G-Carrier and APCs

[Blue Ghost]

Could someone please explain to me the difference between a G-Carrier and a grav APC? Might not a Bradley be considered a G-Carrier and an APC (minus the fact that it's a tracked vehicle).

This has always baffled me, because I never understood the need for different vehicles that essentially do the same thing.

But that's just my uninformed opinion. Clarification is welcome

 

[aramis]

G-Carrier, based upon what's been published, is a non-armored paramilitary gravitic personell carrier. Sort of the mini-bus.

A GAPC has considerably tougher skin.

that's about it.

One is civilian, maybe police and merc use; the other is military grade armor.

 

[Spinward Scout]

An APC usually doesn't have weapons, as far as I've always seen it. A G-Carrier is an all-purpose vehicle, used for personnel and light cargo with a dorsal weapon mount, but used more in quasi-military roles. At least this is how I see it IMTU.

Later,

Scout

 

[Tom Schoene]

Grav APCs certainly can be armed in Traveller. Consider the Imperial Marine Grav APC, for example. It's armed and armored to nearly battle tank levels.

In effect, the Grav APC is more like a modern infantry fighting vehicle, while the G-Carrier is more like an armored truck.

 

[Blue Ghost]

OK, in the old big black book the G-Carrier's listed as a military and paramilitary vehicle. Sometimes, but not always, mounting some kind of support weapon. In MT they seem to be more of a Bradley fighting vehicle type of thing, rather than a pure APC. In TNE I only see the APC listed in "The Emperor's Vehicles," and it's definately armed (it looks like one main turret in the aft, and two ancillary turrets mounted forward). I can't remember what MT had them listed as, as I sold my three basic MT books a long time ago, but DGP has a couple of G-Carriers and APCs alike listed.

Huh.

I guess it's just six of one, and half a dozen of the other, though DGP and CT seem to imply that a G-Carrier can carry more people than a regular old APC. I think I read something like 25 seats, or a double squad can be lifted via G-Carrier, verse a single squad for an APC.

Sooo... it would appear that a G-Carrier is a "suped" up form of a grav-APC, given the MT and GURPS Trav descriptions. Or perhaps a "grav" version of an ATV, that can, if so desired, be armed with some kind of support weapon on a pintel mount.

Interesting.

 

[Badbru]

I think they both more or less refer to the same thing. G Carrier or Grav Carrier or Grav Armoured Personel Carrier. In full written form the only difference is "Armoured Personel". I think of them as interchangable terms like APC/AFV/and Battle taxi. Incidentally your reference to Emperors arsenal is T4 not TNE. Grav powered personel carriers in TNE consist of the TL11 G-Carrier armed with a 2mj plasma craddle gun and something co axial too I think, or the Grav APC's in the Regency Vehicle guide, and ofcourse any that you may choose to design and build yourself with Fire Fusion & Steel.
Oh and almost forgot the wealth of G-Carriers and Grav APC's in Striker2 but harder to integrate because they use a different stat form/rating system grrr.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Woops. Oh my, it seems I cross connected my systems. DOH!

Anyway, I guess when it comes down to it, in terms of functionality, they are the same thing, but it seems some design particulars are different. Oh well

 

[womble]

One sentient's APC is another man's IFV... I think the IFV is a subset of APC, since it is an armoured vehicle designed to be able to carry personnel; you could say that an IFV is an APC with a weapon other than that of the troops it carries. IIRC, the term evolved to describe something with broader capabilities than early APCs like the M113.

 

[Badbru]

Broader capabilities than an M113?
Yeah, they FLY!

poor attempt at humour hopefully mitigated by being early morning where I am

 

[aramis]

The troop vehicle type argument runs to four sub-types:
troop transports which lack armor... and usually also weapons. (But the venerable GP and the hummer both blur that line)
battle taxis, APC armored personell carrier an armored box which deposits troops who then fight on foot.
IFV's or Infantry Fighting Vehicle combattants which carry demountable infantry; the infantry usually fight on foot, aka demounted. the vehicle also has some significnt armaments
ICV infantry Combat Vehicle an armored combattant which carries infantry which usually remain mounted, firing from inside.

The Bradley "IFV" borders between ICV and IFV.

the M113 is clearly a battle taxi during early use; by the 1980's, IFV versions had come about (at the cost of carried infantry load... eg: M113-TOW, can carry 6-8 instead of 8-12.

The vehicles in traveller almost aall seem to be TT, IFV or APC; there is no convinient rule for putting in firing ports...

teh GCarrier is a TT. like geeps and hummmers, it is often armed with a pintel mount.

teh various APC's are usually also lightly armed. The Astrin is a IFV... it fights in, drops its infantry, then supports them.
(both MT and TNE stats support this)

 

[Andrew Boulton]

G-carriers are armoured (according to Bk3), so they're APCs, not TTs. Maybe borderline IFV if you mount a decent weapon.

 

[aramis]

Under MT, they (the one in the basic set) are AV 10. Less than TL 12 BDress. FAR less than a decent tank (which is in the 50's), or the astrin (Which is 40). BTW, the trepida is only AV 40, as well...

Lets see, looking through 101 Vehicles....
Name (designated) AV-TL-Passengers
Trepida (Tank) 40G-E-0
Sepoy (APC) 23C-8-11
Storm Trooper (APC) 23C-8-12
Striker (GTank) 55D-9-0
Kariku (GCarrier) 24E-10-10
Gram (GAPC) 43E-B-12
Gram (GTank) 55E-B-1
Kuum (GAPC) 26F-C-10
Qiknavra (GTank) 40G-E-0
Firebolt (Grav Direct Fire Support Vehicle) 47G-E-0
Thundercracker (Grav Fire Support Vehicle) 56G-E-0
Lightninng (Grav Direct Fire Support Vehicle) 50G-E-0
Thunderer (Grav Fire Support Vehicle) 54G-E-0
Astrin (APC) 40G-E -10
Lancer Combat Vehicle (GTank & ICV) 50G-F-24
Empress (GAPC) 60G-F-10
Laggerhead (TrAFV) 26D-9-6
Resolve (GCarrier) 10F-C-12
Iavchieql (GCarrier) 8F-C-12
Lopec (GCarrier) 10G-F-13 (Note: book shows 4 seats, but erratta shows 14)
Kankurur (GCarrier) 10G
and from the PH...
Combat armor (armored vaccsuit) 8-B-0
Combat armor (armored vaccsuit) 10-C-0
Combat armor (armored vaccsuit) 18-E-0
Battle Dress (Powered armored vaccsuit) 10-D-0
Battle Dress (Powered armored vaccsuit) 18-E-0

note that most civilian vehicles are under AV 8...spaceworthy hulls need to be at least AV 10... Long-term spaceworthy hulls need to be at least AV 30.
all passenger numbers are seats in excess of crew required.

these numbers, by the way, are compatiple with striker I AV's directly.

it looks like APC's are more than AV 20, and GCarriers are under AV 30... and mostly lightly armored.

 

[Glen Allen Mcinnes]

My understanding is that a G-Carrier is a grav veichile with light to medium armor (as far as APC's go)and some come with a support weapons mount and/or firing ports. where the Grav APC is a purerly militry anmial (though a close relitve) with medium to heavy (ocasonaly MBT) grade armor ect. also the G-Carrier can come with a number of "civilion" and luxury fittings.

also you (provided you can ponny up the cash) just walk in to the local Air/Raft dealership and provided it dose not contrven local law just buy a G-Carrier where to buy a Grav APC you have to go through geting a end-users cirtificate or spechial permit then place an order with a Deffence Contracter and wait yout turn. so in short a G-Carrier is a well armored grav truck or mini-bus that can be presed in to service as a (poor mans) APC or IVF only with commpher seets and a better stero.

 

[Spiderfish]

And its stereos that win battles or is that races.

Eitherway thats the ill founded barryboy wisdom.

I've always seen the G Carrier as a sort of cheap alternative. Like a policeman's Grav APC in a way. Not as tough and it doesent carry as much firepower but its still handy in a pinch.

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by Spiderfish:
I've always seen the G Carrier as a sort of cheap alternative. Like a policeman's Grav APC in a way. Not as tough and it doesent carry as much firepower but its still handy in a pinch.

Like an armoured Land Rover for police/paramilitary work (g-carrier) versus an IFV (gravAPC), for example?

 

[Glen Allen Mcinnes]

Just going through some old MT books (both GDW & DGP) and found that the "basic" TL15 G-Carrier had a Armor of 10G and a auto fire fuison gun and is discribed as a Militry or Quasi-Militry grav veichle their is an other example of a TL12 purely civilon people or cargo carier with a with an armor of 4E (about the same as a normal concumer car) an other produced at TL13 has an armor of 20G and mounting a starship? beam laser used by varg corsairs and a forth (TL14 example) is discribed as a SAR craft with a armor of 15G compear this to the Astrin Grav-APC with a armor of 40G

BTW my prior point is that the G-Carrier is for brord application and apeail with things that cilvilions would expect but the militry would find nice or could't give a rat's about or find useless, where as the grav APC is pourpouse built for a militry applaction

 

[coldwar]

A G-Carrier is an APC.
Any thing that is desgined to move troops while in Combat is an APC, Even when its got a deadly Anti-tank Cannon Turret.
APC's a designed to move troops to support tanks fast as a APC can keep up while a running man cannot. The second Design Peramiter For an APC is that can it act as Fire support or take on a tank. Many go for Fire Support as it allows more speed as many APC's are behind the Main tanks When battles start. When the tank force destorys the Enemy tank elements they may need to take out Troops but tanks are not good at that as any one can sneak up and start placeing penetration Charges without the Tank Crew even Konmwing at all. Thats why they Call upon a Group of APC's which at the Intiation Of the Contact will Allready Speed up Either flanking to Capture Fleeing Tank Crews or to arrive close to the Fight Deploy Troops and the Move in.

If you Went For The Second Option(Anti-tank Weapons Abroad) Then TANKS AND THE APC'S will move all together but if one of the APC's get hit by a Cannon Shell they shall react as the same as to a Tank which if the shell is a Sabot then it is destoryed, Increasing the Death rate from the APC. That is why Many APC's act As a Support role, and may carry a light Cannon Like the Warriow with it's 20mm Radon Cannon, Tankish Armour. Neat Machine Gun Excellent speed. But only Carring 6 Passengerts. Eventhought it is more Tank it is still Classed as APC.

And As for the Bradley, Machine guns and Missile Launcher 20mm Cannon excellent speed is an APC.
But if I was you do not even step foot in one as they have the worse armour as Proven on its first Show agianst The US's own Browning Heavy Machine Gun, Bullets eventually penetrated it after a few seconds of Firing.(imagine A SABOT hitting it, The Shell will just go Right thought and come out the other side without exploding.)

 

[aramis]

Originally posted by Deathwisher:
A G-Carrier is an APC.
Any thing that is desgined to move troops while in Combat is an APC,

So the Hummer and the WW II GP are APC's? P'shaw. Tis to laugh.

 

[Spiderfish]

Anything ARMOURED which transports tropps is an Armoured Personel Carrier. Not anything otherwise a motorcycle could be an APC or even a pair of boots.

The Warrior is generally classed as an MICV.

 

[aramis]

There are different kinds of armored combat transport.

Battle taxi, IFV, Tank with passengers, etc

Exactly which role the GCarrier fits is, well, the point of the discussion.

And GCarriers seem to be a separate category... as they lack "front line armor" by comparison to the "APC" labeled craft, and tend to be multi-role, somewhat akin to a huey or blackhawk... combat capable, but NOT designed for intense fire survival. Good against most small arms, but not aainst main-line military infantry support weapons.

BTW, the GCarrier is much akin to a Hummer: light armor, but only for shrapnel and small arms... fast, and capable of carrying a serious anti-tank weapon (Hummer can carry TOW, RFAGL's, MG's.).