Has anyone used Robots?
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Original_Carl
SOC-12
I have a player who's made a number of robots under T5. He's started using 5.09. I'll see about getting some examples from him.
Yes...
I need to delve into that chapter for real since I have a few Machine Life Citizens in my ATU.
I had a Robo-Citizen player in my ATU game. Came out to about a MCr, but he was also a Premium Sophontiod.
I need to delve into that chapter for real since I have a few Machine Life Citizens in my ATU.
One issue I want to see addressed is this:
All components are constant volume.
For a 100 unit robot (roughly human sized) a Standard Bony Interior Skeleton is 12 Units in the 50 unit torso.
For a 200 unit robot a Standard Bony Interior Skeleton is 12 Units in the 100 unit torso.
For a 50 unit robot a Standard Bony Interior Skeleton is 12 Units in the 25 unit torso. .
Same for Muscles, Limbs and Manipulators. am I missing something or should these values be per 100 units?
Calculating size and Size of Sophontiform Components is dealt with on p.577
p.566 says there are four Sophont Size classes:
Small 3D
Standard 6D
Oversize !2D
Titan 14D+
Running that through the Typical Size calculation for Robots typical size on p.577 we get
Small 36 Units
Standard 72 Units
Oversize 144 Units
Titan 168+ Units
A Small Sophontoid Robot will therefore have a torso of 17 Units filled with a 12 Unit Standard Bony Interior Skeleton.
A Titan Sophontoid Robot will have a torso of 84 Units filled with a 12 Unit Standard Bony Interior Skeleton.
See where my suspension of disbelief breaks? :coffeesip:
Also on a related note, are all the unused units available for storage or installation of equipment?
All components are constant volume.
For a 100 unit robot (roughly human sized) a Standard Bony Interior Skeleton is 12 Units in the 50 unit torso.
For a 200 unit robot a Standard Bony Interior Skeleton is 12 Units in the 100 unit torso.
For a 50 unit robot a Standard Bony Interior Skeleton is 12 Units in the 25 unit torso. .
Same for Muscles, Limbs and Manipulators. am I missing something or should these values be per 100 units?
Calculating size and Size of Sophontiform Components is dealt with on p.577
p.566 says there are four Sophont Size classes:
Small 3D
Standard 6D
Oversize !2D
Titan 14D+
Running that through the Typical Size calculation for Robots typical size on p.577 we get
Small 36 Units
Standard 72 Units
Oversize 144 Units
Titan 168+ Units
A Small Sophontoid Robot will therefore have a torso of 17 Units filled with a 12 Unit Standard Bony Interior Skeleton.
A Titan Sophontoid Robot will have a torso of 84 Units filled with a 12 Unit Standard Bony Interior Skeleton.
See where my suspension of disbelief breaks? :coffeesip:
Also on a related note, are all the unused units available for storage or installation of equipment?
I would say you are quite correct: all values appear to be calibrated to a standard number of units.
In fact, they might be calibrated to a wrong number of standard units, as well: at a certain point, Traveller5 moved from sophont volume being based on human = 100, to volume in liters (and mass in kg), so human = 72.
So I suspect all values should be in liters, except for interior structural elements like skeleton and muscles, which should be in percentages.
I suspect that the Robots chapter was based on an earlier draft, and was never updated. Therefore we have ERRATA to gather and report on.
KNOWN ROBOT ERRATA
Page 581, R-05 Robots Senses, Sense Strings, Sense (correction): The first sense listed should be "Vision", not "ision".
Page 582, R-06 Robots Basics, C Skins (review): Do the KCr/Units required for Armor and Double Armor seem low? Is there a reason for using Armor/Double Armor rather than Armor-1/Armor-2?
That's it.
In other words, I have work to do.
In fact, they might be calibrated to a wrong number of standard units, as well: at a certain point, Traveller5 moved from sophont volume being based on human = 100, to volume in liters (and mass in kg), so human = 72.
So I suspect all values should be in liters, except for interior structural elements like skeleton and muscles, which should be in percentages.
I suspect that the Robots chapter was based on an earlier draft, and was never updated. Therefore we have ERRATA to gather and report on.
KNOWN ROBOT ERRATA
Page 581, R-05 Robots Senses, Sense Strings, Sense (correction): The first sense listed should be "Vision", not "ision".
Page 582, R-06 Robots Basics, C Skins (review): Do the KCr/Units required for Armor and Double Armor seem low? Is there a reason for using Armor/Double Armor rather than Armor-1/Armor-2?
That's it.
In other words, I have work to do.
Hi Liche-King,
*** Would you share those? I'd love to see the robots of 101 Robots in T5 format... ***
Thank you!
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
I submitted that errata on volume for the pre T5.71 and T5.8 errata so its known about.
The volume is calculated in relation to characteristic dice so I'm just using 100 units for ease of calculation.
Ditching the term units for liters makes lots of sense as then it becomes easy to port ThingMaker equipment into the design.
On Armor skin I'd say it should be possible to take these multiple times until you run out of volume. Armor-1 will stop Bullet-0 and give some protection against Bullet-1, which is more than Sophont skin does....
As I recall from an earlier draft; you can design an amored suit/dress for a robot using ArmorMaker the same way you design a case for an object in ThingMaker.
Other things that need looking at are the absence of any speed listing for any of the "CONNECTORS AND UNDERCARRIAGES" on p.582. The Lifters should be about Speed 3 but its not clear if this is the case or are they a direct replacement for whatever Speed rating the limbs gave?
Something related to this for future consideration is; what's the speed rating of a Grav-belt? p.632
Here are the errata I found for Robots.
ERRATA p502: Robots are listed as TL13; however, they surely exist long before, so this must mean "sentient" robots.
SUGGESTION p575, QuickBuilding Strangeform Robots, first para, last sentence. "To create one, select a vehicle and install in it a brain." Is it better to say to install a Universal Nexus and a Robot Head?
SUGGESTION p580, Table A, Skeletons. Consider renaming "Lightweight" to "Light" and "Strong" to "Heavy", to go along with the Bulk modifiers in GunMaker, ArmorMaker, VehicleMaker, etc.
SUGGESTION p580, Table A, Skeletons. Consider codes for the skeleton types. Suggestions: L for Fluid Interior, F for Flexible, B for Bony, X for Exoskeleton, and S for Exterior Shell.
SUGGESTION p580, Table B, Muscles. Is there room for a "Double Burst Mode"? (Vig +6), Units +2?
ERRATA / SUGGESTION p580, Table C, Limb Sizes. Does size relate to strength here? Suggestion: Equate size to Strength? For example, an Arm of Size 6 has a Strength of 6.
SUGGESTION p580, Table D, Manipulators. Add a new entry, "Weapon Carrier" or "Weapon Mount" for carrying a large GunMaker weapon.
ERRATA p580, Table D, Manipulators. What is the "rating" of a Heavy Duty+ manipulator? What is it capable of handling?
SUGGESTION p581, Robot Senses, Table C. Is there a threshold beyond which the senses will in fact REQUIRE volume? For example, maxing out the sense constants and number of senses?
SUGGESTION p581, Robot Senses, Table C, Antennae. Perhaps antennae should confer a slight BENEFIT. Or, alternately, be REQUIRED when a Sense Constant is 20 or greater. Or something.
ERRATA, p582, Table D, Body Additions, notes section. A note for "Radio" appears twice.
SUGGESTION, p585, Table A, Power Sources. Can a robot have an Ambient Cell?
ERRATA, p585, Table A, Power Sources. The "Max Units" is still based on Human=100. It should be re-calibrated to Human=72.
ERRATA, p585, Power Sources, notes, Electric (Alcohol Fuel Cell): "Suitable for low power". What limitation to design does that create? And what's the duration of power? Is that why "Max Units" is only 80?
ERRATA p502: Robots are listed as TL13; however, they surely exist long before, so this must mean "sentient" robots.
SUGGESTION p575, QuickBuilding Strangeform Robots, first para, last sentence. "To create one, select a vehicle and install in it a brain." Is it better to say to install a Universal Nexus and a Robot Head?
SUGGESTION p580, Table A, Skeletons. Consider renaming "Lightweight" to "Light" and "Strong" to "Heavy", to go along with the Bulk modifiers in GunMaker, ArmorMaker, VehicleMaker, etc.
SUGGESTION p580, Table A, Skeletons. Consider codes for the skeleton types. Suggestions: L for Fluid Interior, F for Flexible, B for Bony, X for Exoskeleton, and S for Exterior Shell.
SUGGESTION p580, Table B, Muscles. Is there room for a "Double Burst Mode"? (Vig +6), Units +2?
ERRATA / SUGGESTION p580, Table C, Limb Sizes. Does size relate to strength here? Suggestion: Equate size to Strength? For example, an Arm of Size 6 has a Strength of 6.
SUGGESTION p580, Table D, Manipulators. Add a new entry, "Weapon Carrier" or "Weapon Mount" for carrying a large GunMaker weapon.
ERRATA p580, Table D, Manipulators. What is the "rating" of a Heavy Duty+ manipulator? What is it capable of handling?
SUGGESTION p581, Robot Senses, Table C. Is there a threshold beyond which the senses will in fact REQUIRE volume? For example, maxing out the sense constants and number of senses?
SUGGESTION p581, Robot Senses, Table C, Antennae. Perhaps antennae should confer a slight BENEFIT. Or, alternately, be REQUIRED when a Sense Constant is 20 or greater. Or something.
ERRATA, p582, Table D, Body Additions, notes section. A note for "Radio" appears twice.
SUGGESTION, p585, Table A, Power Sources. Can a robot have an Ambient Cell?
ERRATA, p585, Table A, Power Sources. The "Max Units" is still based on Human=100. It should be re-calibrated to Human=72.
ERRATA, p585, Power Sources, notes, Electric (Alcohol Fuel Cell): "Suitable for low power". What limitation to design does that create? And what's the duration of power? Is that why "Max Units" is only 80?
Hmmm. My gut reaction is a No. To explain, the idea is that the brain is installed in the driver's control console, a concept that is extensively explained under Brains and Consoles elsewhere. You are in effect making a robotic vehicle that can be driven.
The idea of the universal nexus is that its like an iPod or phone docking port you can take a pre existing robot and plug it in. Sort of like how a Starwars Astromec droid plugs into an X-wing. You're not creating a robotic vehicle, you're allowing a robot (head) to control or drive the vehicle.
at least that's how I see it. and you're proposed change has a knock on to several other chapters that reference brains and consoles.
How large a weapon? For a human form robot it shouldn't be bigger than portable. And if its a portable weapon does a robot fulfill the same criteria as Dress for handling a high recoil weapon?
On the same subject how do Robot strength and Dress and Armor Strength compare? An average PC in Dress or Armor will have an effective strength of ~70, whats the average strength of a human form robot (and remember you can put one in Dress or Armor). I think a Robot and Dress/Armor should have similar average strength for logic and game balance purposes.
Heavy Duty manipulators should either be a strength augmenter or give extra carrying capacity.
This probably shows my sci-fi influences but when I think of antenna on a robot I think of Briareos from Appleseed; "He has eight eyes mounted on his head, four in his face (the large sensor in the middle is actually his nose) two at the base of his "rabbit ear" sensors, facing backward, and two at the tips, which allow him to safely look around corners"
Looking around corners or over and through cover if sight is the sense was the benefit I assumed. I'm not sure if there's any inherent idea that senses are magnified if they're on an antenna.
Just reading this line while looking at the above on p. 581 "The Major Senses. Vision, Hearing, and Smell are located in a single cluster.". Is that a problem? What if the designer wants eyes all around the robot hull, or eyes at the end of a fingertip? Clustering major senses assumes a "head" appendage that functions as a head.
I'd say yes but not as a primary power source. Probably as a back-up or constant charger to an Electric Daily Power Cell. Alternatively pattern it after how broadcast power works; "Electric power is supplied by [an Ambient as long as there is a light source]. Backup power cells provide 2-12 minutes of operation if the field fails." See p.625 for Ambient Cell rules.
So the question in my mind is: is the Universal Nexus a viable option, then? If it is, it should at least be mentioned in the same breath as "building robotic vehicles". Otherwise, the nexus should be removed from the text entirely. (And perhaps radio and meson control should be options)
If its a sophont-form robot why doesn't it just sit in the driver's seat and use the controls or link directly (hard link, wireless, IR or any of the other options listed for computers on p.516).
On the other hand....
If the idea is to build a robot PC/NPC that can become other vehicles then the nexus serves a purpose. Suppose a patron's robot butler Geeves, can plug his head into a Legged Strangeform body becoming a 10m tall mech bodyguard, or into the body of a medical robot specialy designed to treat the patron's rare disease.
don't forget its not just about putting a robot brain into a vehicle but also onto other robot bodies.
I like the utility of the nexus and I think there is a place for it.
Where I usually think about a Nexus is when I have a robot that is most definitely not a sophontiform, and in fact is the size of a vehicle, but has manipulators. In that case, the metaphor that applies is a nexus "connecting" a robot torso to a vehicle which has a brain installed in a console.
Baroun Tardis
SOC-12
Can anyone clue me in on why the sense prices are so high?
170kcr for a webcam and OpenCV software seems a bit steep
170kcr for a webcam and OpenCV software seems a bit steep
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
Look at the date when the book was published.
That might be your first clue.
What seemed like "impossibly fabulous far future tech" even 20 years ago is starting to looks like "fantastically useful near future tech" that ought to be getting rolled out in the next 5 years.
Baroun Tardis
SOC-12
The date when T5.10 was published?
uhm...
uhm...
and Traveller is really based on old pulp-style SF, though T5 reskinned it a bit, the origins are still there. And it just needs to be internally consistent, not reality consistent. It is not a science simulator. And as such, rule 0 can apply: make adjustments for your TU. There are interesting threads here about changing several Traveller concepts: ship costs, cargo/freight costs, fuel requirements, etc.
Although if you change enough things, for me at least it is no longer Traveller.
But yes: in terms of what we are capable of today, those costs do seem high. But perhaps there is more to it than Alexa/Siri/etc. How much do those assistants really cost? There was billions probably in the research and development, on-going costs that is being subsidized by other things. Using those allows the backing companies to sell personal data, so the cost is not a one and done deal.
Although if you change enough things, for me at least it is no longer Traveller.
But yes: in terms of what we are capable of today, those costs do seem high. But perhaps there is more to it than Alexa/Siri/etc. How much do those assistants really cost? There was billions probably in the research and development, on-going costs that is being subsidized by other things. Using those allows the backing companies to sell personal data, so the cost is not a one and done deal.
