How would you rate this type of starport?

[Enoki]

You have a system that has a starport. It's a decent quality one, to even excellent (class A or B). Add it's in a system outside the 3rd Imperium so it doesn't have to follow their rules.

The system restricts access to it. Only certain ships belonging to certain entities can use it. Maybe they only allow their own ships to use it, or ones that have specific licensing, trade, or political agreements to do so. Whatever the case, they aren't operating it as a public unrestricted access port. The government isn't particularly repressive either. Maybe they're xenophobic, or protectionist, something like that.

How would that be classified?

Assume the system is neither an amber or red zone... Unless it would be classed automatically as one or the other because of this.

 

[Hemdian]

I've always seen the UWP strings as somewhat "in game" (like a Michelin Guide sort of thing for merchants. To that end I tend to use class 'E' as meaning no *public* starport. The presence of military or private ports are not part of the UWP (even if known about). Starport X means unknown due to interdiction ... which also means no *public* starport. (I believe the exact interpretation varies from one rule set to another.)

Also, Amber and Red Zones are a classification system of travel advisories issued by TAS. Were TAS to rate the system you describe, I think it would be an Amber Zone ... unless the world really refuses to accept visitors, in which case, it might earn a Red Zone status.

So it comes down to how restrictive the starport access is and how the locals would react to an unauthorised ship landing there anyway. If the restrictions are fairly loose, I might go with starport A (or whatever) and Amber Zone (if TAS rated). If they are tight and there is a risk of a fine or something for violation, I'd tend to go with starport 'E' Amber Zone. And if they'll shoot at you or arrest you, I'd go with starport 'X' Red Zone.

 

[Enoki]

The problem with that assessment is that the starport rating also determines the availability of services. So such a starport that has refined fuel, ship construction and repair facilities, and such would definitely not be an E or X type. This would make it somewhat problematic in terms of defining what that system / world has in terms of capacity.

I really think this could be a lot more nuanced than it is...

 

[flykiller]

How would that be classified?

ct et al classifies ports by capabilities, not according to access, because access is assumed (there's that presumed imperium again). worlds are zoned, because access is not assumed.

assuming this space-going entity has had contact other space polities for centuries, one would presume either there would be accessible ports, or that the entity would be known to be "by invitation only" and no-one would go there without invitation. in either case the ports themselves could be classified normally - A for starship yard (restricted access), B for non-starship yard (restricted access), and/or C for general traffic (limited/unlimited access), and have a separate accessibility status.

 

[Timerover51]

You have a system that has a starport. It's a decent quality one, to even excellent (class A or B). Add it's in a system outside the 3rd Imperium so it doesn't have to follow their rules.

The system restricts access to it. Only certain ships belonging to certain entities can use it. Maybe they only allow their own ships to use it, or ones that have specific licensing, trade, or political agreements to do so. Whatever the case, they aren't operating it as a public unrestricted access port. The government isn't particularly repressive either. Maybe they're xenophobic, or protectionist, something like that.

How would that be classified?

Assume the system is neither an amber or red zone... Unless it would be classed automatically as one or the other because of this.

The key point about the starport is that it is outside the Imperium. The A to X starport classification system works within the Imperium, but becomes questionable outside of it. The following quote comes from Supplement 3: The Spinward Marches.

outside the Imperium, the assumed classification is Amber for Imperial citizens

Outside of the Imperium, your best bet would be a notation of "Special for Starport" and indicate any restrictions, or give it a code of either "S" for "Special Conditions" or "R" for "Restrictions", in the code location for Amber?Red Zone. As anything outside of the Imperium is automatically "Amber", the TAS coding is a bit superfluous.

 

[Garnfellow]

I would class it as either an A or B starport with a Red Zone, or else an X with no zone, and I'd lean toward the latter given it's outside the Imperium.

Hans suggested that to qualify for a specific starport rating, a starport had to meet all of the qualifications of that rating, not just a majority. So a starport that had refined fuel but no repair facilities would be a D at best.

Although not stated outright, a strongly implied trait of A, B, C, D, and even E starports is public availability of facilities. A system with severely restricted access would get an X rating from the Scouts or whatever agency assigned ratings.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Local maps would call it class A, Imperial maps would call it class X?

If the entire system is dangerous or restricted: Red zone?
If just the starport is restricted: Class X?

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Starport and Zone are rated indepedently from each other.

Starport is easy to quantify based on available facilities.

Zone is harder based on your tactic.
In the OTU all systems outside the Imperium are classed Amber Zones to start with.

T5 has a way of automatic determining. Add Gov+LL (convert to numeric). 22+ = Red Zone, 20-21 = Amber Zone 0-19 = Green

 

[The Pakkrat]

In addition to prior answers, I'd slap it with a Puzzle (Pz) Trade Classification to further alert Travellers and starship Owners/Captains to look deeper into the local regulations before jumping in-system. Permission for wilderness fueling is another regulatory topic for this system.

Via satellite, this is the Pakkrat.

 

[McPerth]

You have a system that has a starport. It's a decent quality one, to even excellent (class A or B). Add it's in a system outside the 3rd Imperium so it doesn't have to follow their rules.

The system restricts access to it. Only certain ships belonging to certain entities can use it. Maybe they only allow their own ships to use it, or ones that have specific licensing, trade, or political agreements to do so. Whatever the case, they aren't operating it as a public unrestricted access port. The government isn't particularly repressive either. Maybe they're xenophobic, or protectionist, something like that.

How would that be classified?

Assume the system is neither an amber or red zone... Unless it would be classed automatically as one or the other because of this.

Being outside the Imperium, I'd rate it as A.

The fact that Imperial ships need a visa to enter it, or even are not wellcome it's enterely another matter, to be stated in the system description notes, but has no effect on the starport rating.

Or aren't Ninjar (Zhodani, SM0608), Cipango (Zhodani, SM0705), Gram (Sword Worlds, SM1223) or hernozem (Solomani, SR1836), just to name a few, A rated starports, depite Imperial ships probably not being wellcome there (or even met with hostility)?

And none of them is rated as Amber or Red zones.

 

[welsh]

Starport and Zone are rated indepedently from each other.

Starport is easy to quantify based on available facilities.

I agree with this (& McPerth). The UWP can't capture everything & it's a mistake (IMHO) to use it that way. The fact that starport access may be restricted in some way doesn't affect the starport class, any more than the fact I can't fly a Cessna 152 into LAX on a whim downgrades LAX.

It's a class A starport with a notice to travellers: landing rights are restricted.

The exception might be if a port was wholly private & restricted to a single user, with no passenger traffic - like a naval base.

T5 has a way of automatic determining. Add Gov+LL (convert to numeric). 22+ = Red Zone, 20-21 = Amber Zone 0-19 = Green

I view that as supplementary ... travel zone is what you deem it to be based on your imagining of the cultural norms and political situation on a given world. It should not be the result of die rolls.

 

[McPerth]

T5 has a way of automatic determining. Add Gov+LL (convert to numeric). 22+ = Red Zone, 20-21 = Amber Zone 0-19 = Green

Well, already in MT (RM, page 25) there was a table where according the Gov and LL planets could be seen as Amber or Red zones (aside from specifying that most planets with X rated starports were Red Zones). Not sure about other versions.

But in this case, in the OP we're told:

The government isn't particularly repressive either.

So. I guess the LL is not too high (and probably neither the Gov level is)

 

[Whipsnade]

How would that be classified?

IMTU the world would have an E or X starport code as that code IMTU refers to whatever facilities are available publicly.

Such a world would have a substantial population and a good tech level along with a government and law level that aren't particularly odious meaning there should be some trade occurring despite what the UWP's port code seems to suggest.

IMTU Forine/District 268 is an example of all this.

Also, ISTR, that all systems outside of the Imperium are considered Amber Zones by the Travellers' Aid Society.

 

[McPerth]

Also, ISTR, that all systems outside of the Imperium are considered Amber Zones by the Travellers' Aid Society.

While I see logic on it, if that's true, why are some of them specifically rated as Amber Zones?

Maybe they are somwhere between Green and Amber (at least those that are not client states)??

 

[Whipsnade]

While I see logic on it, if that's true, why are some of them specifically rated as Amber Zones?

Beats me.

While I remember it being stated, I don't remember the context or where it was stated. It could have been an "in-game" remark or an "meta-game" detail. It could have been an aside by one writer that has been ignored and/or overwritten by others later.

 

[inexorabletash]

Beats me.

While I remember it being stated, I don't remember the context or where it was stated. It could have been an "in-game" remark or an "meta-game" detail. It could have been an aside by one writer that has been ignored and/or overwritten by others later.

We should dig it up - I recall it too.

My assumption is that in-game there are comparable services and/or subtly different TAS ratings beyond the Imperium, and we see a simplified representation.

 

[mike wightman]

Spinward Marches, S:3, page 40:

Green Zones are not otherwise stated. All unclassified locations within the lmperium are coded green; outside the Imperium, the assumed classification is Amber for Imperial citizens.

Earlier on page 36 it states:

Note too, that the Travellers' Aid Society is not simply an Imperial organization - its facilities extend to regions beyond the strict borders of the Imperium.

 

[Whipsnade]

Thanks Mike! And thanks Inexorabletash too!

It's good to know I wasn't hallucinating again.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

While I see logic on it, if that's true, why are some of them specifically rated as Amber Zones?

Maybe they are somwhere between Green and Amber (at least those that are not client states)??

the MGT Spinward Marches book mentions a few outside the imperium worlds that have a explicit amber code. most of them are worlds with extra hazards similar to those that would justify the normal amber zones in the imperium.

the "any non imperial world is to be treated as amber grade" is a blanket warning that "things work differently out their", and that the imperial regulated services and other standard assumptions wont be the same (for example, the assumption that you can go complain to the starport authority if your ripped off, or that you in fact have any local legal rights as a non-citizen of that world)

 

[Garnfellow]

We should dig it up - I recall it too.

My assumption is that in-game there are comparable services and/or subtly different TAS ratings beyond the Imperium, and we see a simplified representation.

I think this is an important discussion as the T5SS moves farther away from Imperial space. (And it starts to raise some interesting meta-questions: does T5SS data represent in-game data as reported by the IISS and TAS, or is it out-of-game referee data?)

I believe there are a few more CT references that state the TAS rates everything outside the Imperium as Amber Zones, but Mike cited the most notable one.

We have some information, occasionally contradictory, about polities beyond the Imperium:

Solomani Confederation

• “The Solomani Confederation does not establish travel zones for worlds within its boundaries. Some worlds may be locally interdicted, but the fact is made available only locally (to those who express an interest in going there). . . The Travellers' Aid Society establishes some travel zones for worlds along the lmperial border as a service to its patrons. Such travel zones are noted in lmperial charts (CT Solomani Alien Module, 30).
• “The Solomani Confederation retained the Amber and Red Zone code system when they broke away from the Imperium. Publication of Amber and Red Zone codes are controlled by the Solomani Ministry of Information with input from other Confederation bodies. Red Zone worlds are interdicted by the High Council using the instrument of the Confederation Navy for reasons of state security. The Solomani Confederation has no equivalent of Imperial Scout Service interdiction to safeguard developing cultures" (Mongoose Traveller Solomani Alien Module, 117).

Aslan Heirate

• "Travel zones are not generally used in Aslan space. . . . Individual clans may interdict a world to preserve a resource, to reserve a world for sole exploitation by one clan, or to prevent space travel by a barbarian race. In such case, the local starport is type X (which may have some facilities, but they are closed to non-members of the owning clan)" (CT Aslan Alien Module 25).
• "In general, most Aslan space would be considered an Amber Zone for most humans, due to the dangers associated in dealing with touchy Aslan individuals" (CT Aslan Alien Module 30).
• "Class X starports are considered interdicted worlds, but the interdiction is declared by some individual clan, not by the Tlaukhu as a whole. Generally, worlds are interdicted by a clan so that some local resource may be exclusively exploited, t prevent space travel by a native race, or to exploit that race without outside interference. Interdictions are hardly ever established to protect a world or race, only to benefit the acting clan in some way. However, the owning clan may maintain starport facilities and a base at a class X world. Port quality is zero, and the port is closed to traffic not of the owning clan" (CT Aslan Alien Module 34).
• "Travel Zones . . . [work] essentially the same within 25 parsecs (hexes) of the Imperial borders. The Imperial Travellers' Aid Society posts no official zones for Aslan worlds beyond 25 parsecs, although zones may still appear on star charts of remote parts of the Hierate. Aslan characters ignore travel zones -- Imperial agencies list them for the convenience of Imperial travellers. As a rule, Aslan worlds with law levels of 11+ are automatically amber zoned. Aslan worlds with class X starports are red zoned as these are considered interdicted worlds" (MegaTraveller Alien - Solomani and Aslan 88). Page 91 essentially repeats CT information.
• "Starports worse than Class I denote that the planet concerned has been interdicted by the owning clan, and only clan members may use the starport facilities (which may be better than one would expect for a Class I port). Unlike Humans, Aslan do not interdict a world to protect local sophonts, resources, or wildlife – they do so to ensure that these are exploited for the clan’s sole benefit. Depending on the clan’s motivation, this may be so benign as to constitute protective interdiction" (GURPS Traveller: Alien Races 2 23).

The Mongoose Traveller Aslan book repeats the same information from the CT module.

Hive Federation

• "Any world with a class X Starport is considered interdicted. Such worlds are denied knowledge of, or contact with, interstellar society. Only personnel employed by the Federation Development Agency in local observation or cultural uplift operations are permitted to visit the world. . . . Such worlds are generated using the standard Traveller world generation system (although their populations are not necessarily human). When a Hiver world is being generated and the starport type is X, it automatically has a non-Hiver population and uses the standard world generation system" (CT Hiver Alien Module 34).
• "There are no formal travel zones in the Hive Federation; the following equivalences, however, apply within the Federation. Worlds with a type X starport are interdicted (worlds with type X starports have non-Hiver populations and use the standard Traveller world generation system). Worlds with non-Hiver populations and technological levels below 7 are the equivalent of zone amber" (CT Hiver Alien Module 34).