Imperium
- Thread starter mtgeiger
- Start date
So I picked up 2nd edition and the Imperial outpost choices seem to be clear to me, a chain from Shuruppak to Dushaam.
Most of the Imperial fleet, including the Monitor goes to the double system at Dushaam, but a select strike package with destroyers, scouts and the tanker is waiting at Epsilon Eridani.
If the Terrans place an outpost at Procyon without guards then take it during the first reaction move, otherwise just drop a scout there.
The tanker witdraws back to Shuruppak in any case.
-HJC
Most of the Imperial fleet, including the Monitor goes to the double system at Dushaam, but a select strike package with destroyers, scouts and the tanker is waiting at Epsilon Eridani.
If the Terrans place an outpost at Procyon without guards then take it during the first reaction move, otherwise just drop a scout there.
The tanker witdraws back to Shuruppak in any case.
-HJC
OK, I've been playing it over a few times and here's something I spotted.
Zero Maintenance Attack Forces
Terrans: 11 MB + 11 SC + 6 F = 28 shooters
Imps: 11 SC + 3 F = 14 shooters
And the Imps can build exactly one counter that attrits favorably against Ter SCs at close range without begging permission.
Zero Maintenance Attack Forces
Terrans: 11 MB + 11 SC + 6 F = 28 shooters
Imps: 11 SC + 3 F = 14 shooters
And the Imps can build exactly one counter that attrits favorably against Ter SCs at close range without begging permission.
How about this for a cost formula?
The "fair" point value of an Imperium ship is equal to
(Beam/2.0 + Missile + Screen * 2.0) / sqrt(Maint)
That gives the total worth to price ratio of all terrans warships as 1.18 and the Imps as 1.04 with the most cost effective unit as the Imp Fighter (without MS) and the least as the Imp CA.
If the maint number of the Ter MB was increased to 2 it would go a long ways towards balancing the tactical game then just drop the half income for war winner and the strategic game would be balanced.
-HJC
The "fair" point value of an Imperium ship is equal to
(Beam/2.0 + Missile + Screen * 2.0) / sqrt(Maint)
That gives the total worth to price ratio of all terrans warships as 1.18 and the Imps as 1.04 with the most cost effective unit as the Imp Fighter (without MS) and the least as the Imp CA.
If the maint number of the Ter MB was increased to 2 it would go a long ways towards balancing the tactical game then just drop the half income for war winner and the strategic game would be balanced.
-HJC
High intensity missile fire is a bit of a crock, but if this was elminated the MBs would be advantaged.
You see a MB without hi-int attrits favorably against large Imperial ships while small Imps, such as the DD like to use hi-int against the MB.
I don't see any sort of realstic rule about transfering missiles in the middle of combat, but both sides can use excess TRs as "armor" or a screen for breakoff.
-HJC
You see a MB without hi-int attrits favorably against large Imperial ships while small Imps, such as the DD like to use hi-int against the MB.
I don't see any sort of realstic rule about transfering missiles in the middle of combat, but both sides can use excess TRs as "armor" or a screen for breakoff.
-HJC
It's not that difficult to win as the Imperium. What's required is that the Imperium has to be as agressive as possible early, before the Terrans can build a navy, otherwise, the Imperium is toast.
There's nothing wrong with the Terran MBs; they are the only thing that keep the Terrans in the game vs the generally better Imperium missile capacity and they also tend to evaporate in heavy combat. The low maint number and relative cheapness is about the only thing making them viable, and even then, not by much. Their DF of 1 means that even an Imperial SC has a decent chance of taking one out.
High intensity missile fire also works and doesn't need to be fixed (well, not all that much). Yes, it does break down with ships with high missile factors, but high-int was designed to try and give the weaker ships a bit of a chance. And even if distorted by the higher-factor ships, the decision to forgo use of that high missile factor for the rest of the turn is still not a decision made lightly.
There's nothing wrong with the Terran MBs; they are the only thing that keep the Terrans in the game vs the generally better Imperium missile capacity and they also tend to evaporate in heavy combat. The low maint number and relative cheapness is about the only thing making them viable, and even then, not by much. Their DF of 1 means that even an Imperial SC has a decent chance of taking one out.
High intensity missile fire also works and doesn't need to be fixed (well, not all that much). Yes, it does break down with ships with high missile factors, but high-int was designed to try and give the weaker ships a bit of a chance. And even if distorted by the higher-factor ships, the decision to forgo use of that high missile factor for the rest of the turn is still not a decision made lightly.
The biggest Terran advantage is the two MS.
Once those are loaded the Imps are toast.
You need to look at the Terran fleet as a high/low mix with the big ships being MB and the little ships being SC and fighters. (As noted before the SC and fighters toast anything the Imps can build without permission while the MB clean out the big stuff.)
The Terrans should never pay a single RU in Maint.
Instead take your first 27 RUs and build 4 MB, a tanker, 5 scouts, a jump troop and a transport.
Keep one Outpost available to drop on an Imperial world to end the first war at turn two. (If it's Nusku and the Imps don't have any worlds further out you can cut that elbow there and have three other worlds to develop on your side of the line.)
-HJC
http://dmoz.org/Games/Board_Games/Science_Fiction/Imperium_3rd_Millenium/
Once those are loaded the Imps are toast.
You need to look at the Terran fleet as a high/low mix with the big ships being MB and the little ships being SC and fighters. (As noted before the SC and fighters toast anything the Imps can build without permission while the MB clean out the big stuff.)
The Terrans should never pay a single RU in Maint.
Instead take your first 27 RUs and build 4 MB, a tanker, 5 scouts, a jump troop and a transport.
Keep one Outpost available to drop on an Imperial world to end the first war at turn two. (If it's Nusku and the Imps don't have any worlds further out you can cut that elbow there and have three other worlds to develop on your side of the line.)
-HJC
http://dmoz.org/Games/Board_Games/Science_Fiction/Imperium_3rd_Millenium/
The Imperials have a big advantage in that their higher missile factors and the uncertainty of the Terrans being able to close to beam range makes a good deal of the Terran ships vulnerable.
I'd argue that the best strategy for the Terrans is to hold at Barnard and try and secure Procyon and access to the rest of that arm. If they can grab that and the territory behind it, they've got a good chance of winning.
I'd argue that the best strategy for the Terrans is to hold at Barnard and try and secure Procyon and access to the rest of that arm. If they can grab that and the territory behind it, they've got a good chance of winning.
First, can we decide on the setup?
I've got the Impire streching from Agidda to Epsilon Endani with every ship (including the monitor and TRs) sitting at Agidda, except for one SC back at Nusku.
The Terrans start with everything at BS.
Given that, who picks a fight on turn one?
The Terran first move drops an outpost, infantry and planetary defense marker on Procyon and another outpost somewhere in Sol's backyard.
This leaves a spare Outpost sitting packed in crates on Earth next to the PD unit and jump troop.
If the Terran fleet isn't crushed by the Imps first reaction move then the jump troop and spare outpost get loaded onto transports at BS for the Terran reaction move while a SC goes to Sirus or Procyon.
See the map here
(Big and fuzzy)
http://www.farfuture.net/ffe/FFE005-00M1.gif
or here
(page 5)
http://www.kentaurus.com/downloads/ip001.pdf
I've got the Impire streching from Agidda to Epsilon Endani with every ship (including the monitor and TRs) sitting at Agidda, except for one SC back at Nusku.
The Terrans start with everything at BS.
Given that, who picks a fight on turn one?
The Terran first move drops an outpost, infantry and planetary defense marker on Procyon and another outpost somewhere in Sol's backyard.
This leaves a spare Outpost sitting packed in crates on Earth next to the PD unit and jump troop.
If the Terran fleet isn't crushed by the Imps first reaction move then the jump troop and spare outpost get loaded onto transports at BS for the Terran reaction move while a SC goes to Sirus or Procyon.
See the map here
(Big and fuzzy)
http://www.farfuture.net/ffe/FFE005-00M1.gif
or here
(page 5)
http://www.kentaurus.com/downloads/ip001.pdf
Wow, I never leave the Terrans with everything on Barnard's. I usually adopt a perimeter defence, with a PDU on BS at least, and maybe a couple scouts and a CL with a reaction force at Alpha.
For the Imperium, I'll go as far down the arm past Nuusku as I can on that side, and to Epsilon on the other. My usual strategy is to try and hold at Nuusku with the monitor and a SC, and at least one other a jump back towards Dingir, with PDUs on both systems in Nuusku, as well as some regular troops. The bulk of the fleet concentrates at Epsilon with the objective of taking and holding Procyon so I can prevent the Terrans expanding all the way up that far right arm.
My experience has been that PDUs are so deadly that the early Terrans can only go one way, if that, and it usually makes more sense for the Terrans to expand into empty territory, then send a raid in somewhere with jump troops to call a halt to the war once they've got a good, expanded econ base.
For the Imperium, I'll go as far down the arm past Nuusku as I can on that side, and to Epsilon on the other. My usual strategy is to try and hold at Nuusku with the monitor and a SC, and at least one other a jump back towards Dingir, with PDUs on both systems in Nuusku, as well as some regular troops. The bulk of the fleet concentrates at Epsilon with the objective of taking and holding Procyon so I can prevent the Terrans expanding all the way up that far right arm.
My experience has been that PDUs are so deadly that the early Terrans can only go one way, if that, and it usually makes more sense for the Terrans to expand into empty territory, then send a raid in somewhere with jump troops to call a halt to the war once they've got a good, expanded econ base.
PDUs are fairly useless against Jumpers (kill on a 1) and cost more than three times as much.
PDUs are good at keeping a stack of seven MBs from auto-neuting a world, but they cost a bundle and tend to disappear everytime peace breaks out.
Here's a strange optional rule I've just thought of, but haven't tried.
Battleship protection act: Everytime a non-disrupted ship is hit roll one die and on the ship's maint number or less the ship is just disrupted and not destroyed.
-HJC
PDUs are good at keeping a stack of seven MBs from auto-neuting a world, but they cost a bundle and tend to disappear everytime peace breaks out.
Here's a strange optional rule I've just thought of, but haven't tried.
Battleship protection act: Everytime a non-disrupted ship is hit roll one die and on the ship's maint number or less the ship is just disrupted and not destroyed.
-HJC
I never build PDUs as a defence against troops. For that I use troops. I build PDUs as an anti-ship defence. Any PDU that's alone on a world deserves to be visited by jump troops
Sure they cost a lot, but when placed at key locations (and by that I don't mean a half-dozen of the things), they can put a serious cramp in an offensive. I've seen a single PDU take out a third of the main Imperial fleet.
Sure they cost a lot, but when placed at key locations (and by that I don't mean a half-dozen of the things), they can put a serious cramp in an offensive. I've seen a single PDU take out a third of the main Imperial fleet.
Now imagine replacing that PDU with 10 fighters stationed at the outpost instead to blow away the freighters before the jump troops get anywhere near the planet.Originally posted by PBI:
I never build PDUs as a defence against troops. For that I use troops. I build PDUs as an anti-ship defence. Any PDU that's alone on a world deserves to be visited by jump troops
Sure they cost a lot, but when placed at key locations (and by that I don't mean a half-dozen of the things), they can put a serious cramp in an offensive. I've seen a single PDU take out a third of the main Imperial fleet.
Here are the things that I find are big fixes in I3M vs old Imperium.
1> Remove perfect knowledge of what's in each enemy system.
2> Get rid of infinite move and have more movement chances so as to open up an operational level.
3> Limit the forces that can be maintained at zero cost on each outpost, including ground forces.
4> Don't allow TRs to act as armor to protect warships.
5> Have damage steps for big ships.
What parts of these should be jury-rigged back to old Imperium?
-HJC
1> Remove perfect knowledge of what's in each enemy system.
2> Get rid of infinite move and have more movement chances so as to open up an operational level.
3> Limit the forces that can be maintained at zero cost on each outpost, including ground forces.
4> Don't allow TRs to act as armor to protect warships.
5> Have damage steps for big ships.
What parts of these should be jury-rigged back to old Imperium?
-HJC
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Try them one at a time to see what works and what doesn't.
By the way, what's the tactical ship combat system in I3M like?
By the way, what's the tactical ship combat system in I3M like?
For I3M see the review here
http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_5008.html
> Space combat is carried out on a map representing
> the three-dimensional space around a planet.
I'm still pondering how to roll the best of FFW and HG into a multiplayer (one player per fleet) game of Imperium.
-HJC
http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_5008.html
> Space combat is carried out on a map representing
> the three-dimensional space around a planet.
I'm still pondering how to roll the best of FFW and HG into a multiplayer (one player per fleet) game of Imperium.
-HJC
OK, here's another take on the Imperium cost formula.
(Beam/2 + Missile + (Screen-1)*2)/Maint^1/3
The ratios of value to cost then go
Terrans: F, M, MB, DD, CL, CS, SC, CR, BB, B, MS
Imperials: F, M, SC, DD, CL, BB, CS, B2, B1, CR, CA, MS
With the Imperial monitor at a ratio of 2.54 and the Imperial MS at 0.
In either navy, a MS + 3 F is a slightly better buy than 3 DD + SC by this formula, which is a strange result until you consider maint.
(Beam/2 + Missile + (Screen-1)*2)/Maint^1/3
The ratios of value to cost then go
Terrans: F, M, MB, DD, CL, CS, SC, CR, BB, B, MS
Imperials: F, M, SC, DD, CL, BB, CS, B2, B1, CR, CA, MS
With the Imperial monitor at a ratio of 2.54 and the Imperial MS at 0.
In either navy, a MS + 3 F is a slightly better buy than 3 DD + SC by this formula, which is a strange result until you consider maint.
Enoff
SOC-13
Now I only have the 1st edition Imperium rules but I was thinking about limiting intelligence. How about only being allowed to see the top counter in a stack?
Engaging with just a scout would let you to see the whole stack, unless destroyed by the screening force. This would allow you to conceal some forces and your possible intentions.
Maybe some decoy counters could be allowed? So a stack of 1 scout or destroyer with four decoys would look like a substantial force until revealed.
Counter mix? Well I am looking to play though these online boardgame simulators like Aide de Camp, Cyberboard or Vassal and you can make as many counters as you like.
Engaging with just a scout would let you to see the whole stack, unless destroyed by the screening force. This would allow you to conceal some forces and your possible intentions.
Maybe some decoy counters could be allowed? So a stack of 1 scout or destroyer with four decoys would look like a substantial force until revealed.
Counter mix? Well I am looking to play though these online boardgame simulators like Aide de Camp, Cyberboard or Vassal and you can make as many counters as you like.
