In system jumps

[Blue Ghost]

The title pretty much sums it all up.

I've been thinking and plotting out the vectors for my fiction, and I'm wondering what you all thought of a ship or ships jumping from say... the orbit of Mercury to Mars, or some similar distance, and what the ramifications of that kind of technology would be.

 

[far-trader]

All the time

Acceptable and canon. Useful even in some circumstances. If the trip by normal space would take more than a week you can get there quicker by jumping. Or you can do it to avoid being seen to be going there. But it requires more ship and fuel of course. It can be a handy diversionary tactic in other ways too. Even jumping nowhere (i.e. Jump out of orbit of Mercury only to reappear a week later in the same orbit of Mercury. Surprise!)

In MTU I've generally called it a J0, allowed that the minimum computer is a Model/0*, limited such jumps to anything up to half a parsec, and allowed use of half the fuel of a J1.

* which is IMTU the basic default included at no cost in the bridge as an emergency backup capable of minimal ship operations, it's not so much a computer even as it is basic controls, a J0 plot can be crafted manually even, though it goes much quicker with the help of a hand computer, or even an electronic calculator, some really really brainy folks can even do the maths in their head

A lot of all this came out of my own ideas for various stranded scenarios...

...you misjumped with only enough fuel for a J0 left in the tanks (for the power plant) which is just enough to get you to...

...your computer is dead and you'll have to manually plot 2 J0s to get to the next world to get the computer fixed...

...and such.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Very cool.

 

[Whipsnade]

BG,

As Dan has already pointed out, jumps within a stellar system are both acceptable and canonical. The jump1 drive really should be called the jump 0 to 1 drive!

Some points to remember and consider:

- Don't forget stellar 100D jump limits. You mentioned Mercury in your post. That planet orbits well within Sol's 100D limit, as doe Venus. Earth orbits just outside of Sol's limit and Earth's own 100D limit just "squeaks" by, in an astronomical sense, Sol's limit.

- The Solomani are said to have developed jump drive while looking for something to move ships and cargo around the Asteroid Belt.

- An in-system or "zero parsec" jump will use as much jump fuel as a one parsec jump.

- A ship that jumps, for example, from Earth to Neptune while arrive with both one parsec's worth of jump fuel and one week's worth of power plant fuel expended. Topping off their tanks after an in-system jump could be a crews first priority.

- Considering fuel issues, a patrol vessel may very well be deployed along the rider/tender model. A larger vessel jumps to a point in-system while carrying a number of patrol vessels. The large vessel thus "pays" all the jump and "hotel" fuel costs. After exiting jump space, the patrol vessels are released and the tender jumps back home. The patrol vessels then start their patrol with full tanks. They enjoy their full endurance and also can carry "bug out" jump fuel. (If they're jump capable that is!)

Hope this helps.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Supplement Four]

Read MWM's article on Jumpspace in JTAS. It covers in-system "micro-jumps".

 

[CosmicGamer]

- A ship that jumps, for example, from Earth to Neptune while arrive with both one parsec's worth of jump fuel and one week's worth of power plant fuel expended. Topping off their tanks after an in-system jump could be a crews first priority.

Sorry for being a little off topic, but it was brought up in this thread...

For me, the amount of fuel needed to Jump and operate in Jump space is included in the Jump fuel calculation. Is it written somewhere that you also need to allocate additional fuel during Jump? If so, where? For some ship designs, consuming additional fuel during jump would only leave 1 weeks fuel for everything else.

 

[Whipsnade]

CG,

Well, just off the top of my pointy head, I share this from LLB:2 Page 15;

Power plant fuel under the formula (10Pn) allows routine operations and maneuver for four weeks

I suppose you can argue that it doesn't mention time in jump specifically, but it also doesn't specifically rule out time in jump either.

Examine how fuel requirements are determined too. Jump fuel only takes into account a ship's displacement and the number of parsecs jumped. There's nothing in the jump fuel formula that mentions a ships' power plant rating, which is something you'd assume if the jump drive was somehow also powering the ship during jump.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Supplement Four]

CG,

Well, just off the top of my pointy head, I share this from LLB:2 Page 15;

Power plant fuel under the formula (10Pn) allows routine operations and maneuver for four weeks

I suppose you can argue that it doesn't mention time in jump specifically, but it also doesn't specifically rule out time in jump either.

I take it pretty literally. The J-Fuel calculation provides the amount of fuel needed to make a jump.

The PP fuel calculation provides the amount of fuel needed to operate the ship (and maneuver drives when in real space) for four weeks.

Therefore, the week spent in jump is considered a week against the PP fuel.

 

[rancke]

I take it pretty literally. The J-Fuel calculation provides the amount of fuel needed to make a jump.

The PP fuel calculation provides the amount of fuel needed to operate the ship (and maneuver drives when in real space) for four weeks.

Therefore, the week spent in jump is considered a week against the PP fuel.

I think your interpretation of the rules is correct.

As I've argued on other occasions, I also think that the rules are utterly broken on this subject, but that's another matter...


Hans

 

[far-trader]

Sorry for being a little off topic, but it was brought up in this thread...

For me, the amount of fuel needed to Jump and operate in Jump space is included in the Jump fuel calculation. Is it written somewhere that you also need to allocate additional fuel during Jump? If so, where? For some ship designs, consuming additional fuel during jump would only leave 1 weeks fuel for everything else.

No worry CosmicGamer, questions are always good. I suspect based on your 2 weeks concern that this one has come up because of MPT where the default power plant fuel calculation is 2 weeks instead of the standard (every other version of Traveller?) 4 weeks:

"The amount of fuel required by the power plant depends on the
rating of the power plant. See the table at the bottom of this page.
The fuel amounts listed will power the ship for two weeks, which is
the bare minimum for a Jump-capable starship."

Note the bit about "bare minimum" which about says it all I think. Figure a week in jump space and the time on each end to travel between the world and 100d and you may very well be running on fumes, so it is a bare minimum. If you didn't need power plant fuel through jump that 2 weeks would be much more than a bare minimum. Having some extra would be well advised, but apparently not required in the MPT rules.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Read MWM's article on Jumpspace in JTAS. It covers in-system "micro-jumps".

Ah, that's right. I had completely forgotten about that article. Ignore my initial post. Nevermind

 

[BlackBat242]

OK,Far Trader... What is MPT?

Mongoose Press is MGT. At least that is the only thing other than RTT that I have seen for it.

 

[far-trader]

Since you asked...

Well "they" are properly Mongoose Publishing and the book in question is Traveller, so I think the appropriate initials are MPT I'd have been happy with RTT but it never took off And I'm tired of seeing people use MT for Monogoose Traveller as those particular intials have long been MegaTraveller. And for what it's worth I don't like MGT either. That's a classic car series (link) and Mongoose is one word

...MPT probably won't catch on either.

 

[rancke]

So what's wrong with RTT? Why didn't it "take"? It's clever, it's funny, it's incomprehensible to outsiders... what's not to like?


Hans

 

[boomslang]

So what's wrong with RTT? Why didn't it "take"? It's clever, it's funny, it's incomprehensible to outsiders... what's not to like?

To quote the punchline of a very old joke... "I don't know; I've never Kipled!"

 

[RandyT0001]

But Dan people might mistake MPT for Morrow Project Traveller and I'd hate to see such a wonderful ruleset such as Timeline's Morrow Project be confused with the low quality Mongoose Publishing Traveller. Maybe we could refer to Mongoose's version of Traveller as mgT.

 

[far-trader]

There's a Morrow Project Traveller?!



Maybe we could call it TM (Traveller by Mongoose)... or TIM (Traveller In Mongoose). I vaguely recall going through a forest of Mongoose Traveller acronyms ages ago on the Mongoose forum, or here, or both. MGT seems to be the one catching on. I loathe it. But whatever I'll keep stirring my own alphabet soup every once in a while to confuse the masses :devil:

 

[Supplement Four]

Well "they" are properly Mongoose Publishing and the book in question is Traveller, so I think the appropriate initials are MPT ...And I'm tired of seeing people use MT for Monogoose Traveller as those particular intials have long been MegaTraveller.

Um, but "MegaTraveller" is one word, as is Kilogram (kg) or Centimeter (cm).

Why can't "Mongoose" be the "mg" of MGT again?

 

[far-trader]

Um, but "MegaTraveller" is one word, as is Kilogram (kg) or Centimeter (cm).

In all those cases the first part is a separate quantity qualifier to the other. And in the case of MT you'll note the distinction is enhanced by the capital M and capital T. As well MegaTraveller is a made up word. In the case of the measures you have to have more than one initial to make any sense. Simply saying K or C or D won't tell you what you're measuring.

Why can't "Mongoose" be the "mg" of MGT again?

Because it's not Mon Goose whatever that would be. It's Mongoose. Named for the animal of the same name I presume. And it's not some combination of Mon and Goose (of the feathers) as far as I know. It's an Anglified rendition of the original name like many things.

EDIT: If a friendly mod with nothing better to do feels so inclined maybe we could break this "what is... " bit, from post 12 above onward, off to its own thread in Random Static?

 

[rancke]

Because it's not Mon Goose whatever that would be.

Zat iz a peench of ze buttocks performed by ze Frenchman, mon ami.



Hans