Fuel Purification Plant processing time

[snrdg082102]

Hello all,

I trying to make sure I'm on the right track about calculating the time needed for a fuel purification plant to refine fuel.

A TL 11 purification plant is being used to refine fuel for a ship with 100 tons of tankage.

Reading through HG2 page 27 and looking at the table on page 32 I think that the 1,000 tons of processed fuel is completed in 1 hour.

If my math is on the right track a TL 11 HG2 fuel purification plant of 35 tons , rounding to hundredth digit, converts 16.67 tons per minute of unrefined gas into refined fuel.

At TL 11 the smallest size purification plant is 7 tons, per the one-fifth rule HG 2 page 27.

Does the 7 ton plant process fuel at 16.67 tons per minute or is the one-fifth rule applied allowing 3.3340 tons of gas being processed per minute?

IIRC one of the CT books mentions that water can be used to make refined fuel, I've looked in HG 2 without finding anything on processing water.

Does anyone know where I can dig up something more solid than my guess or what I found in HG1 page 32?

From HG1 page 32:

Such plants can process 1 ton of gas in a minute (or one ton of water in 10 minutes), and masses 50 tons, Cost: Cr200,000.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Carlobrand]

Hello all,

I trying to make sure I'm on the right track about calculating the time needed for a fuel purification plant to refine fuel.

A TL 11 purification plant is being used to refine fuel for a ship with 100 tons of tankage.

Reading through HG2 page 27 and looking at the table on page 32 I think that the 1,000 tons of processed fuel is completed in 1 hour.

If my math is on the right track a TL 11 HG2 fuel purification plant of 35 tons , rounding to hundredth digit, converts 16.67 tons per minute of unrefined gas into refined fuel.

At TL 11 the smallest size purification plant is 7 tons, per the one-fifth rule HG 2 page 27.

Does the 7 ton plant process fuel at 16.67 tons per minute or is the one-fifth rule applied allowing 3.3340 tons of gas being processed per minute?

IIRC one of the CT books mentions that water can be used to make refined fuel, I've looked in HG 2 without finding anything on processing water.

Does anyone know where I can dig up something more solid than my guess or what I found in HG1 page 32? ...

I know nothing in HG2 that states a time for processing fuel. I'm not sure where you're getting 1/5 the time from. The purification plant size is based on fuel volume: a 1/5 size plant (minimum size) is intended for 1/5 the fuel volume served by the normal size plant, or 1/5 of 1000 dTons: 200 dTons. It would process that smaller quantity of fuel in the same time it would take a full size plant to process a full 1000 dTons of fuel. It is probably fair to say that a plant designed to process 200 dTons of fuel (the smallest size plant) would likely process 100 dTons in half the time, but what "the time" is, is still the question.

Trillion Credit Squadron also deals with refueling but also does not discuss a time for purification - though it is a safe bet that it should be able to keep pace with combat refueling, since nothing stops the newly refueled ship from jumping out immediately after refueling and there's no increased risk in doing so. A ship can fully refuel by skimming in 7 turns (140 minutes), so one presumes that the plant can get that fuel purified in that time, likely as it's coming in.

However, MegaTraveller Referee's Manual offers purification plants of approximately the same size, cost and performance as HG2 plants, and it declares that it takes them 6 hours to process a load. It also offers the opportunity to save space and cost by taking half the usual volume of purification plant, taking 12 hours to process the load.

 

[aramis]

Carlo - Refuelling from a GG takes 8 hours, plus travel time. (TTB, p. 51)
Many infer that this means the FPP does it's work in that time frame.

MegaTraveller makes the rate into a 6 hour processing time, assuming full processing rate.

 

[Vladika]

One pass through the gas giant's atmosphere is sufficient to fill all tanks and takes 7 turns. Fuel may be transferred between ships in two turns. TCS - 39

Given the TCS quote above, wouldn't it be safe to say the for MILITARY ships, 7 combat turns, 140 minutes, is correct?

For Civilian ships, I see no problems going with TTB.

Of course ALL of this assumes a CT universe, leaving aside and changes subsequent versions might have altered. I tried looking in T5 for the definitive answer, but, thus far, haven't found it.

BTW T5 seems to have done away with ANY possibility of refueling from anything in the outer system, due to gravity drive functioning. The Ort cloud and Comets are out and even ice asteroids in the inner system are problematic. (This deserves it's own thread.)

Edit: My first post had the units incorrect (140 hours) Now corrected to the proper 140 minutes. Thankfully, aramis caught the error.

 

[Carlobrand]

Carlo - Refuelling from a GG takes 8 hours, plus travel time. (TTB, p. 51)
Many infer that this means the FPP does it's work in that time frame.

MegaTraveller makes the rate into a 6 hour processing time, assuming full processing rate.

The gentleman asked for options, and Trillion Credit Squadron is indeed one option.

Book-2/TTB presents ships which do not use purification plants - they're getting a penalty DM when they use that unrefined fuel for jump. Ergo, that 8 hours does not include purification time unless we are now saying the venerable Free Trader has a purification plant hidden somewhere. Nor is Book-2/TTB the final CT word. Expedition to Zhodane has Pebble, the fuel shuttle, taking an hour to fill its own tanks by scooping. Safari Ship has the safari ship taking 3 days to refuel at a gas giant; perhaps they linger and use their shuttle for refueling rather than making everyone endure a rough ride.

The TCS rules strongly imply a circumstance in which ships are free to jump without hindrance as soon as they have the fuel. Perhaps I should have tossed in the usual caveats about it being a wargame and so forth, but I'm pretty sure Snrd knows that, and Azhanti High Lightning follows the TCS model, using a 2G shuttle and again with no implication of a delay between refueling and jump. If it were confined to TCS, I might segregate and decanonize it, but it seems to have been intended to be part of canon at least for warships.

The first hint of a need to wait around while the fuel is processed occurs in MegaTrav, as far as I know, and it is by no means the only example of MegaTrav creating new canon.

 

[aramis]

Given the TCS quote above, wouldn't it be safe to say the for MILITARY ships, 7 combat turns, 140 hours, is correct?
​

Nope. 140 minutes.

HG, p. 38:

SCALE
High Guard uses the following scales in this space combat system:
1. Distance is represented by two indeterminate ranges which are labeled short
and long.
2. Time is represented by turns equal to twenty minutes each.
3. Units represented are individual ships, small craft, and fighters.​

You appear to have conflated mayday (with 2 hour turns) and HG (with 1/3 hour turns).​

 

[Vladika]

Nope. 140 minutes.

HG, p. 38:

SCALE
High Guard uses the following scales in this space combat system:
1. Distance is represented by two indeterminate ranges which are labeled short
and long.
2. Time is represented by turns equal to twenty minutes each.
3. Units represented are individual ships, small craft, and fighters.​

You appear to have conflated mayday (with 2 hour turns) and HG (with 1/3 hour turns).

You quite right. I seriously miss stated there. So as not to confuse others, I'm going to edit my original post. Thanks for catching it.

 

[snrdg082102]

Morning Carlobrand, aramis, and Vladika,

Thank all three of you for the replies and hopefully my combined post is not too confusing.

I know nothing in HG2 that states a time for processing fuel. I'm not sure where you're getting 1/5 the time from. The purification plant size is based on fuel volume: a 1/5 size plant (minimum size) is intended for 1/5 the fuel volume served by the normal size plant, or 1/5 of 1000 dTons: 200 dTons. It would process that smaller quantity of fuel in the same time it would take a full size plant to process a full 1000 dTons of fuel. It is probably fair to say that a plant designed to process 200 dTons of fuel (the smallest size plant) would likely process 100 dTons in half the time, but what "the time" is, is still the question.

You answered my question that the one-fifth applied to the purification plant's tonnage and cost does not alter the time needed to process fuel.

Trillion Credit Squadron also deals with refueling but also does not discuss a time for purification - though it is a safe bet that it should be able to keep pace with combat refueling, since nothing stops the newly refueled ship from jumping out immediately after refueling and there's no increased risk in doing so. A ship can fully refuel by skimming in 7 turns (140 minutes), so one presumes that the plant can get that fuel purified in that time, likely as it's coming in.

However, MegaTraveller Referee's Manual offers purification plants of approximately the same size, cost and performance as HG2 plants, and it declares that it takes them 6 hours to process a load. It also offers the opportunity to save space and cost by taking half the usual volume of purification plant, taking 12 hours to process the load.

Looking at the TCS rules on CT Adventure 5 page 39 the 140 minutes (7 turns) is for the ship doing the skimming, transferring the to another ship with the same fuel tankage adds 40 minutes (2 turns) to the process. Bring the minimum refueling time up to 180 minutes (9 turns) or 3 hours. That doesn't include the transient time between the gas giant or the time needed to match orbits with any ships that need to be refueled.

Yes, MT Referee's Manual page 83 states that a full size purification plant takes 6 hours to process a full fuel load. However, the fuel scoops per the MT Referee's Manual, at least to me, adds to the time needed to refuel.

Per MT Referee's manual page 83 fuel scoops gathers 20% of a ship's hull tonnage in 1 hour of gas giants atmosphere. In one hour a 400 ton ship with a 100 ton fuel capacity and has scoops gathers 80 tons of fuel per hour.

To suck-up enough unrefined gas to fill the 100 tons of fuel tankage takes 1 hour and 15 minutes add the 6 hours processing time the whole process takes approximately 7 hours and 15 minutes.

One MT purification plant sized to fill 100 tons of fuel tankage takes 6 hours to refine a full load of fuel. Cutting the plant's size in half, providing the size reduction doesn't fall below the minimum volume, doubles the time.

TNE is similar to MT, with the addition of allowing the surface area of the fuel scoops to increase the amount of fuel gathered by the scoops.

My reply to

Carlo - Refuelling from a GG takes 8 hours, plus travel time. (TTB, p. 51)
Many infer that this means the FPP does it's work in that time frame.

MegaTraveller makes the rate into a 6 hour processing time, assuming full processing rate.

I just remembered that back in February of this year I asked about purifying fuel for drop, collapsible, and demountable tanks, which I've just reviewed. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find all the sources and page numbers for some of my work, however what I have been able to pull together today looks like this.

Gas Giant refueling: TCS = 2, MT = 6, TTB = 8, and TNE = 10 hours.
Ocean Refueling: TNE = 2 hours to fill tanks with unrefined water
Ice cap refueling: source ? about 12 hours.

The average appears to be 8 hours, which I guess would be a good average.

For:

Given the TCS quote above, wouldn't it be safe to say the for MILITARY ships, 7 combat turns, 140 hours, is correct?

For Civilian ships, I see no problems going with TTB.

Of course ALL of this assumes a CT universe, leaving aside and changes subsequent versions might have altered. I tried looking in T5 of the definitive answer, but, thus far, haven't found it.

BTW T5 seems to have done away with ANY possibility of refueling from anything in the outer system, due to gravity drive functioning. The Ort cloud and Comets are out and even ice asteroids in the inner system are problematic. (This deserves it's own thread.)​

And a second go round for

The gentleman asked for options, and Trillion Credit Squadron is indeed one option.

This retired enlisted submarine sailor has been deemed a gentleman, how am I going to explain this to my peers.

Book-2/TTB presents ships which do not use purification plants - they're getting a penalty DM when they use that unrefined fuel for jump. Ergo, that 8 hours does not include purification time unless we are now saying the venerable Free Trader has a purification plant hidden somewhere. Nor is Book-2/TTB the final CT word. Expedition to Zhodane has Pebble, the fuel shuttle, taking an hour to fill its own tanks by scooping. Safari Ship has the safari ship taking 3 days to refuel at a gas giant; perhaps they linger and use their shuttle for refueling rather than making everyone endure a rough ride.

CT Book 2 Starships indicates that refined fuel is available at starports which suggests the use of fuel purification plants. However, a ship, unstreamlined or streamlined, can also purchase unrefined fuel from a starport. Streamlined hulls come equipped with fuel scoops to skim a gas giant or suck up water for unrefined fuel.

I am fairly sure that a ship has to between 10D and 100D away from everything before making a jump.

Not having TTB I don't have enough information the conclude if the quoted refuel time of 8 hours is with or without the plants.

The TCS rules strongly imply a circumstance in which ships are free to jump without hindrance as soon as they have the fuel. Perhaps I should have tossed in the usual caveats about it being a wargame and so forth, but I'm pretty sure Snrd knows that, and Azhanti High Lightning follows the TCS model, using a 2G shuttle and again with no implication of a delay between refueling and jump. If it were confined to TCS, I might segregate and decanonize it, but it seems to have been intended to be part of canon at least for warships.

TCS indicates that in order to make a jump the ship has to be in the outer system. Of course I haven't figured out how long it would take to get there either.

The first hint of a need to wait around while the fuel is processed occurs in MegaTrav, as far as I know, and it is by no means the only example of MegaTrav creating new canon.

CT Book 5 HG 1979 introduces fuel scoops and purification plants. In the details for purification plants the time needed to purify 1 ton of gas is 1 minute and 1 ton of water in 10 minutes. To me Book 5 HG2 1980 does imply some time is needed for a plant to process 1,000 tons of fuel. The problem is that there is nothing to indicate how much time is needed.

Another item that HG2 dropped was magazines for missiles. Of course when HG2 dumped the HG1 rules on how to determine the weapons USP factors the method for determining the magazines volume was cut as well. MT, in my opinion, brought the missile magazine back into the game.

Of course I may have missed the re-introduction of the missile magazine into CT, so I could be out to lunch.

I hate to say this but each new item added to CT new canon got added. MT, TNE, T4, and T5 are separate pieces of the Traveller line which means at least to me that new canon is going to be generated.


Hopefully, I haven't gotten anything new in while I was working on this.

Once again thank you all for the input.​

 

[snrdg082102]

Nuts, while I was typing away aramis and Vladika made new posts. I think I'll hit the shower and take my mother out for a bit.

Thanks for the help and discussion to all of you.

 

[Vladika]

This retired enlisted submarine sailor has been deemed a gentleman, how am I going to explain this to my peers.

As the old saw went, It took an act of congress to make ME a gentleman!

CT Book 5 HG 1979 introduces fuel scoops and purification plants. In the details for purification plants the time needed to purify 1 ton of gas is 1 minute and 1 ton of water in 10 minutes. To me Book 5 HG2 1980 does imply some time is needed for a plant to process 1,000 tons of fuel. The problem is that there is nothing to indicate how much time is needed.

Why not just stick with HG1 as it does give times?

As an aside for HG1 vs HG2, several things were both adopted to HHG2 as well as "forgotten" items added (Medic/crew rules come to mind.)

As for 10dt bays, I see NO real difference in the 10dt bays and the grouping of ten 1dt turrets into a single battery. Tonnage is the same, as are manning factors. Difference is in the addition of EPs to HG2, but, that changes nothing in the comparison.

As for magazines...Popular Mechanics? Seriously though, there is a dire need for GOOD rules for magazines and fleet/ship resupply.

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello again Vladika,

As the old saw went, It took an act of congress to make ME a gentleman!

I was afraid to approach Congress at the time because a certain President had resigned after signing my certificate when I became an Eagle Scout with the BSA. Besides I wanted my Dad, an USAF Master Sergeant, to talk to me even though I was a squid/

Why not just stick with HG1 as it does give times?

Doing the math, hopefully correctly, HG2 fuel purification plants appear to refine the raw gas a bit faster.

Quick review and setting up my math. HG2 page 36 states that the standard purification plant, regardless of TL or tons, is set-up to process 1,000 tons of fuel.

Per TCS the refueling process takes 140 minutes, without transferring fuel to another hull, which based on HG2 criteria of 1,000 tons, rounding to the nearest hundredth, appears to refine 1,000 / 140 = 7.14 tons of gas per minute.

A six hour processing time for 1,000 tons of fuel, again round to the nearest hundredth, allows a purification plant to process gas at 2.78 tons per minute.

When the time frame is 8 hours the processing time drops to 2.08, rounded to the nearest hundredth, 2.08 tons of gas per minute.

A ten hour processing time appears to be able to process 1,000 tons / (10 x 60) = 1,000 /600 = 1.67 tons of fuel per minute.

At 1 ton per minute as indicated in HG1 my calculations indicate that refining of 1,000 tons would take 16.67 hours

As an aside for HG1 vs HG2, several things were both adopted to HHG2 as well as "forgotten" items added (Medic/crew rules come to mind.)

All my copies of HG2 refer to the crew requirements in Book 2 Starships for hulls <= 1,000 tons. The Consolidated CT Errata re-introduces the most of the Medical Section rule from HG1.

HG1 page 31:
Medical Section. In addition to the medic and nurse contained in the command section, the ship should have a sick bay staffed with one medical person (at least medic-1) for each 240 crew persons aboard. The medical section should have 1 officer per 3 individuals, and one petty officer per three individuals. Personnel are drawn from the medical branch.

HG2 dropped the nurse as part of the command section requirement.

As for 10dt bays, I see NO real difference in the 10dt bays and the grouping of ten 1dt turrets into a single battery. Tonnage is the same, as are manning factors. Difference is in the addition of EPs to HG2, but, that changes nothing in the comparison.

HG2 page 29 has states that weapons are grouped into batteries and hulls with 10 or more turrets must be grouped with the maximum being 10 turrets in one battery. One battery of 10 turrets can be operated by one gunner instead of the 10 gunners required by Book 2 Starships.

I've been digging through HG1 without finding anything about batteries however on page 31 Gunnery Section "...turret weapons should have at least one.". The reference a bit vague but I'm more inclined to go with one per turret gunner requirement found in Book 2 Starships.

HG1 bays require 2 personnel and depending how the turret gunner rule is interpreted is between 1 and 10. If the turrets require more than two gunners a 10-ton bay is a better option.

However the bean counters in BuShips see a difference 10 triple mount missile turrets cost MCr22.5 while a 10-ton missile bay costs MCr8.

In other words I agree 10 turrets = 1 bay in tons needed on the hull. The crew required for each type of weapon in HG1 is unclear and depends on which Crew rule is used Book 2 Starships or HG2.

Cost a bay is cheaper than 10 triple mount turrets and a little more expensive that double mount turrets.

As for magazines...Popular Mechanics? Seriously though, there is a dire need for GOOD rules for magazines and fleet/ship resupply.

Here I agree with you, but in the interim I use MT rules.

Hopefully, I'll be able to return the help on something in the future for all the help I've gotten. Thanks all

 

[pendragonman]

Doing the math, hopefully correctly, HG2 fuel purification plants appear to refine the raw gas a bit faster.

Quick review and setting up my math. HG2 page 36 states that the standard purification plant, regardless of TL or tons, is set-up to process 1,000 tons of fuel.

Per TCS the refueling process takes 140 minutes, without transferring fuel to another hull, which based on HG2 criteria of 1,000 tons, rounding to the nearest hundredth, appears to refine 1,000 / 140 = 7.14 tons of gas per minute.

A six hour processing time for 1,000 tons of fuel, again round to the nearest hundredth, allows a purification plant to process gas at 2.78 tons per minute.

When the time frame is 8 hours the processing time drops to 2.08, rounded to the nearest hundredth, 2.08 tons of gas per minute.

A ten hour processing time appears to be able to process 1,000 tons / (10 x 60) = 1,000 /600 = 1.67 tons of fuel per minute.

At 1 ton per minute as indicated in HG1 my calculations indicate that refining of 1,000 tons would take 16.67 hours

Refueling is not refining. You can fill your tanks with unrefined fuel just as fast as refilling them with refined fuel from a separate source. You then refine the fuel in your tanks.

TCS says nothing about refining time, basically because that is below the level of detail of this abstract mass combat system.

HG2 gives no processing time for the same reason.

Extending the refuel time to the processing time is not correct math, unless that is how it works in YTU. As a matter of CT canon law you are not correct.

 

[snrdg082102]

Evening pendragonman,

Refueling is not refining. You can fill your tanks with unrefined fuel just as fast as refilling them with refined fuel from a separate source. You then refine the fuel in your tanks.

The individuals I gamed with for about six years and from several discussions on various forums over the past ten years the census is that skimming for gas to convert into refined fuel is considered the process of refueling.

Of course the time needed to complete the entire process is a little bit fuzzy.

TCS says nothing about refining time, basically because that is below the level of detail of this abstract mass combat system.

If the time needed to refuel is below the level of the abstract system so is the need for refueling and then moving to the out system to make a jump.
Why not just go with the HG2 ranges of short or long.

HG2 gives no processing time for the same reason.

Extending the refuel time to the processing time is not correct math, unless that is how it works in YTU. As a matter of CT canon law you are not correct.

Please provide the sources and pages the states in CT Canon Law I am not correct?

I have provided references with my material whenever possible.

I was trying to figure out HG1 which does provide processing times before HG2 and I was not very happy that this item along with the medical section for the crew, and missile magazines. Of course I was happy that I didn't have to figure out the weapon rating codes.

Thank you for the input and do you have any suggestions other than to ignore the time needed to process unrefined gas into refined fuel.

 

[pendragonman]

I gave you my sources. If it is not explicitly written in canon then it is not canon. Just because it doesn't say something doesn't mean what you want to do is canonical. There is no listed timetable for refining fuel at the fleet level (i.e. in TCS or HG2).

HG1 was superseded by HG2. If you are going to use HG1, then ignore HG2 in its entirety. If you are going to mix rule books with those that replaced them then why are you asking opinion? You at that point are using your own version of the rules already, so declare the refining timescale what you wish.

TCS pretty much does ignore refueling times altogether. Provide a fuel source to your fleet and they are refueled. The time of orders is longer than the time to refuel. If your fleet is relying on GG refueling then make sure the designs have refining capability. Done.

If you are not playing a strategic fleet combat type game, but are playing the game as an RPG use the book 2 refueling times, especially if they are longer. Adds a bit of drama to refueling if there is a chance of getting caught with fuel lines laying about.

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello pendragonman,

I gave you my sources. If it is not explicitly written in canon then it is not canon. Just because it doesn't say something doesn't mean what you want to do is canonical. There is no listed timetable for refining fuel at the fleet level (i.e. in TCS or HG2).

HG1 was superseded by HG2. If you are going to use HG1, then ignore HG2 in its entirety. If you are going to mix rule books with those that replaced them then why are you asking opinion? You at that point are using your own version of the rules already, so declare the refining timescale what you wish.

TCS pretty much does ignore refueling times altogether. Provide a fuel source to your fleet and they are refueled. The time of orders is longer than the time to refuel. If your fleet is relying on GG refueling then make sure the designs have refining capability. Done.

If you are not playing a strategic fleet combat type game, but are playing the game as an RPG use the book 2 refueling times, especially if they are longer. Adds a bit of drama to refueling if there is a chance of getting caught with fuel lines laying about.

I have the eight books the FFE produced in 2000 for Classical Traveller. Checking through them I have yet to find any statement Traveller material has to be explicitly written to be cannon.

I ask again that you provide at least one, more if possible, explicit source with page numbers supporting the claim that Traveller rules must be explicitly written to be cannon. Hopefully, I have access to the source so that I can confirm the information and be proven to be in error.

At this point I would like to suggest we take the discussion of canon or not canon off the forum. Please contact me at snrdg010912@gmail.com

Respectfully,

 

[pendragonman]

Hello pendragonman,





I have the eight books the FFE produced in 2000 for Classical Traveller. Checking through them I have yet to find any statement Traveller material has to be explicitly written to be cannon.

I ask again that you provide at least one, more if possible, explicit source with page numbers supporting the claim that Traveller rules must be explicitly written to be cannon. Hopefully, I have access to the source so that I can confirm the information and be proven to be in error.

At this point I would like to suggest we take the discussion of canon or not canon off the forum. Please contact me at snrdg010912@gmail.com

Respectfully,

You are either being deliberately obtuse or are completely ignorant of what canon means.

See this wiki article for what canon means:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction)

In short, if it is in the book (not implied, actually written) it is canon. If it is not written, then it is not canon. Therefore there will be no statement that says "this is canon". By writing the words in the book they become established canon without needing to say "this is canon, that is not".

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello pendragonman,

You are either being deliberately obtuse or are completely ignorant of what canon means.

See this wiki article for what canon means:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_%28fiction%29

In short, if it is in the book (not implied, actually written) it is canon. If it is not written, then it is not canon. Therefore there will be no statement that says "this is canon". By writing the words in the book they become established canon without needing to say "this is canon, that is not".

Apparently you have decided to ignore my request to take this disagreement off the forum. Which is an indication to me that you are trying to prove some point known only to yourself.

I do not doubt that the author or authors of the Wikipedia article have defined the term "canon", however the final authority that decides what is canon or not canon is Marc Miller, those who created or are creating Traveller products, and the majority of people who play Traveller in all of the products available.

Since you are unwilling to discuss this off the forum with me I am asking you to stop posting the off topic discussion of what is or is not canon. If you have something to say about the topic that is helpful then please post.

 

[rancke]

In short, if it is in the book (not implied, actually written) it is canon.

It is canon if it is in the book AND accepted as canon. Otherwise it is apocrypha.


Hans

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello all,

First my apologies for taking so long before realizing that instead of fitting the fuel purification processing time into the refueling time I was adding the time needed to convert raw gas into refined fuel. Thank you pendragonman, even if it took awhile to get through my thick skull, for getting me on, I hope, stating what I am mean.

My definition of refueling having a full load of refined fuel to run the power plant, jump drive and/or maneuver drive with the least amount of DMs to increase the chance of a malfunction of the J-Drive, M-drive, and/or Power plant.

Adventure 5 TCS does provide HG2 with additions and clarification to that books rules, however TCS does not say anywhere that HG2 or Book 2 Starships rules are suspended. The rules on the use of unrefined fuel are explicitly written stating that the power plant, jump drive, or/and M-drive have an increased chance of malfunctioning. Since TCS doesn't implement the rules my feeling is that the 2 hours and 20 minutes or 140 minutes to fill the tanks includes operating the fuel purification plants.

A properly functioning fuel purification plant process 1,000 tons of fuel per HG2. Using the 140 minutes from Adventure 5 TCS and giving a little leeway, okay making my math easier, I'm thinking that the properly sized plant takes 100 minutes to process the raw gas to refined fuel, which is 10 tons of raw fuel per minute.

Of course using 6, 8, or 10 hours as the time needed alters the tons of fuel processed.

Does the above appear to be a better fit, even though the idea is not explicitly written into the rules?

Thank you again pendragonman for, eventually, getting me, hopefully, correctly state my thoughts on how to combine fuel purification plants into the time needed to refuel using raw materials and converting the material into a refined product.

Another thank you to all who have contributed to this topic.

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello rancke, AKA Hans,

It is canon if it is in the book AND accepted as canon. Otherwise it is apocrypha.


Hans

Must better and shorter than what I added to my Post identified as 17 below.