FTL Drives other than Jump Drive

[PathfinderAP]

Yes the existence of Ant-matter can be demonstrated, but not a way to contain it. (Some theories exist, but AFAIK none of them work.) So I will grant Anti-Matter as Unobtainium. Negative matter is a different concept, and pure science fiction.

The concept of Wormholes may have some theoretical physics theories outside of science fiction there is nothing I have seen that says these theories are any more accurate than the concept of Hyper space, Warp Space, Fold Space, Jump Drives or any other FTL drive. If you have such a source please link it. (And actually some of the physics for Hyper space have been discussed and some of the math worked out.)

Further I have definitely seen nothing that suggests stable wormholes or even a concept, that if they exist, they can be traveled, predicted, or lead to useful destination, or that they can be prevalent enough to actually allow practical space travel.

So this is just as much handwavium as any other FTL method.

You dismiss, because you don't know?,
thats not very broad minded minded of you,

So at theory has no value to you?

Well some really brainy type people have given this alot of thought all the same, like Stephen Hawking's for one....

 

[BetterThanLife]

You dismiss, because you don't know?,
thats not very broad minded minded of you,

So at theory has no value to you?

Well some really brainy type people have given this alot of thought all the same, like Stephen Hawking's for one....

I dismiss it as the same handwavium as any other FTL drive without something to back it up. For one thing it goes against key tenants of Relativity.

If there is credible theory, yes it has value. Fiction no. If you have a credible source on Wormholes that takes them out of the realm of fiction and into real scientific theory, with a basis in reality, unlike Global Warming, show it.

 

[PathfinderAP]

I dismiss it as the same handwavium as any other FTL drive without something to back it up. For one thing it goes against key tenants of Relativity.

If there is credible theory, yes it has value. Fiction no. If you have a credible source on Wormholes that takes them out of the realm of fiction and into real scientific theory, with a basis in reality, unlike Global Warming, show it.

So, you have looked, and found nothing?

 

[BetterThanLife]

So, you have looked, and found nothing?

You claim it is a Scientific theory. As my Physics Professor said, "show your work."

 

[PathfinderAP]

You claim it is a Scientific theory. As my Physics Professor said, "show your work."

Its not my work, but you would need to be a fool to say this isn't Scientific theory

 

[BetterThanLife]

Its not my work, but you would need to be a fool to say this isn't Scientific theory

I don't see anything to support the concept of Wormholes except some theory that would require Negative Energy. Since Negative energy requires something with Negative Mass (e=mc^2)and nobody has ever come up with either naturally occuring Negative Energy, or a way to produce Negative Energy or an object with Negative mass to produce Negative energy, even in theory, the entire operation is a wasted exercise and clearly not credible scientific theory. (Anti-Matter has a positive Mass, but a reversed charge therefore is not related.)

And we haven't gotten to the point where a Wormhole could actually open a portal to someplace you wish to go, be stable, be predictable, or even found evidence of a naturally Occurring Wormhole or how to traverse a wormhole. So it is in the realm of Science Fiction and not Credible Scientific Theory.

 

[Peter Schutze]

my understanding is that wormholes etc relied mainly on string theory rather than negative energy etc

 

[BetterThanLife]

my understanding is that wormholes etc relied mainly on string theory rather than negative energy etc

NASA says it would require a great source of Negative Energy to open such a hole in Space-Time. e=mc^2 means to get Negative Energy you need Negative Mass. BTW while you can easily test Newton's Gravitational theory, and a great deal of Einstein's laws there is no evidence that Wormholes can or do actually exist.

 

[PathfinderAP]

NASA says it would require a great source of Negative Energy to open such a hole in Space-Time. e=mc^2 means to get Negative Energy you need Negative Mass. BTW while you can easily test Newton's Gravitational theory, and a great deal of Einstein's laws there is no evidence that Wormholes can or do actually exist.

What, is that it?

So on your findings (or lack of) and your say so alone, we can now finally say that wormhole can not, and therefore are not possible?

Dude there are smarter people than you who give this greater thought and time, I think I will give them the doubt, and not youz

(Quantam physics being mostly unproven theory, must be on par with the tooth fairy to you)

 

[BetterThanLife]

What, is that it?

So on your findings (or lack of) and your say so alone, we can now finally say that wormhole can not, and therefore are not possible?

Dude there are smarter people than you who give this greater thought and time, I think I will give them the doubt, and not youz

(Quantam physics being mostly unproven theory, must be on par with the tooth fairy to you)

My say so alone? NASA says it isn't possible as does JPL. So I will ask again, what authoritative source should I be looking at? I've listed my sources, and not for the first time, where are yours that say this is more than pure fiction and wishful thinking?

 

[PathfinderAP]

My say so alone? NASA says it isn't possible as does JPL. So I will ask again, what authoritative source should I be looking at? I've listed my sources, and not for the first time, where are yours that say this is more than pure fiction and wishful thinking?

Hmmm Stephen Hawking maybe?, he's really brainy,
I dunno google something

Wait!, Don't bother!, you'll only find Theory

Oh well, guess you are going to have to wait till they find one,

Don't hold your breath, cuz you will die, a purple-ish colour

 

[BetterThanLife]

Hmmm Stephen Hawking maybe?, he's really brainy,
I dunno google something

Wait!, Don't bother!, you'll only find Theory

Oh well, guess you are going to have to wait till they find one,

Don't hold your breath, cuz you will die, a purple-ish colour

I did Google, which is where I came up with NASA and JPL.. They say it isn't possible. basically you are going by rumors and guesswork. So basically you don't have a authorative source with even a theory.

 

[PathfinderAP]

I did Google, which is where I came up with NASA and JPL.. They say it isn't possible. basically you are going by rumors and guesswork. So basically you don't have a authorative source with even a theory.

Wow, assumption much,

I see your flawed logic though, can't see it, so therefore its not there,

That way of thinking has saved many ostriches,

GRRRRRRRRR

 

[BetterThanLife]

Wow, assumption much,

I see your flawed logic though, can't see it, so therefore its not there,

That way of thinking has saved many ostriches,

No I have authoritative sources that say it isn't possible. You claim it is but refuse to point to any source at all. My brother is like that, but of course he is Schizophrenic, and the best way to deal with one of his claims is to just ignore him. Sounds about right for here too.

 

[PathfinderAP]

No I have authoritative sources that say it isn't possible. You claim it is but refuse to point to any source at all. My brother is like that, but of course he is Schizophrenic, and the best way to deal with one of his claims is to just ignore him. Sounds about right for here too.

Well, you know that mental illness can be inherited right?


I'm not going to do your homework for you, you don't what to find it, then believe what you like,

 

[far-trader]

Well, you know that mental illness can be inherited right?

That's treading dangerously close to, if not over, the line into a personal attack Pathfinder. Ditto your own remark that sparked it BTL.

Tone it down gents, or simply walk away from it. Neither of you seems to be making new points the last few posts or budging from your stands.

 

[PathfinderAP]

That's treading dangerously close to, if not over, the line into a personal attack Pathfinder. Ditto your own remark that sparked it BTL.

Tone it down gents, or simply walk away from it. Neither of you seems to be making new points the last few posts or budging from your stands.

Dude he implied I was mentally ill, My statement just threw it back at him,

yet you don't pull him up?

If I'm guility then so is he,

Or are you being bias?, this is not the first time you've tried to jump on something I've posted,

 

[far-trader]

Dude he implied I was mentally ill, My statement just threw it back at him,

tit-for-tat is not a defense, you ignore it or report it, you do not "throw it back at him" - that goes for everyone

yet you don't pull him up?

You missed the bit where I did I guess. Or is it because I only quoted your bit in it. The last post. It's just how I draw the line. I'm not going to go back through I don't know how many pages and try to define where this went off the rails between you two.

Or are you being bias?, this is not the first time you've tried to jump on something I've posted,

Were any of them undeserved? And if you feel singled out it may only be because you were the latest into whatever mess and I was only responding to the end of it before it escalated further. I tend to let things go too long if anything, hoping sense prevails, it rarely does. In that case I share some of the blame. But I also can't be here 24/7 reading every word and disciplining every little spat. Nor do I think it should really be necessary.

But I think I'm fair. If you feel wronged PM me with your side and links. I can admit where I make mistakes. If you think I'm still biased before or after that take it to another moderator via PM. I've said before that option of appeal is open to anyone.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Be cool guys. Let's keep it civil

*edit* just as a note, I've often been asked to cite examples for my postulations, but suffer from "prove-it-intimidation", hence my often inability to cite an example face-a-face. Let's be civil and entertaining for one another's concepts. I'll also add that I've heard mention of "mini-worm-holes" by Brian Greene in his book "The Fabric of the Universe". How said phenomena are manifest, I don't recall, but they're not entirely dismissible. Additionally, this is a science-fiction game forum. Invent the grape-fruit or baseball-bat drive if you want, but let's hear both some real physics and game mechanics before we rip it apart.

 

[PathfinderAP]

tit-for-tat is not a defense, you ignore it or report it, you do not "throw it back at him" - that goes for everyone

Well I didn't feel the need, I'd only complain to a mod if I thought it serious enough, this wasn't, he was just being rude....

You missed the bit where I did I guess.

Seems so, I don't know if you complained about the other posters behaviour prior to this, if so it was before his posts to me, but even if that were the case that would be more reason to pull him up about this instead of me,

Yet even though he was blatantly rude nothing was said or done to him?,
how is this fair?

Or is it because I only quoted your bit in it. The last post. It's just how I draw the line. I'm not going to go back through I don't know how many pages and try to define where this went off the rails between you two.

Again news to me, this is the first time I've seen you complain about this,

Were any of them undeserved?

Yes, all of them, thats why they never went anywhere,

I mean, you are just people correct?
And its fair to understand that some people don't always play fair, mods are not immuned, you are expected to be fair but it doesn't always work that way, so personal interest creeps in and they start abusing what was trusted to them...

It can happen

And if you feel singled out it may only be because you were the latest into whatever mess and I was only responding to the end of it before it escalated further.

Well to be fair, in light of your previous actions how can I not feel "singled out"?

I see you jumping on a disproportionate of my posts without valid cause,
so you give the impression of just looking for an excuse,

Which this example seems to show, fine complain about me throwing his comment back at him, but I would not have had anything to throw back if he had not been rude also, but yet again you only complain to me,

How does this in anyway look fair?

I tend to let things go too long if anything, hoping sense prevails, it rarely does. In that case I share some of the blame. But I also can't be here 24/7 reading every word and disciplining every little spat. Nor do I think it should really be necessary.

It wasn't, I made no complaint, and I had no issue with the rest of the posts, he posted, just his last post when he attempted to be rude,

But I think I'm fair. If you feel wronged PM me with your side and links. I can admit where I make mistakes. If you think I'm still biased before or after that take it to another moderator via PM. I've said before that option of appeal is open to anyone.

How can you really think you are being fair?, if you really don't realize what you are doing here maybe you shouldn't be a mod?

And if you where the kind of person to act on bias as a mod would it make sense for me to come to you?

You say fair but your actions say otherwise, if I was to complain about a mods behaviour it would not be to the mods concerned,