Galleys, which design system had them?

[coliver988]

And, Cr2000 difference in high passage tickets. That’s 10000 dollars in conversion today for a week in the space can.

Not getting celebrity entertainment show or an onboard pool or a holodeck. That leaves food.

Yeah, to me that is just one of the reasons life support is $$$ (or is that CrCrCr?) Food costs are subsumed into that cost.

I am enjoying this conversation, and especially the images of various galleys. Brings things to life.

When my son was in Scouts they spend a weekend at the ship in Charleston (I think...) anyway, the kitchen was fairly large but what struck me was the industrial mixer - large enough to sleep in. That and the recipe for 5000 chocolate chip cookies. Which I do have a (unclassified ) picture of somewhere.

 

[Rupert]

There are certainly issues with fresh food for long durations. Most fruits don't do well a week out.

But there are quite a number that do fine if conditions are managed right. That's why we can have bananas in places where they don't grow, and apples and pears completely out of season (oranges too, but quality really suffers). The first three are very convenient, because they will keep green for weeks (bananas) or months (the other two), but once warmed up and exposed to ethylene gas they ripen nicely.

 

[bookwyrm]

Weird huh?

It's not Weird, it's the Military.

 

[Badenov]

I think you're missing the point, well, at least my point.

The point is that food is important. That people will PAY for "good food". It's the last place to "save money". Food is a priority. Captains like to eat. (I don't know about you, but anecdotally, I like food. If you'd like a second opinion, I can present my cat and her point of view.) Processed, shelf stabilized foods are expensive. It's cheaper to use fresh and cook it. Bad cooks don't stay that way for long, because they don't like the results, and they have to eat it too. Children can scramble eggs.

If you have a Free Trader with 80 tons of cargo space and you're eating cheese crackers all week, its' worth re-purposing one of those dTons for a freezer, fridge, and a stove.

There are certainly issues with fresh food for long durations. Most fruits don't do well a week out. But frozen foods are quite palatable, and freezing is EASY on a starship. "Frank, go outside and grab that pack of frozen corn taped to the hull".

Specifically to Traveller, trips are measured, and portioned, into week long events. Submarines are an outlier, being stuck on the bottom for months on end. Our surface Navy is replenished often. The US Military has a long tail, food is an important aspect of it. It's not the 1850s with ships provisioned for 3 year journeys (and even they, given the opportunity, hunted and fished to get fresh meat).

I don't think I missed the point, because I agree with you. People will pay for good food (and do, based on ticket and stores prices, which was the point of my post). I agree with some of the other folks who point out that food-poor planets might charge you more than the fixed rate for stores replenticshment, but that's a detail not covered in the rules.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Weirdly, the lockers are not a classified item but the film I used, and the resulting pictures somehow were.

it might have been possible to determine the level of ambient radiation present based on abnormalities of the images, if the characteristics of the film were known
The camera might also have had some shielding properties, and knowing its characteristics would have enabled a more precise determination.

The amount of ambient radiation that the US considered tolerable for ship/sub crews would be valuable information.

The DOD used to give classified warnings to Kodak of upcoming nuclear weapons testing back in the day because fallout would mess up film manufacturing.

 

[kilemall]

Then if you use the system I posted, it has a modifier for the cost of food locally, as well as a rough guide to selection, you can use. Going to a food poor planet means the food costs way more and there is a limited selection available. That translates into You're eating greasy, tasteless, and expensive, protein cubes for the next three weeks...

I read that more as you stock up while on the reasonable price planets and have stocked stasis larders/not buying at the poor ones.

Should also have your mods impact speculation on food items.

 

[kilemall]

Yeah, to me that is just one of the reasons life support is $$$ (or is that CrCrCr?) Food costs are subsumed into that cost.

I am enjoying this conversation, and especially the images of various galleys. Brings things to life.

When my son was in Scouts they spend a weekend at the ship in Charleston (I think...) anyway, the kitchen was fairly large but what struck me was the industrial mixer - large enough to sleep in. That and the recipe for 5000 chocolate chip cookies. Which I do have a (unclassified ) picture of somewhere.

I forgot alcohol. HP passengers likely have run of the bar.

 

[Enoki]

I forgot alcohol. HP passengers likely have run of the bar.

I include one on my deck plans. But that's for high passage passengers. The middies (think economy class) get a bottle of the cheap stuff on the table in the common area and go from there, if they're lucky.

 

[Grav_Moped]

I include one on my deck plans. But that's for high passage passengers. The middies (think economy class) get a bottle of the cheap stuff on the table in the common area and go from there, if they're lucky.

Or pay per drink.

 

[kilemall]

Or pay per drink.

I thought about vending machines for mid passage but just too wasteful of space.

 

[kilemall]

Speaking of loading up, it occurs to me that we already have a means of storing delicate organics on board- cold berthing.

So imagine a proportion of the life support cost goes to a perishable food cold berthing system that isn’t anywhere as expensive as the actual sophont/animal one. A lower grade one, that isn’t normally on deck plans, and that further would be subsumed in the stateroom cost/space requirement.

It would be a higher grade of freezer, not normally doing freezer burn to the food yet preserving it potentially for years with power and supplies provided.

It would also be a series of something like say 1/2 cubic meter cells that would be ‘thawed’ out as a ration of meats and vegetables and transferred to refrigerators for a few days during consumption.

We already know that low berths require Cr100 supplies per person/freeze. This would be a lower level of care and not medical berthing, and roughly half a person per ration freeze, so call it Cr25 per cell.

So you can load up on the good stuff on the cheaper food planets and have it on tap weeks from now, and it fits in with a percentage of the life support cost.

Then a really fun thought hit- using the unused regular low berths to load up, kind of the spacer equivalent of the provisions loading scene in Das Boot.

Military vessels probably aren’t going to risk not having their frozen watch, but everyone else might take the trouble to get some fresh supplies in-something like the Leviathan mission for instance.

I’d probably retain the low berth spoilage roll to see if the food came out okay. Use the Steward skill for the cold cells, and Medic for the more complex low berths.

Probably morale rolls for crew getting the fresh stuff, and similar rolls for passengers particularly high passage. Rolling spoilage on all those space lobster meals is going to earn you a black hole on the reviews.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Just put this up last weekend in my recent fanfic thingy: (Also, new post in the narrative up now.)

“Something basic? How about a screwdriver with fresh-squeezed orange juice?” he asks from behind the bar.

“Fresh? From Feri, then?”

“Nope. Kinorb. Picked up a crate of Fast-Fogged oranges – they’ve been in biostasis for a few weeks, haven’t aged a bit. I can vouch for ‘em, had one just after takeoff.”

Writer's note: "Fast-Fog" is an aerosol preservative for organic foodstuffs, based on the chemistry of "Medical Fast Drug" if that's not clear from context.

 

[Enoki]

One I would expect to have been widely adopted by TL 7 or 8 and up is simply to irradiate many food products. Safe, simple, and makes long-term storage without spoilage possible. You simply vacuum seal the product in a container then hit it with a big dose of gamma or x-ray radiation to kill everything organic in it like bacteria. With no anerobic or aerobic bacteria etc., in the food product, there's nothing to produce spoilage so it lasts longer as only a chemical or other breakdown of the product itself is possible.

Food Irradiation: What You Need to Know

Irradiation does not make foods radioactive, compromise nutritional quality, or noticeably change the taste, texture, or appearance of food.

www.fda.gov

It isn't widely practiced on Earth simply because of a public fear of things nuclear.

 

[coliver988]

One I would expect to have been widely adopted by TL 7 or 8 and up is simply to irradiate many food products. Safe, simple, and makes long-term storage without spoilage possible. You simply vacuum seal the product in a container then hit it with a big dose of gamma or x-ray radiation to kill everything organic in it like bacteria. With no anerobic or aerobic bacteria etc., in the food product, there's nothing to produce spoilage so it lasts longer as only a chemical or other breakdown of the product itself is possible.

Food Irradiation: What You Need to Know

Irradiation does not make foods radioactive, compromise nutritional quality, or noticeably change the taste, texture, or appearance of food.

www.fda.gov

It isn't widely practiced on Earth simply because of a public fear of things nuclear.

and while I thought there could be some nutritional impact, at least according to that article, apparently not.

I'd have to say, food for thought.

 

[Enoki]

I thought about vending machines for mid passage but just too wasteful of space.

The steward puts something like this on the table in the common area with a sign "Make it last a week!"

 

[kilemall]

The steward puts something like this on the table in the common area with a sign "Make it last a week!"

Heh, quite possible something crass like that just to justify that Cr2000 differential.

The flavor text does say they get run of self-fixing meals, so not quite that, but definitely not premium ingredients or maybe even timing- precedence for fixing the high passage meals, mid passage later.

Judging from the LBB3 cost and overhead section, ordinary restaurant level food would be Cr70 per week and that’s with it prepared. Cr35 for a week of food to be prepared.

The high passage excellent cuisine standard assuming 3 meals a day would be Cr420-Cr1050.

So I would surmise the mid passage rations are actually pretty good, just doesn’t have the steward effort in fixing it.

That would go for the crew chow too since their food is paid out of the same life support budget. Add in say Cr75 costs for fresh food cold berthed and eating can be good- working passage might sound good to a crew member from one of your food poor ports.

Another thought- since life support covers two weeks but normally passengers are onboard for one, there is extra provision available at the end of the trip, normally.

So this presents an opportunity for another shipboard tradition- Final Meal.

As the ship transits back to normal space and there isn’t an immediate risk/threat requiring rationing the second week, passenger ships can break out an extra set of food to provide a sumptuous Final Meal- the best food and liquor equivalent.

The mid passengers still don’t get the catered steward experience but can fix out of the premium ingredients made available.

 

[Rupert]

Passengers are probably onboard for more like ten days, on average. Some will board right before take-off, but others will move in earlier. Then there's flight time to jump and from jump, etc. If only going to a world's 100 diameter limit that's not too bad (6 hours each side, assuming a 'stationary' jump), but if you're using stellar jump shadows it can be considerably longer (and they are canon, for what that's worth).

This does still leave a four-day 'bonus', though, and that'd be a hefty chunk of change over time, which makes me suspect that it's actually built into the given costings (which implies that a crew-heavy ship has a lower standard of living aboard than one with many passengers per crew member).

 

[Condottiere]

Did get some copy served on a regional flight.

 

[aramis]

I'll note that, if you're looking for the other meaning of galley (oared seacraft), Wet Navy for MT, in Challenge 53, 54, and 60, and Wood and Wind, Steel and Steam., also for MT, in challenge 61...