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How Politically Correct is your TU?

Your pardon, gentles all whilst I stray of topic....

In matters political, Ben Bell and I will most likely disagree, and we do that civilly(I hope) on Random static. In matters Traveller, we have common ground (here and there).

Wheras you and I disagree about things Traveller,George-- yet see eye to eye politically in RL, 9 out of 10 times.
 
Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
Your pardon, gentles all whilst I stray of topic....

In matters political, Ben Bell and I will most likely disagree, and we do that civilly(I hope) on Random static. In matters Traveller, we have common ground (here and there).

Wheras you and I disagree about things Traveller,George-- yet see eye to eye politically in RL, 9 out of 10 times.
Good Point.

The difference is when was the last Traveller canon met life and death for yourself, family, and communities? :confused:
 
Traveller canon meaning life or death? is that what you mean? GAB, lets leave that gauntlet on random static shall we? I see yer point, but there are some places where those battles can be fought--this page isnae one of them.

"You've become one of them"--words one of my former lovers said when I returned from basic/AIT.

"I take the man's shilling, I wear his colors," was my reply."But I will always be me."
 
Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
Traveller canon meaning life or death? is that what you mean? GAB, lets leave that gauntlet on random static shall we? I see yer point, but there are some places where those battles can be fought--this page isnae one of them.
Actually having or not having it in this topic is relevant to the topic. Remember it was titled "How Politically Correct is your TU". It could evolve to Political Correctness in the Traveller Community and Universe.
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Ah then GAB, ye have failed to see that this topic is altogether like Star Wars(tm): AMerican accented Stormtroopers, officered by British accented chaps, steered altogether in the "darkside" by a heretical Irishman! ;)
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So PLOP101, the IMOJ "hushes' up the faux pas of the greater Nobility, IYTU(as illustrated by your case in the Norris/Santanocheev affair, wherein two prominent noble lasses (Ciencia, and Isis) may or may not have had a physical role in).

reminds me of Hillary's bimbo squad of PI's with intimidation, etc.Thanx!
 
Rodina, IYTU, the Imperium is officially agnostic on marriage customs (each to their own/ laissez faire). No problemo.

In a campaign set in the Arrival Vengeance module we chanced upon a world detailed in Knightfall in Massilia. A balkanized world where the President had to have two wives.(one could have 1-2 wives on thsi world).
Finding a suitable "extra mate" for the Monogamous PC & his wife PC to go dirtside and play diplomat with was a bit of a chuckle I had as GM...(we had four lady players, four men, three couples, two singles).

THAT was some role playing!!!(Trying to be Politically Correct for this one planet!).

Then there was the planet that dispensed with clothes (due to critters arborne and in soil that disintegrated most fabrics, but was to hot to wear those fabrics that the organism's didn't...)
They viewed clothes as deceptive masks, and felt anyone trying to negotiate wearing clothing was automatically hiding something, and would never be "truly honest" (yes, I am an evil GM).
 
Well, since I inadvertently helped start this thread, I should say something, shouldn't I?


Unfortunately, I'm not running Traveller, and have no plans to do so anytime soon. Or play, more's the pity.

Still, knowing what I know about how I set things up, I can figure certain attitudes that would prevail.

First with regard to marriage, a lot depends on the exact nature of the Imperium, which I don't really grok yet. However, if designed by me, and given the realities of the universe (slow comms, etc.) it would be an aristocratic confederacy, basically.

And, for any proper confederacy, the primary rules would involve only trade and aggression between member states.

That said, it would probably require limited 'Full Faith and credit' for most things. Marriages, Inheritance, etc., would be according to the planet they were filed under, at least legally. Of course, there would be laws in place at the various sub-sectors and planets that would limit that, but I think most planets would accept full faith and credit for marriage declarations, just as they would with ship registration and the like.

Of course, this doesn't extend to making those with weird marriage customs feel welcome. I'm reminded of Melissa Scott's 'The Paths of Heaven', wherein is was possible to legally join a group marriage. The 'bad guys' of the first book considered it an abomination, but still kept them together, accepting rule of law.

Similarly with homosexuality - or other 'deviant' behaviours. While they might have no choice but to accept a same-sex marriage declaration, that doesn't mean they have to sell things to that couple.

Basically, IMTU, I think the Imperium would do what it could to not only encourage trade, but also to encourage travel, within the limits of its actual ability to enforce change.

Enough rambling for now.
 
Originally posted by Stormraven:
Well, since I inadvertently helped start this thread, I should say something, shouldn't I?


First with regard to marriage, a lot depends on the exact nature of the Imperium, which I don't really grok yet. However, if designed by me, and given the realities of the universe (slow comms, etc.) it would be an aristocratic confederacy, basically.

And, for any proper confederacy, the primary rules would involve only trade and aggression between member states.

That said, it would probably require limited 'Full Faith and credit' for most things. Marriages, Inheritance, etc., would be according to the planet they were filed under, at least legally. Of course, there would be laws in place at the various sub-sectors and planets that would limit that, but I think most planets would accept full faith and credit for marriage declarations, just as they would with ship registration and the like.

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With you so far Stormraven...
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Of course, this doesn't extend to making those with weird marriage customs feel welcome. I'm reminded of Melissa Scott's 'The Paths of Heaven', wherein is was possible to legally join a group marriage. The 'bad guys' of the first book considered it an abomination, but still kept them together, accepting rule of law.
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Robert A Heinlein's line Marriage concept as well...
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Similarly with homosexuality - or other 'deviant' behaviours. While they might have no choice but to accept a same-sex marriage declaration, that doesn't mean they have to sell things to that couple.

Basically, IMTU, I think the Imperium would do what it could to not only encourage trade, but also to encourage travel, within the limits of its actual ability to enforce change.
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True, access to stellar travel, and free trade doesnae mean a person has to sell to you if'n he doesnae like yer lifestyle. Or that they have to talk to you at all. The reverse is also true when the shoe is on the other foot.
The three taboos of talk still hold sway in places I believe amongst strangers (Sex, Politics, and religion). IMTU, those engaged in trade try to keep it to just business, and anyone askin about anything but the cargo yer buyin, or sellin gets a funny stare, and the talk resumes after pregnant pause back about the cargoes..
 
Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
Ah then GAB, ye have failed to see that this topic is altogether like Star Wars(tm): AMerican accented Stormtroopers, officered by British accented chaps, steered altogether in the "darkside" by a heretical Irishman! ;)
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You forgot the other sterotypes that various groups griped about Episode I & II'

Arab accented sleazy merchants (The flying thingie that owned Anakin)

Japanese sounding greedy, evil Trade Federation leaders.

Hispanic bountyhunters (Many groups said Jango Fett was portraying Hispanics bad, even though the actor was Maori IIRC)
 
Originally posted by George Boyett:
Hispanic bountyhunters (Many groups said Jango Fett was portraying Hispanics bad, even though the actor was Maori IIRC)
The Fett's both had very strong Kiwi accents. I totally missed how they might have been considered hispanic. Is it because they don't have pale skin?
 
Originally posted by The Mink:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by George Boyett:
Hispanic bountyhunters (Many groups said Jango Fett was portraying Hispanics bad, even though the actor was Maori IIRC)
The Fett's both had very strong Kiwi accents. I totally missed how they might have been considered hispanic. Is it because they don't have pale skin?</font>[/QUOTE]That and Jango's face had some features similar to mexican/aztec descent.
 
It is not.GAB, ye missed the point, lad(sighs). Okay, we're at a watershed it seems..Laissez faire on cultural affairs it seems is a mainstay for the imperium TU's out there.(marriages, etc planetary laws, etc.). All under the umbrella of the "Imperium's trade/ travel/ protection umbrella".
Cool so far.
WE've scratched a few wee differences to the Imp Navy's(and shipboard marines) approaches to fraternization, etc on ships.
I will caveat my previous statements, GAB IS correct, ships run 24-7, and it is inherent on the Skipper to keep the crew "busy" in jump (idle hands the devil's workshop, n all that), lest you think MTU IMp Navy was military "loveBoat" Navy. ;)
It is not. I tend to take the Jerry Pournelle view on such things in the Marines, however. One cannot afford a wife, you were not issued one, so Lower ranking troopers tend towards the brothels, etc untilt they make Sergeant(E5)then they are allowed a mistress/ consort. E-7's+ can marry. Unless married PRIOR to enlistment!
Officers are strongly encouraged into matrimony, as this allows for understanding of subordinates cares. AFter O5(CDR) this is a prerequisite for Captain. Marine officers follow suit this way IMTU as well, as does the Imp Army.
 
Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
It is not.GAB, ye missed the point, lad(sighs). Okay, we're at a watershed it seems..Laissez faire on cultural affairs it seems is a mainstay for the imperium TU's out there.(marriages, etc planetary laws, etc.). All under the umbrella of the "Imperium's trade/ travel/ protection umbrella".
Cool so far.
WE've scratched a few wee differences to the Imp Navy's(and shipboard marines) approaches to fraternization, etc on ships.
I will caveat my previous statements, GAB IS correct, ships run 24-7, and it is inherent on the Skipper to keep the crew "busy" in jump (idle hands the devil's workshop, n all that), lest you think MTU IMp Navy was military "loveBoat" Navy. ;)
It is not. I tend to take the Jerry Pournelle view on such things in the Marines, however. One cannot afford a wife, you were not issued one, so Lower ranking troopers tend towards the brothels, etc untilt they make Sergeant(E5)then they are allowed a mistress/ consort. E-7's+ can marry. Unless married PRIOR to enlistment!
Officers are strongly encouraged into matrimony, as this allows for understanding of subordinates cares. AFter O5(CDR) this is a prerequisite for Captain. Marine officers follow suit this way IMTU as well, as does the Imp Army.
I'd been more strict on the rules for matrimony and the military IMTU. I'd use the Roman army as a guide. IIRC the professional army started out prohibiting marrage completely for enlisted soldiers until retirement. This of course did not stop the soldiers from having relatinships and establishing families, but they had no legal standing and the government provided no support. If the legion got redeployed, it was up to the soldier to move his family at his own expense. Over time the syetem erroded due to soldier discontent over their families not having rights to inheirit if the soldier died on campaign amoung other things. It took a long time for soldiers to gain the right to get married, and only when recruitment became problematic and the government had to make concessions to keep manpower levels up.

I would prohibit marrage for enlisted in any Imperial service, but not local armies or navies. Considering that those entering Imperial service are getting a once in a lifetime opportunity to get a foot in the door of interstellar society. I'd allow officers to get married because the Imperium is not a classless society and RHIP is alive and well.

Letting anyone get married though opens up a host of issues. First, the cost of moving families if a ship or unit is redeployed. Another is what happens if a service member is KIA weeks or months from home port, does the surviving spouse owe all that pay back to the service? Not allowing marrage also eliminates the need for an expense Servicemembers Group Life Insurance program.

Just my thoughts,

Rob
 
IMTU...

A Noble must appointee an heir as soon as he or she (it?) is out of their minority (16 for humans). This heir must be confirmed by their Liege lord. For example, Baron A is vassal to Duke B. Baron A clones himself and declares the clone his heir. Duke B is cool with this, so the clone of Baron A inherits. Heir may be changed at anytime, assume your Liege Lord agrees with your decision.

On contracts. The Imperial noble in charge of your area is the "court of appeals" for interplanetary disputes. For example, merchant A and merchant B have a dispute over whose laws were in effect when their contract was signed. The may appeal to Baron A, and he will decide the case. Most nobles employ a factor to handle these appeals. If the merchants don't like the decision, they may appeal the decision to Baron A's Liege lord, Duke B. In theory they can continue to appeal all the way to the Emperor himself (yeah... fat chance he'll hear your case). Depending on the noble (remember the age of majority is 16 :eek: ), the individuals in the case, may or may not wish to dispute the ruling of local courts.
 
Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
Officers are strongly encouraged into matrimony, as this allows for understanding of subordinates cares. AFter O5(CDR) this is a prerequisite for Captain. Marine officers follow suit this way IMTU as well, as does the Imp Army.
Hmmm ... the potential for weirdness is right there. With a loose definition of 'marriage' this makes things reasonably open, but there would still be officers who NEED to get married to get that promotion to Captain.

Opens up all sorts of possibilities ...
 
yeah....everyone has to marry a HIVER to make Captain!!!!.....you go first Liam!!!....heheheheheh :eek: :eek: :eek:

politically correct???? not even on YOUR life!!!! :eek: :eek:
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Originally posted by trader jim:
yeah....everyone has to marry a HIVER to make Captain!!!!.....you go first Liam!!!....heheheheheh :eek: :eek: :eek:

politically correct???? not even on YOUR life!!!! :eek: :eek:
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I see your hiver spouse, and raise you one K'Kree family in-laws!
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