, for a fee, against your Credit Rating, or trade real goods at preferred rates. If you're on a new world, you either:
a. are dealing with a local institution or individual who has access to your reputation/credit rating (you are therefore operating within your sphere of influence),
b. are travelling with the local equivalent of a financial instrument, bearer bond or letter of credit that the world you are visiting recognizes, i.e. you are making use of someone else's sphere of influence). This is the premise behind the Imperial Credit, or
c. are carrying goods that have value on that world.
What would traveller's have?
Visiting Low Tech - Here the key is physical form. Some examples are precious stones or metals, local currency (acquired off-world), art objects, masterwork items for that tech level, attractive trading goods, a bearer bond or letter (actual) of credit from an authority recognized by the world. Note that some low tech worlds will be sophisticated enough to accept Imperial Credits if they take physical form (like a letter of credit),
Visiting Mid and High Tech - as above, as well as scientific and tech items sustainable on that world, and intangible assets (knowledge and electronic funds).
Paul Nemeth
AA
From all of the canon that I've seen, the simple explanation is that there is no SINGLE system.
In financial terms, the time delay inherent in interstellar travel creates RISK. The risk is dealt with in different ways for different entities.
A planetary government or megacorporation or noble will have a credit history that is known to individuals and corporations within his sphere of influence. Those entities will, as a matter of course, extend credit for a fee. If, for example, the Duke of Regina wanted to borrow money while visiting Darrian, he would either have:
a. Transferred assets - credits (real or electronic, direct (his own) or indirect (draft from some financial entity)), or
b. Real items like goods, metals, valuable luxury items or whatever.
Those assets would either be sent or arranged ahead of the visit, travel with him, or be settled afterward based on the RISK inherent in dealing financially with the Duke. The key is that it would have been whatever is appropriate for the destination(s). That could be a case of whisky on a TL4 world, a portable fusion generator on a TL9 world, or an electronic wallet with active credit/debit on a TL12 world.
This sphere of influence could be local, regional, planetary, sub-sector, sector, domain or state-wide.
Once you are outside your personal sphere of influence, you no longer have an available credit history. You are therefore a greater risk. You must then travel with something of value like actual assets, or the credit of some entity that does have influence in the area you are in. Relying on someone else's influence is the key. It's the way modern banking works. I don't know the guy from another city that I sell something to, but if he has a TAS membership or an account with an megacorp, a bearer bond, or a letter of credit from the Duke of Regina, I do know those entities. They all have credit histories that reduce risk.
Now let's scale it down to a free trader, or a party of travellers. After alot of hard work, a merchant will have developed a reputation on the worlds which he visits. PLEASE NOTE: this can be good or bad. If you tick off the financial authorities on a world, the increases your risk, possibly to the point where they won't do business with you.
Where you have a reputation, you will probably be able to borrow, for a fee, against your Credit Rating, or trade real goods at preferred rates. If you're on a new world, you either:
a. are dealing with a local institution or individual who has access to your reputation/credit rating (you are therefore operating within your sphere of influence),
b. are travelling with the local equivalent of a financial instrument, bearer bond or letter of credit that the world you are visiting recognizes, i.e. you are making use of someone else's sphere of influence). This is the premise behind the Imperial Credit, or
c. are carrying goods that have value on that world.
What would traveller's have?
Visiting Low Tech - Here the key is physical form. Some examples are precious stones or metals, local currency (acquired off-world), art objects, masterwork items for that tech level, attractive trading goods, a bearer bond or letter (actual) of credit from an authority recognized by the world. Note that some low tech worlds will be sophisticated enough to accept Imperial Credits if they take physical form (like a letter of credit),
Visiting Mid and High Tech - as above, as well as scientific and tech items sustainable on that world, and intangible assets (knowledge and electronic funds).
Paul Nemeth
AA
Antares Administration
SOC-12
There's a whole line of business that deals with trading in risk. It's called arbitrage. That's where you buy and sell assets/credit/debt between markets in order to make money on the differences in risk. When you hear about a furniture store no payments for a year, the furniture store is probably selling your contract to a third party at a discount, and the third party is the one collecting your payments and assuming the risk. The furniture store reduces its risk in exchange for less money immediately.
If I'm a trader visiting a low tech world, and I'm approached by a guy with a TAS card but nothing of local value, I trade my case of jewels to him, at a premium price, because I know that his credit is good for it on a higher tech world (or a low tech world with a TAS office). The next time I go to one of those worlds, I exchange the credit for a profit. That's arbitrage, and it's one very likely way that influential travellers can make money.
Paul Nemeth
AA
If I'm a trader visiting a low tech world, and I'm approached by a guy with a TAS card but nothing of local value, I trade my case of jewels to him, at a premium price, because I know that his credit is good for it on a higher tech world (or a low tech world with a TAS office). The next time I go to one of those worlds, I exchange the credit for a profit. That's arbitrage, and it's one very likely way that influential travellers can make money.
Paul Nemeth
AA
You'll gronades out there might remember the old JTAS article by someone called Leroy ????. Anywat cash was carried on chipped cards that recorded credits and debits (a walk-with-you current account). This got over the parsec problem.
I remember reading about 16th-17th C international trade. Basically the banker's documentary credit or bearer bond (i.e I promise to pay the bearer) was a big way of transfering money internationally. X would go vist Mr Fuger in London, who would give a documentary credit for £10,000 + a fee. He would sail to Venice and cash the bond there in Fuger's bank. IMO this is a way international credit can work in the Imperium.
I remember reading about 16th-17th C international trade. Basically the banker's documentary credit or bearer bond (i.e I promise to pay the bearer) was a big way of transfering money internationally. X would go vist Mr Fuger in London, who would give a documentary credit for £10,000 + a fee. He would sail to Venice and cash the bond there in Fuger's bank. IMO this is a way international credit can work in the Imperium.
mad13142000
SOC-13
Could you be referring to LeRoy W.L. Guatney?
He has much Traveller stuff...
http://home.earthlink.net/~ngc5139/sf.html
I can't find the article in question though...
-MADDog
There could be other arrangments. The backer could be the owner promising "right-to-buy" as part of the captains pay. Thus the captain would get a "captains share" of the profits-say ten percent (we want to pay the captain of a free-trader by share so he will have personal interest. The backer would get 90% as owner. The captain would always have the privilege of buying a share of the ship and thus part of the "owners share. As time wears on the captain would own more and more until he, or his heir owns it free and clear. At this point he can continue as captain, or retire, set up on planet and hire another promising fellow to begin the process over. This way the urgency to pay is not so great. The captain can do what he wants so long as
the backer gets his pay some time.
the backer gets his pay some time.
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