Hop and Skip Drives
- Thread starter Licheking
- Start date
Yep scratching my head a bit on this now that you've asked the question.
First of all we don't know what the weight of any component is. We deal in the Traveller Ton which is a unit of volume not mass.
Now on to an answer. Page 337 has the formula to work out drive parameters. Post 7.1 errata the formula for Jump drive tonnage is: (H x J/200) x5 +5 = tons
J is the Jump Number
H is Hull tonnage
My assumption is that you just use the Hop Number or Skip Number in place of the Jump Number. that means that these drives will work out to be the same volume as Jump Drives despite being much more powerful. This might not be completely logical but on the other hand Hop is TL17 and Skip is TL20 so maybe they are that small because they are high tech.
Cost for Jump Drives is 1MCr per ton. Now if in the same way as above a TL17 hop drive costs exactly the same as a TL9 Jump Drive that seems particularly unsatisfactory to me.
First of all we don't know what the weight of any component is. We deal in the Traveller Ton which is a unit of volume not mass.
Now on to an answer. Page 337 has the formula to work out drive parameters. Post 7.1 errata the formula for Jump drive tonnage is: (H x J/200) x5 +5 = tons
J is the Jump Number
H is Hull tonnage
My assumption is that you just use the Hop Number or Skip Number in place of the Jump Number. that means that these drives will work out to be the same volume as Jump Drives despite being much more powerful. This might not be completely logical but on the other hand Hop is TL17 and Skip is TL20 so maybe they are that small because they are high tech.
Cost for Jump Drives is 1MCr per ton. Now if in the same way as above a TL17 hop drive costs exactly the same as a TL9 Jump Drive that seems particularly unsatisfactory to me.
yes my point entirely, and yeah i know we deal in volume instead of mass, but weight is what i wrote meaning volume. Plus on the Drive table you can get an early Hop drive at 16, and it would seem a little odd if a Hop-1 would end up being smaller and cheaper than a Jump-6 which would happen if you use those formulas which are all based on Jump Drives.
Mhm I think something has been overlooked in providing no notes on Hop and Skip for the J-Drive formula.
A suggested fix would be to follow the way fuel requirements increase on p339, so for a Hop Drive volume would be x10 and Skip Drive volume would be x100.
I've checked back through the Beta docs and can't find anything to say these drives are bigger than normal Jump Drives
A suggested fix would be to follow the way fuel requirements increase on p339, so for a Hop Drive volume would be x10 and Skip Drive volume would be x100.
I've checked back through the Beta docs and can't find anything to say these drives are bigger than normal Jump Drives
And now for a bunny trail: I shouldn't be too concerned about pricing here, and there are several fuzzy reasons I think this.
First, the drives are working on different orders of magnitude. Ships with Hop drives will probably also need a Jump drive. Thus price per ton for the Hop drive is deceptive. Similar issues have the Skip drive.
Second, price is quite a bit less important than tech level, unless we're talking about orders of magnitude. Darnaluud's Axiom of Requirement: if you need the drive, you'll install the drive, price be damned.
Third, technological effects and stage effects sufficiently explain price stability. A TL-12 jump drive A is not a TL-24 jump drive A. (This might just be a part of my second point... I told you my reasons were fuzzy!)
First, the drives are working on different orders of magnitude. Ships with Hop drives will probably also need a Jump drive. Thus price per ton for the Hop drive is deceptive. Similar issues have the Skip drive.
Second, price is quite a bit less important than tech level, unless we're talking about orders of magnitude. Darnaluud's Axiom of Requirement: if you need the drive, you'll install the drive, price be damned.
Third, technological effects and stage effects sufficiently explain price stability. A TL-12 jump drive A is not a TL-24 jump drive A. (This might just be a part of my second point... I told you my reasons were fuzzy!)
+1 - See the entry on "Fantastic Drive Governors" on pg. 370 bottom left column.
v/r
feld
Well damn!
But we do end up with a lot of deep pocket customers too. :devil:
My first official Axiom per the Prime Spacelord of the Admiralty. Don't remember saying it quite so eloquently, but yep, that is how it works.
But we do end up with a lot of deep pocket customers too. :devil:
I don't think so: p370 "Micro-Hop: The minimum Hop for a Hop Drive is slightly above the next lowest distance possible (= Jump-9)." The part I'm not clear on is whether you have to go in 10 pc increments or not: "A Hop-3 drive with a governor can achieve any distance from 10 parsecs to 30 parsecs." If not, then why the 10 (or 9.1) pc lower limit, aside from artificially trying to keep jump drives relevant? If you can do micro-jumps, then you should be able to do micro-hops. Either way it should be consistent.
On the other hand it doesn't really matter, since Hop takes a day instead of a week. Hop out 10 pc, then back in 10 in a very steep isosceles triangle, and your total distance is one (or more) parsecs, total time 2 days. It's the Skip and higher drives you'll need a jump drive for, because of scatter (which is a cute but annoying way of keeping jump drives relevant all the way up the tech levels, so you're never getting away from that one week thing).
On the other hand it doesn't really matter, since Hop takes a day instead of a week. Hop out 10 pc, then back in 10 in a very steep isosceles triangle, and your total distance is one (or more) parsecs, total time 2 days. It's the Skip and higher drives you'll need a jump drive for, because of scatter (which is a cute but annoying way of keeping jump drives relevant all the way up the tech levels, so you're never getting away from that one week thing).
According to the most recent Errata (0.71) for this section:
p. 370, Managing Jump Drives, Jump Governors, Fantastic Drive Governors (correction): The last two sentences should read, “A Hop-3 drive without a governor can hop 30 parsecs. A Hop-3 drive with a governor can hop 10, 20 or 30 parsecs.”
Also, in the T5-Beta version, this "discreet" Hop-level structure was more explicit.
Combined with the Skip Drive (and how it works in discreet 100pc skips), I suppose that means that once you achieve Skip Drive technology, there is nowhere in the galaxy that isn't a mere "Hop, Skip, and a Jump away" (literally).
And beyond that the technology is more efficient by Leaps and Bounds. 
As to the second point, while you could use the isosceles-triangle hop concept, it may be easier to simply point your hop drive in the direction of your target's 100D gravity well and "force-precipitate" out of Hop Space at the edge of the intended destination's gravity limit.
Unofficially, I prefer Licheking's idea.
In fact (unofficially), I rather like the following House Rule:
Each "Order of Magnitude" of the Drive-type represents the number of degrees of freedom you have in choosing parameters for the operation of a particular level of "hyperdrive".
For example:
1) Jump Drive is Order-"0" (i.e. Jumps are multiples on the order of 100). It operates exclusively as canonically stated (i.e. no degrees of freedom).
2) Hop Drive is Order-"1" (i.e. Hops are multiples on the order of 101). Your degree of freedom is:
a) You can do Hops in 10's of pc per week, or
b) You can do Hops in "1's" of pc per day.
3) Skip Drive is Order-"2" (i.e. Skips are multiples on the order of 102). Your degrees of freedom are:b) You can do Hops in "1's" of pc per day.
a) You can do Skips in 100's of pc per week, or
b) You can do Skips in 10's of pc per day (this is the canonical version of the Hop Drive), or
c) You can do Skips in "1's" of pc per 3.5 hours.
4) Leap Drive is Order-"3" (i.e. Leaps are multiples on the order of 103). Your degrees of freedom are:b) You can do Skips in 10's of pc per day (this is the canonical version of the Hop Drive), or
c) You can do Skips in "1's" of pc per 3.5 hours.
a) You can do Leaps in 1000's of pc per week, or
b) You can do Leaps in 100's of pc per day, or
c) You can do Leaps in 10's of pc per 3.5 hours, or
d) You can do Leaps in "1's" of pc per 30 minutes.
Etc. b) You can do Leaps in 100's of pc per day, or
c) You can do Leaps in 10's of pc per 3.5 hours, or
d) You can do Leaps in "1's" of pc per 30 minutes.
This is an option for those who don't want excessive travel speed to accumulate quite as quickly as you move up the TL-scale. What this does is "bump" the canonical performance of the fantastic drives up a level or more, but it allows for astrogational flexibility. It would be up to the GM to decide if the Astrogator can choose from these choices at the time he is plotting his Jump, or whether the drive must be specifically designed for one of these options at the time of construction (possibly allowing different species to have developed alternate approaches to the same drive-type).
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mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
As per the rules as written the 100D precipitation rule makes the hop and skip drive usable for any distance up to their maximum, provide you can aim for a large object to pull you out of jump space.
Even insystem jumps, just aim for the moon
Even insystem jumps, just aim for the moon
Dialogue62
SOC-5
using grav wells for short distances
Of course, that will make a mis-skip or a mis-hop quite spectacular.
Of course, that will make a mis-skip or a mis-hop quite spectacular.
