Freight and Cargo Generation

zakrol · Jun 9, 2005

My next MT coding project is something to take the pain out of freight and cargo generation. But again, digging into the sort of detail needed has thrown some questions up. I'd appreciate any input on a couple of things:

- the MT worksheet says that a destination should be chosen and then passengers, freight and cargo should be generated, almost as though you are then locked into that destination. I've always allowed my PCs to see what is available to be shipped to all the systems within jump range and then choose the destination. Obviously cargo (speculative) should only be generated once - but does generating multiple batches of freight a) agree with the rules, b) seem reasonable?

- second was the fact that distance doesn't seem to be a factor. i.e. if you had a jump 6 ship then you would get the same quantities for a jump 6 journey as a jump 1 journey. Does this seem reasonable? Has anybody developed house rules about this? I'm using a per parsec freight transport rate so I reckon I need to reduce available freight for distant systems - I guess if I'd stuck with per jump costs then I wouldn't have a problem.

Any thoughts/suggestions gratefully received...

Chris

zakrol · Jun 9, 2005

My next MT coding project is something to take the pain out of freight and cargo generation. But again, digging into the sort of detail needed has thrown some questions up. I'd appreciate any input on a couple of things:

- the MT worksheet says that a destination should be chosen and then passengers, freight and cargo should be generated, almost as though you are then locked into that destination. I've always allowed my PCs to see what is available to be shipped to all the systems within jump range and then choose the destination. Obviously cargo (speculative) should only be generated once - but does generating multiple batches of freight a) agree with the rules, b) seem reasonable?

- second was the fact that distance doesn't seem to be a factor. i.e. if you had a jump 6 ship then you would get the same quantities for a jump 6 journey as a jump 1 journey. Does this seem reasonable? Has anybody developed house rules about this? I'm using a per parsec freight transport rate so I reckon I need to reduce available freight for distant systems - I guess if I'd stuck with per jump costs then I wouldn't have a problem.

Any thoughts/suggestions gratefully received...

Chris

zakrol · Jun 9, 2005

My next MT coding project is something to take the pain out of freight and cargo generation. But again, digging into the sort of detail needed has thrown some questions up. I'd appreciate any input on a couple of things:

- the MT worksheet says that a destination should be chosen and then passengers, freight and cargo should be generated, almost as though you are then locked into that destination. I've always allowed my PCs to see what is available to be shipped to all the systems within jump range and then choose the destination. Obviously cargo (speculative) should only be generated once - but does generating multiple batches of freight a) agree with the rules, b) seem reasonable?

- second was the fact that distance doesn't seem to be a factor. i.e. if you had a jump 6 ship then you would get the same quantities for a jump 6 journey as a jump 1 journey. Does this seem reasonable? Has anybody developed house rules about this? I'm using a per parsec freight transport rate so I reckon I need to reduce available freight for distant systems - I guess if I'd stuck with per jump costs then I wouldn't have a problem.

Any thoughts/suggestions gratefully received...

Chris

robject · Jun 9, 2005

Then, PCs should be able to see what cargo lots are available 'on the market' for shipment to various destinations to some degree. Your program should work for your group first, and others only peripherally.

I assumed that small shipments were odd-lots, usually acquired by direct, personal interaction, and therefore were deals cemented on-the-spot somehow. That fit the small-enterprise, tramp trader feel, and provided a patron encounter to boot.

But if I were automating the system, I'd use your assumptions instead!

Distance isn't an issue. These are such small/odd lots of cargo, that there is essentially similar sized loads that could head out to any world within N parsecs of the current world.

robject · Jun 9, 2005

Then, PCs should be able to see what cargo lots are available 'on the market' for shipment to various destinations to some degree. Your program should work for your group first, and others only peripherally.

I assumed that small shipments were odd-lots, usually acquired by direct, personal interaction, and therefore were deals cemented on-the-spot somehow. That fit the small-enterprise, tramp trader feel, and provided a patron encounter to boot.

But if I were automating the system, I'd use your assumptions instead!

Distance isn't an issue. These are such small/odd lots of cargo, that there is essentially similar sized loads that could head out to any world within N parsecs of the current world.

robject · Jun 9, 2005

Then, PCs should be able to see what cargo lots are available 'on the market' for shipment to various destinations to some degree. Your program should work for your group first, and others only peripherally.

I assumed that small shipments were odd-lots, usually acquired by direct, personal interaction, and therefore were deals cemented on-the-spot somehow. That fit the small-enterprise, tramp trader feel, and provided a patron encounter to boot.

But if I were automating the system, I'd use your assumptions instead!

Distance isn't an issue. These are such small/odd lots of cargo, that there is essentially similar sized loads that could head out to any world within N parsecs of the current world.

jonathonbarton · Jun 9, 2005

If one felt the need to go strictly with the rules as written, and then work with regression of logic to fit that "pick a world, then passengers, then freight" model, you could reason that the world they happen to select also happens to be the best choice available...and that might be why they selected it...

Personally, I'm with you - let them see what's out there, and select from a list...

Of course, I'm evil...I presume that they (and all of the other traders nearby) are working from some sort of unholy mating of the New York Stock Exchange and the Consolidated Freightways dispatch system...so, the cargos and pax that they select, may *not* be representative of reality once they arrive... There's a chance that some other Trader beat them to the punch, or even that the database info it stale, and the cargo has already left the system...

*grin*

jonathonbarton · Jun 9, 2005

If one felt the need to go strictly with the rules as written, and then work with regression of logic to fit that "pick a world, then passengers, then freight" model, you could reason that the world they happen to select also happens to be the best choice available...and that might be why they selected it...

Personally, I'm with you - let them see what's out there, and select from a list...

Of course, I'm evil...I presume that they (and all of the other traders nearby) are working from some sort of unholy mating of the New York Stock Exchange and the Consolidated Freightways dispatch system...so, the cargos and pax that they select, may *not* be representative of reality once they arrive... There's a chance that some other Trader beat them to the punch, or even that the database info it stale, and the cargo has already left the system...

*grin*

jonathonbarton · Jun 9, 2005

If one felt the need to go strictly with the rules as written, and then work with regression of logic to fit that "pick a world, then passengers, then freight" model, you could reason that the world they happen to select also happens to be the best choice available...and that might be why they selected it...

Personally, I'm with you - let them see what's out there, and select from a list...

Of course, I'm evil...I presume that they (and all of the other traders nearby) are working from some sort of unholy mating of the New York Stock Exchange and the Consolidated Freightways dispatch system...so, the cargos and pax that they select, may *not* be representative of reality once they arrive... There's a chance that some other Trader beat them to the punch, or even that the database info it stale, and the cargo has already left the system...

*grin*

far-trader · Jun 9, 2005

I've always taken that and treated it to mean you may check for each and every destination and then choose where you want to go and at that point you commit to cargo and passengers based on the choice. Change your mind after that and you have to cough up rebates and penalties.

Of course I can also argue that you don't attract ANY shippers or passengers until you have announced a destination, which seems to be the intent of the rules.

So IYTU do it how you like. IMTU it now looks like it'll be mostly the latter but there may be a passenger and/or cargo or two announcing a desire for transport ahead of the PCs announcing their destination. In the OTU by the strict rules it looks like you don't get any takers until you file your intended destination.

far-trader · Jun 9, 2005

I've always taken that and treated it to mean you may check for each and every destination and then choose where you want to go and at that point you commit to cargo and passengers based on the choice. Change your mind after that and you have to cough up rebates and penalties.

Of course I can also argue that you don't attract ANY shippers or passengers until you have announced a destination, which seems to be the intent of the rules.

So IYTU do it how you like. IMTU it now looks like it'll be mostly the latter but there may be a passenger and/or cargo or two announcing a desire for transport ahead of the PCs announcing their destination. In the OTU by the strict rules it looks like you don't get any takers until you file your intended destination.

far-trader · Jun 9, 2005

I've always taken that and treated it to mean you may check for each and every destination and then choose where you want to go and at that point you commit to cargo and passengers based on the choice. Change your mind after that and you have to cough up rebates and penalties.

Of course I can also argue that you don't attract ANY shippers or passengers until you have announced a destination, which seems to be the intent of the rules.

So IYTU do it how you like. IMTU it now looks like it'll be mostly the latter but there may be a passenger and/or cargo or two announcing a desire for transport ahead of the PCs announcing their destination. In the OTU by the strict rules it looks like you don't get any takers until you file your intended destination.

zakrol · Jun 13, 2005

Thanks for the comments, guys. Having got a first draft working, it does seem pretty obvious that the intent was that you pick a destintation and then find out what is available. Even limiting myself to a distance of Jump 4, over half the population of Fulacin want to leave if you generate for all systems (and that's with home brew negative DMs for distance).

One thing that has struck me is the enormous effect that tech level difference has on things. To an extent it makes sense for freight as low tech worlds will import higher tech goods or cheap manufactured goods - but does Rhylanor (tech F) really import virtually nothing? Or is it just that they import nothing on the scale that small traders would haul?

Even weirder is the effect on passengers. There are always lots of passengers wanting to be transported to low tech worlds but hardly any wanting to leave. Is there some sinister slave trade going on?

I suspect that the effects of tech levels need a rethink. I feel some more IMTU homebrew rules coming on....

Chris

zakrol · Jun 13, 2005

Thanks for the comments, guys. Having got a first draft working, it does seem pretty obvious that the intent was that you pick a destintation and then find out what is available. Even limiting myself to a distance of Jump 4, over half the population of Fulacin want to leave if you generate for all systems (and that's with home brew negative DMs for distance).

One thing that has struck me is the enormous effect that tech level difference has on things. To an extent it makes sense for freight as low tech worlds will import higher tech goods or cheap manufactured goods - but does Rhylanor (tech F) really import virtually nothing? Or is it just that they import nothing on the scale that small traders would haul?

Even weirder is the effect on passengers. There are always lots of passengers wanting to be transported to low tech worlds but hardly any wanting to leave. Is there some sinister slave trade going on?

I suspect that the effects of tech levels need a rethink. I feel some more IMTU homebrew rules coming on....

Chris

zakrol · Jun 13, 2005

Thanks for the comments, guys. Having got a first draft working, it does seem pretty obvious that the intent was that you pick a destintation and then find out what is available. Even limiting myself to a distance of Jump 4, over half the population of Fulacin want to leave if you generate for all systems (and that's with home brew negative DMs for distance).

One thing that has struck me is the enormous effect that tech level difference has on things. To an extent it makes sense for freight as low tech worlds will import higher tech goods or cheap manufactured goods - but does Rhylanor (tech F) really import virtually nothing? Or is it just that they import nothing on the scale that small traders would haul?

Even weirder is the effect on passengers. There are always lots of passengers wanting to be transported to low tech worlds but hardly any wanting to leave. Is there some sinister slave trade going on?

I suspect that the effects of tech levels need a rethink. I feel some more IMTU homebrew rules coming on....

Chris

Fritz_Brown · Jun 13, 2005

Originally posted by Zakrol:
Even limiting myself to a distance of Jump 4, over half the population of Fulacin want to leave if you generate for all systems (and that's with home brew negative DMs for distance).

Or, maybe it's the same people, but they are willing to go ANYWHERE, and show up on every destination roll.

Even weirder is the effect on passengers. There are always lots of passengers wanting to be transported to low tech worlds but hardly any wanting to leave. Is there some sinister slave trade going on?