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GT Humaniti: Canon Inconsistencies

I just picked up Gurps Traveller Humaniti, which is pretty much as you'd expect (lots if interesting stuff, below-par production values*).

However, there are some canon inconsistencies concerning the Dynchia which, to be fair, seem to predate GURPS involvement.

The Dynchia are a minor human race with a warrior code of honour, who are described as being placed in the neutral area between the Hivers, Imperials and Solomani. A discussion in the GT book admits that this causes problems, but advises their placement in Leonidae sector, subsector M, with some spill into the Hinterworlds.

This appears to agree with their original description in JTAS-24. I don't have this, but found a summary from a secondary source here

However, this places it precisely into the territory of the Council of Leh Perash, as described in the Hinterworlds article in Challenge 39.

This seems to leave a number of possible responses:
1) Regard the CoLP as indentical with the Dynchia Comitia. The Hinterworlds source however describes the CoLP as dominated by a minor alien race, the Jenda (barely detailed in the article), so this doesn't really work.
2) Ditch the CoLP and insert the Dynchia, but this overturns Hinterworld canon.
3) Move the Dynchia somewhat, though this overturns the JTAS canon.
4) Forget the Dynchia altogether.

I'd tend to (3); I'm working on Leonidae, since my campaign is in the Hinterworlds, and I'm considering placing the Dynchia mainly in subsector J.

Anyone throw some more light on this?

* mediocre maps, variable art standards (actually, in this particular product, uniformly below average), poor binding.
 
Yeah - I've already finished my copy of Leonidae based off a canon dotmap - now comes SJG to throw a wrench into it.
Stupid Amazon won't have a new copy till the middle of freaking August... :mad:

The original writeup in JTAS - issue 24, CLEARLY states by a note from LKW that the article:
"...was prepared without reference to the Atlas of the Imperium, and the data given will not completely agree with it..."
There was no 'Dynchia Comitia' in official canon. Now there is supposed to be?? :mad:

Council of Leh Perash -

Protruding its boundaries into the severl subsectors, the Council of Leh Perash is a Hiver client state spread across 42 systems--eight of which lie in the Hinterworlds. This state takes its name from the meeting which gave birth to the state. Humans and human minor races compose only 20 percent of the council's population, with the other 80 percent being Jenda (a minor alien
race indigenous to the realm) and other Federation races. <Challenge 39>

Nope - not the CoLP...
-MADDog
 
To the best of my available knowledge, I put the little punks here, with NO state...
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> Melantris 2733 A6669C7-C D Hi 402 Na </pre>[/QUOTE]That put it in Leonidae Subsector P - Melantris.
It places them up alongside the Ithklur Aexzz, the Ithklur client state that the Federation maintains as a formidable boundry...

Note that it leaves a state at each of the 'corners' of the sector with most of the middle a kind of independant 'pirate laden' area. So I guess if we decide to, we COULD give them a state inside Leonidae...

-MADDog
 
I take it that the canon dot map source is the Atlas of the Imperium, which I unfortunately don't have access to.

I've been unable to find any dot maps of Leonidae online, so I'm currently playing with my own, which preserves the shape of the "corner states" as obtained from a map at the HIWG Quadrant IV page, but is otherwise non-canon. It's into the middle of that that I was considering dumping the Dynchia.

Do you know any other source than the printed AotI? The reprint seems to have vanished off into the distance....

(PS - that note from LKW is also referenced in the GT product, but their solution to the problem is unsatisfactory. The "Comitia" described is indeed a multi-world state, and is described as being close to the Ithklur client state.)
 
Originally posted by ninthcouncil:
I take it that the canon dot map source is the Atlas of the Imperium, which I unfortunately don't have access to.

I've been unable to find any dot maps of Leonidae online, so I'm currently playing with my own, which preserves the shape of the "corner states" as obtained from a map at the HIWG Quadrant IV page, but is otherwise non-canon. It's into the middle of that that I was considering dumping the Dynchia.

Do you know any other source than the printed AotI? The reprint seems to have vanished off into the distance....

(PS - that note from LKW is also referenced in the GT product, but their solution to the problem is unsatisfactory. The "Comitia" described is indeed a multi-world state, and is described as being close to the Ithklur client state.)
Yeah, I don't have the Atlas either...I suppose MVM could help resolve the issue if FFE would HURRY UP AND RELEASE THE REPRINT ALREADY!
;)
But I got my dotmap from LeRoy...
http://home.earthlink.net/~ngc5139/FDA/new/q-iv-jmp.gif

The JTAS article states that the Dynchia Homeworld, Melantris, is in Melantris Subsector at 0603 - Problem is, Melantris is subsector P according to the info I could dredge up, and there is NO 0603 world in either A or P subsectors. A would put it next to the Cytrialin Unity, P next to the Ithklur Aexzz... It would make some logical sense to put it in the center of the sector, as right now all I have is 8 subsectors filled with Non-Aligned worlds and Pirate hangouts...

<I was hoping Falkayn was going to post my copy, but I halted it when I found out G:T Humaniti was resurrecting the Dynchia for a big part...It is pretty good :D >

-MADDog

-------------------------------------------------
"First ponder, then dare."
-Herman Von Moltke
 
Thats the first review of sjg humaniti i ve read in the boarsd....stilll???.......should i buy it??

Great scholorship.....


Wow...look at all the blue dots..makes my eyes go crossed!!! ;)
file_21.gif
 
I've not yet read the whole thing, which is why I've avoided doing a full review.

However, just to upset MADDog again, I can report that one of the other races (Kargol, completely new?) have also been placed in Leonidae - homeworld at 1205, in this case. Since they've got high tech and control 12 worlds, this makes a difference. I think I'm going to ignore them.
 
Originally posted by ninthcouncil:
I've not yet read the whole thing, which is why I've avoided doing a full review.
However, just to upset MADDog again, I can report that one of the other races (Kargol, completely new?) have also been placed in Leonidae - homeworld at 1205, in this case. Since they've got high tech and control 12 worlds, this makes a difference. I think I'm going to ignore them.
Kargol?? Never heard of them...But I say again, LKW should know better - He's the one who pointed out that the Dynchi violated canon to begin with...
My map shows no world whatsoever at 1205....
Maybe I'm wrong, but I won't know until AotI comes out...
I like LEonidae better as a primary pirate lair...

-MADDog
 
Originally posted by MADDog:
My map shows no world whatsoever at 1205....
Maybe I'm wrong, but I won't know until AotI comes out...
FWIW Atlas of the Imperium (as published by GDW in 1984) didn't contain a map of Leonidae sector. Presumably the scheduled AotI reprint will not either. I'm not sure what exactly is going to be included in the upcoming Second Survey book from FFE but I suspect it will only cover the same 35 sectors presented in the original Atlas.

AFAIK there are NO official/canonical starmaps of Leonidae sector. Leroy Guatney may claim his map is canonical but don't believe it without a confirmation from Marc Miller or Loren Wiseman (Leroy's views on Traveller canon are both very idiosyncratic and very controversial -- if you don't know what I'm talking about, consider yourself lucky).
 
Well, if it's not in AotI, then
IT'S MINE...ALL MINE!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
I'm first! The canon goes to me!!!
<more maniacal laughter>
And since it's only Gurps, Who cares what it says....
:D
The Dynchia were discounted from the OTU eons ago, there they shall remain...
file_23.gif


Does this mean, since the humans have popped up everywhere in the galaxy like mushrooms, I can put unique tribes of Vargr all over the coreward sectors??


Mine! all Mine...hahahahaha
-MADDog
 
Originally posted by MADDog:
<snip>
Does this mean, since the humans have popped up everywhere in the galaxy like mushrooms, I can put unique tribes of Vargr all over the coreward sectors??


Mine! all Mine...hahahahaha
-MADDog
Must resist impulse, must... resis...

file_23.gif


Well sure MADDog, maybe you could even find a planet to put down a rare tribe of Vargr with intelligence...

file_21.gif


Hey, is that a hand canon, my what a large barrel, and the inside is so clean and shiny, why I can see the bullet at the other end...

:eek:
 
I had the same reaction when I recieved my copy in the mail. Not only do they stick the Dynchia in Leonidae, but they've got Kargol up at 1205. I'm inclined to stick the D's in subsctor J and maybe, MAYBE, have them make a cameo in my Hinters campaign. The CoLP stays.
 
I buried them in sector P...
That way the Ithklur can keep em inline...
file_23.gif


Never heard of these other dudes...
Maybe they are a cossbreed with the Hivers?
:D
Seriously, canon talks about the Lamura Teg being in Leo, what happened to them???

(STILL waiting for GT: H from Amazon....)

-MADDog
 
For what it's worth, we doesn't consider the Dynchia or Kargol sections of Humaniti (or a few others, for that matter) to be very high in the canon hierarchy.

The conflict between the original Dynchia writeup and other Classic canon is already well-known.

The Kargol appear to have been invented by their author for this book. The author originally had them in Glimmerdrift Reaches, but that seemed likely to cause headaches for the guys here at QLI, so I moved them. They went in Leonidae because there isn't a lot of authoritative canon on that sector already, and it seemed reasonable to put them somewhere around there on the map.

So use them if you like them, change them however you want, ignore them if you wish. That's always a good principle to follow with Traveller canon anyway.
 
Thanks for the input Jon - IMTU the Dynchia are in, but moved to Leonidae J and therabouts, but the Kargol I'll pass on, especially as their genetics schtick is also the niche of the Jenda, out of the Hinterworlds articles.

I was particularly glad to have some detailed stuff on the Geonee, even though they aren't local to my campaign. After all, they're the Ancients, aren't they? ;)
 
No
We're talking about canon.

3D is a red herring. The game uses a 2D map because of <insert one of a million reasons>.
If I wanted to play a GAME in 3D, I'd have payed more attention to my college Calculus classes. I doubt anyone on this board could do the calculations for determining jump between 2 worlds in a 3D environment without a calculator. The beaty of Traveller is I can whip out a game with my LBB, a pencil, paper, and a couple of D6. Try that while figuring out Z and transform functions for figuring 3D navigation...No thanks.
3D? Others have tried before...
-MADDog
 
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