Grav Tanks

[whartung]

Nothing so satisfying as seeing tankers bailing out because a hand grenade was just drone delivered into the interior of the overheated troops inside an aged and poorly maintained MBT.

This is what makes me angry.

Politically, I honestly don't have a dog in this fight. Ethically, I was outraged seeing columns of armor streaming into Ukraine at the beginning because...streams of armor. Just not the way to "solve problems" anymore, IMHO.

I was moved watching the Ukrainian forces tear Russian columns apart. I felt for the Russian soldiers, their families, the staggering losses, on both sides, but we get to see the Russian losses streaming on TV. It's just horrific.

And I was honestly outraged when the Ukrainian forces took out the, what was it, a guided missile cruiser? With some bailing wire surface to surface cruise missile? Those sailors did not deserve that. That attack had no business doing anything to that cruiser. That cruiser is supposed to be designed to handle precisely that threat. And it didn't. Because of lack of training, lack of maintenance, lack of supplies, lack of caring from the mother county to those brave men.

To quote that doctor from "Lawrence of Arabia", "Outrageous".

I just watch this and shake my head and can only hope it ends sooner than later.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Politically, I honestly don't have a dog in this fight. Ethically, I was outraged seeing columns of armor streaming into Ukraine at the beginning because...streams of armor. Just not the way to "solve problems" anymore, IMHO.

That wasn't an invasion force. It was the deployment of an occupying army into a country that was supposed to have been corrupted into surrendering immediately. Except, the people who were to be doing the corrupting kept the money instead of buying favors, and so couldn't call them in when the time came.

Then their lack of logistics capacity kicked in...

 

[Dragoner]

It was, still is the poorest country in Europe, basically an economic collapse, and -20% pop decline since the fall. Neither has the industrial capacity to support a war, there has been outside help. Both countries lose no matter what the outcome. Only one country benefits, gathering intel, watching capabilities, foreign response. As Mao said: "The wise monkey sits on the mountain, and watches the tigers fight in the valley."

 

[Condottiere]

Putin knows that Russia is a country, but Russia with Ukraine, is an Empire.

Also, it seems, the toughest and best troops in the Soviet Union came from Ukraine.

They really want it back.

 

[Rupert]

That wasn't an invasion force. It was the deployment of an occupying army into a country that was supposed to have been corrupted into surrendering immediately. Except, the people who were to be doing the corrupting kept the money instead of buying favors, and so couldn't call them in when the time came.

Then their lack of logistics capacity kicked in...

Well, the corruption that resulted in many of their manoeuvre units being unable to actually manoeuvre due to shoddy equipment and lack of fuel kicked in. Then the poor (and also corruption-riddled) logistics kicked in.

And the spearhead units were very definitely invasion forces, complete with heavy armour and a lot of artillery support. But thanks to corruption and incompetence the Russians lost those good high-quality units almost immediately, and for little to nothing.

 

[Rupert]

It was, still is the poorest country in Europe, basically an economic collapse, and -20% pop decline since the fall. Neither has the industrial capacity to support a war, there has been outside help. Both countries lose no matter what the outcome. Only one country benefits, gathering intel, watching capabilities, foreign response. As Mao said: "The wise monkey sits on the mountain, and watches the tigers fight in the valley."

My initial thought, when Russia failed to immediately win, was that if he kept trying Putin's legacy would be Russia becoming a resource-extracting client state of China. So far, he's doing a pretty good job of making that assessment correct.

Putin knows that Russia is a country, but Russia with Ukraine, is an Empire.

Also, it seems, the toughest and best troops in the Soviet Union came from Ukraine.

They really want it back.

Ukraine was also where a great deal of the best educated people lived, and a lot of the USSR's high tech industry. Without it Russia has about half a high-tech industry, as does Ukraine. So yes, Putin and his 'mates' really want it. I won't say 'back', because Ukraine hasn't been 'Russia's' since the Tsars (the USSR not being Russia, despite what Putin may dream).

 

[Condottiere]

Costs tend to be somewhat murky in Traveller, if you try to figure out military spending.

On the planetary scale, what's actually in the inventory, and how much of it is operational, in general, and operational at any particular time.

The technological level(s), maintenance, and training of personnel.

Here we get into one of the tropes of science fiction, which Traveller also adopted, private military contractors.

If the planetary military hasn't quite kept up with potential threats, they can hire mercenaries to make up the difference.

The equipment that they either provide, or will crew, would tell us a lot about that planetary military's preparedness.

How many grav tanks are in the inventory, and how many are in an operational state.

 

[Dragoner]

My initial thought, when Russia failed to immediately win, was that if he kept trying Putin's legacy would be Russia becoming a resource-extracting client state of China. So far, he's doing a pretty good job of making that assessment correct.

Chess Grandmaster Garry Kasparov tweeted at Xi Jinping's visit to Moscow a few years back: "Govenor Pu Ting, of the far west province of Ru Xia, greets President Xi."

 

[Dragoner]

If the planetary military hasn't quite kept up with potential threats, they can hire mercenaries to make up the difference.

Then they can also turn around and march on the capital, best read Machiavelli's The Prince.

 

[atpollard]

I agree with EVERYTHING stated, but … THREAD CLOSED PENDING DISCUSSION