How is 5th Edition?

[DuneFox]

To begin I am a huge Traveller fan been playing since the LBBs.
Lately I have been playing MGP version but I now have the latest (5th Edition Traveller) and I am going through it.

Seems like the most complex game I have ever seen!!!!
WOW!!!

How is the game? I really want to give this a try but others may not want to if they think the game was too complex!! Someone at the local hobby store said it was Space Opera on crack!!! Ouch!!!

I am just trying to figure it out as I have had to reread the first 100 pages twice already and still not sure...

Not knocking it just trying to get it!

Todd

 

[atpollard]

Short answer:

Book is hard.
Game play is not as hard.
Rules have some issues that are being resolved (for example brawling may not work like you expect).

People with more experience (than me) should be along to help.
Specific questions will get a quick specific answer.

Welcome and Good Luck.

 

[aramis]

To begin I am a huge Traveller fan been playing since the LBBs.
Lately I have been playing MGP version but I now have the latest (5th Edition Traveller) and I am going through it.

Seems like the most complex game I have ever seen!!!!
WOW!!!

How is the game? I really want to give this a try but others may not want to if they think the game was too complex!! Someone at the local hobby store said it was Space Opera on crack!!! Ouch!!!

I am just trying to figure it out as I have had to reread the first 100 pages twice already and still not sure...

Not knocking it just trying to get it!

Todd

It's far from the most complex I've read, but there are some parts I've found too hard to bother to figure out, since I already hate the basic task mechanic.

FGU's Space Opera was as complex in many areas, without a unified mechanic, for example.
Rolemaster, like T5, is heavily table-driven, giving a false impression of more complexity than is actually present.

Note that there is a major paradigm shift if going from another version of Traveller to T5.

For me, T5 is a collection of tools I'll backport to MT.

 

[David Johansen]

It isn't really, none of the makers are complex as Fire Fusion and Steel. They don't always work quite as well but it's coming along.

Slowly.

I guess that's the real answer to your question.

It's coming along slowly.

 

[Timerover51]

Presently, I am going back to the 1977 rules, but I do have T5 in its latest version. I view it as a tool box to pick and choose what to use. Work is being done on a starter set, but that may be a while yet.

There has been a lot of errata collected for the latest version, but the death of Don McKinney has slowed that down.

People are using it, and if you have questions, you will get answered here very quickly, although the answers may not agree with each other.

It appears complex do to a lot of what I view as extraneous material, but if you have the basic Traveller rules mechanism done, you should be able to navigate it.

 

[OjnoTheRed]

I agree with atpollard, it's less complex in gameplay than it looks in the book. Like most role play systems as long as you're across what you need for the characters, the task mechanic(s), the setting and your props, you'll be fine for most situations.

Could definitely be improved by the upcoming starter edition to make the rules less intimidating. You really don't need all of The Brick to make a start. I've been running the The Traveller Adventure ported into T5 with only minor problems; I have cooked up an unarmed combat system because otherwise everyone stands around punching each other with no damage.

Compared to MT and TNE there is a lot more abstraction. I generally think this is a healthy thing ... although I am fond of miniatures on tactical maps. The T5 personal combat rules as written take this away (we use miniatures just to visualise the situation, though).

While there are bugs in the rules I like it as a comprehensive and unified system. But did I mention there are bugs in the rules?

 

[robapol]

If they fix the task mechanic used in combat and supply some pre-made kit - especially kit and starships that were in CT to allow the use of CT materials - I can quite easily seeing it becoming the best Traveller ever, period.

Just need Marc and fellow chaps to have a long hard look at ground combat, fix it and playtest it - then the skies the limit!

 

[David Johansen]

They did that. They made it worse.

 

[Timerover51]

They did that. They made it worse.

I go by, if you do not like the combat system, adapt one that you do like and use that. I use the combat system in Don Featherstone's "Skirmish Wargaming". It covers everything from fists to machine guns and grenades.

 

[robapol]

They did that. They made it worse.

Alas I don't have access to 5.09.

What's worse? Unrealistic results like 5.0? Or something else entirely?

I do have T4 lying around but never played it due to CT. However, I have heard it's combat is task based too? Might take a quick look-see, maybe it can be substituted for T5's?

RobP

 

[David Johansen]

The problem is that a game with fixed initiative by side in which it is very hard to miss becomes very one sided unless the side with initiative has significantly under powered weapons or the side without has significantly over powered armor.

It's the old roll to win the game issue from Warhammer 40000 3rd edition where the side that loses the roll to go first generally doesn't have enough left to win the game at the start of their first turn.

There's also some bad organization and unclear writing. The initiative rules appear about ten pages into the combat system. The chapter heading is after a page of vital data.

After waiting a year for a committee to fix things it's a pretty big disappointment.

And according to Blade Maker a Moose is still the most effective anti-tank weapon in the game.

 

[Daddicus]

If you don't have access to 5.09, I would ask FFE if they're willing to sell it on CD. There's no printed version, but I'm just printing off what I need. Kind of making my own LBBs.

 

[aramis]

If you don't have access to 5.09, I would ask FFE if they're willing to sell it on CD. There's no printed version, but I'm just printing off what I need. Kind of making my own LBBs.

if you order the T5 CD, you'll be getting T5.09 unless you specifically ask for T5.0.

 

[kilemall]

And according to Blade Maker a Moose is still the most effective anti-tank weapon in the game.

Respect the moose!

 

[cuTTer]

How is the game? I really want to give this a try but others may not want to if they think the game was too complex!! Someone at the local hobby store said it was Space Opera on crack!!! Ouch!!!

I am just trying to figure it out as I have had to reread the first 100 pages twice already and still not sure...

Not knocking it just trying to get it!

Todd

The game, in the places where the tires meet the road, is not that complex or hard to understand. Unfortunately the peculiarity of some of the results, especially generated by the likes of combat, may make you doubt you're doing things right, as they go against both common sense and rational extrapolation.

 

[Daddicus]

if you order the T5 CD, you'll be getting T5.09 unless you specifically ask for T5.0.

I was hoping that was the case. I couldn't find an official statement to that effect, but it seemed logical.

Thanks for the confirmation!

 

[robapol]

if you order the T5 CD, you'll be getting T5.09 unless you specifically ask for T5.0.

I bought both the CD and the book as soon as both were available, so I'm firmly stuck with 5.0. Will wait for the next printed edition to hit the shelves.

 

[aramis]

I bought both the CD and the book as soon as both were available, so I'm firmly stuck with 5.0. Will wait for the next printed edition to hit the shelves.

$7 to Marc will get you the update on CD; emailing him first is preferable. If you ordered the preview CD, or were a 5.0 KS Backer, emailing him will get you the electronic version of 5.09 via DTRPG.

 

[robapol]

Cool - I'll send him an email.

Just had time to go over the T4 combat rules last night and apart from the oddity that a rifle can be a lot easier to use than a pistol at close range, the system looks pretty sound.

Will have to playtest it this weekend.

I wonder how we got from T4 to T5 where we now seem to have an abundance of issues?

I think what has become clear is the move away from multiple combat tables to a simpler task based system.

Whilst pursuing this route will lead to rules that are artistically concise, I'm not sure that it is possible to get across the nuances found in table based combat into one that is essentially formulaic - at least not without the formula getting rather complex or the accompanying rules having many exceptions.

I know it might be the ye-olde approach, but T4 not-withstanding, I think there is a lot of merit to table based combat as seen in CT.