Frankenstein's Pistol

[Commander Truestar]

So, one of my players came up with a real insane request.
What she wanted was a pistol which could "not only" fire slugs and lasers....
...but, could slot a magazine which allows the shooter to "switch files" so they could choose between two separately loaded ammo types.

So, I came up with this Thoughts?

 

[kilemall]

I get situational flexibility but not a lot of effective differences with pistol ammo. What did she have in mind?

 

[Commander Truestar]

I get situational flexibility but not a lot of effective differences with pistol ammo. What did she have in mind?

She primarily wanted the ability to switch from "kill" rounds to ammo you can use to bring someone back alive.
For example, you might load HE rounds to blow through armor and kill a foe.
But, you would use a simple ball round if you wanted to wing your target to bring them down, bandage the target and bring them in for questioning.
Added to that, you can custom make rounds when trying to crack a hideout, like loading one side with HE to crack an armored door, then load the other file with phosphorous tips, to light the compartment behind it aflame and "spark" a panic causing some of the OpFor to flee the space. Perhaps, even surrender.

(Yes, pun intended)

 

[willtron3030]

She primarily wanted the ability to switch from "kill" rounds to ammo you can use to bring someone back alive.

Seems like someone wants to ignore the second law of firearms safety.

Consider a short (sawed-off) shotgun with a few rounds in the magazine tube. When needed, insert a special round into the magazine tube from underneath, and then rack it into the chamber. Slugs, flechettes, breaching rounds, sandbags, flares and pyrotechnics, small grenades (HE, incendiary, etc.), big versions of the tranq and gas rounds from snub pistols...

I don't know about the laser portion (the pic makes it look very svelte compared to the firearm), but if that's all of it until you get back to the power pack, you can mount it on a rail above/below/beside the barrel.

 

[Spinward Flow]

She primarily wanted the ability to switch from "kill" rounds to ammo you can use to bring someone back alive.
For example, you might load HE rounds to blow through armor and kill a foe.
But, you would use a simple ball round if you wanted to wing your target to bring them down, bandage the target and bring them in for questioning.
Added to that, you can custom make rounds when trying to crack a hideout, like loading one side with HE to crack an armored door, then load the other file with phosphorous tips, to light the compartment behind it aflame and "spark" a panic causing some of the OpFor to flee the space. Perhaps, even surrender.

To be honest, at that point you basically want a "payload thrower" (think shotgun or grenades) which is single magazine. Want to change what your ammo is doing downrange? Swap the magazine loaded into the weapon.

 

[Enoki]

Seems like someone wants to ignore the second law of firearms safety.

Consider a short (sawed-off) shotgun with a few rounds in the magazine tube. When needed, insert a special round into the magazine tube from underneath, and then rack it into the chamber. Slugs, flechettes, breaching rounds, sandbags, flares and pyrotechnics, small grenades (HE, incendiary, etc.), big versions of the tranq and gas rounds from snub pistols...

I don't know about the laser portion (the pic makes it look very svelte compared to the firearm), but if that's all of it until you get back to the power pack, you can mount it on a rail above/below/beside the barrel.

It'd be easier to simply have a shotgun with either a magazine or detachable tube you can swap out like a magazine. You carry lethal and non-lethal ones and it works well until in the heat of battle you pick and load the wrong one...

 

[Condottiere]

Sandman Gun

The Sandman gun is the basic weapon of Deep Sleep operatives (AKA Sandmen).

Contents
1 Variants
1.1 Novel Version
1.2 Film Version
1.3 TV Series Version
2 Real World Depictions
3 References
Variants
There appear to be three main variants of the weapon, of which the later two are visibly identical.

Novel Version
The gun is described in the book as having six chambers each holding a different type of charge.

In the comic The Huntsman (Bizarre Adventures #2 Marvel Comics) they were using a six chambered weapon.


You know, snub revolver.

 

[willtron3030]

Spinny and Enoki are both directionally correct. There are also administrative implications to consider.

It really needs to be a gun that puts 'things' downrange, and let the 'things' do more work than simply transferring kinetic energy gained at the expense of lots of noise and recoil. The discussion is nominally about a pistol.

• Portable energy weapons are illegal at LL-2.
• A magazine-fed shotgun might be thought of by LBB standards as a light assault weapon, and illegal at LL-4.
• Personal concealable weapons are illegal at LL-5.
  [side Q: does sophont body habitus affect what's considered "concealable"?]
• But a shotgun is legal to LL-7.

And I'm wondering if a break-open double-barrel pistol-grip shotgun, loaded with two low-velocity less-lethal rounds (gas, tranq, sandbags, taser darts) might even qualify as a "stunner" and get as far as LL-8, but that's very very unlikely.

So. Short shotgun with aspirations of launching small grenades and other party favors; tube-fed, magazine-fed, or even break-open double barrel; and a clip-on laser tube and matching power pack for when you really need to say "FU" at lightspeed. You could add a side-saddle shell holder or a bandolier for when the situation fails to accommodate your plans and you need options to make your message a little more specific and to-the-point.

 

[Commander Truestar]

Seems like someone wants to ignore the second law of firearms safety.

Consider a short (sawed-off) shotgun with a few rounds in the magazine tube. When needed, insert a special round into the magazine tube from underneath, and then rack it into the chamber. Slugs, flechettes, breaching rounds, sandbags, flares and pyrotechnics, small grenades (HE, incendiary, etc.), big versions of the tranq and gas rounds from snub pistols...

I don't know about the laser portion (the pic makes it look very svelte compared to the firearm), but if that's all of it until you get back to the power pack, you can mount it on a rail above/below/beside the barrel.

As for the slugs, she wants mag-fed fire.
What you are talking about is "load one round at a time" So, that's a non-starter

As for the power pack, the LBB's are clear the power packs for laser weapons are backpacks of varying sizes.
That's why you see the cable in the image.
The backpacks would be based on the standard backpack power pack from the LBBs

 

[Commander Truestar]

Spinny and Enoki are both directionally correct. There are also administrative implications to consider.

It really needs to be a gun that puts 'things' downrange, and let the 'things' do more work than simply transferring kinetic energy gained at the expense of lots of noise and recoil.

• Portable energy weapons are illegal at LL-2.
• A magazine-fed shotgun might be thought of by LBB standards as a light assault weapon, and illegal at LL-4.
• Personal concealable weapons are illegal at LL-5.
  [side Q: does sophont body habitus affect what's considered "concealable"?]
• But a shotgun is legal to LL-7.

And I'm wondering if a break-open double-barrel pistol-grip shotgun, loaded with two low-velocity less-lethal rounds (gas, tranq, sandbags, taser darts) might even qualify as a "stunner" and get as far as LL-8, but that's very very unlikely.

So. Short shotgun with aspirations of launching small grenades; tube-fed, magazine-fed, or even break-open double barrel; with a clip-on laser tube and matching power pack for when you really need to say "FU" at lightspeed. You could add a side-saddle shell holder or a bandolier for when the situation fails to accommodate your plans and you need options to make your message a little more specific and to-the-point.

You are 100% correct
And, each of my players have a small collection of "legal and LL X" weapons, down to their fashionable or not daggers.
So, this weapon is not being designed to fit into legal restrictions

This player and her crew were carrying radioactives and rolled boxcars on the sale chart = So, 400% of the buy price.
They are, for the moment, wealthy and this particular player wanted her "wish weapon"
And, I am agreeing to sell it to her at the cost of a vast amount of her recent gains.

I am sure she'll be thrilled until it becomes a liability or is "confiscated" without payment......

 

[kilemall]

There is already a dual selectable tube pump shotgun on the market, make it a magazine fed and laser carbine, make it laser carbine and it’s all good.

KSG Series Bullpup Shotgun | Downward Shell Ejection | Specs | KelTec

Looking for the best tactical pump-action shotgun? The KSG has dual tubes for fast reloading, downward ejection, and a max 12+12 Capacity.

www.keltecweapons.com

Dual use the laser as a designator for specialized shotgun rounds or general FO work and upgrade the firepower. Nothing says flexibility like shotgun shell, specialized ammo, laser on tap and ortillery for the big finish.

 

[mike wightman]

I've always ruled there is enough energy in a gauss rifle magazine to power a few laser shots...

It has to have a minimum of 360kJ of energy stored within to shoot 40 4g 1500m/s rounds. The question is how may kJ do you need per laser shot?

 

[whartung]

The problem with this is, as a rule, weapons tend to be specialized.

They tend to be specialized because folks have to carry them around, and weight is a factor. So, anything that can trim weight tends to be a good thing, even at the cost of "capability". As a general rule, multi-tools are rarely efficient.

With this pistol, folks are running around with a heavier weapon, with half the ammo, for whatever fight they end up in.

In the large, that's never a good compromise.

 

[willtron3030]

Dual use the laser as a designator for specialized shotgun rounds or general FO work and upgrade the firepower. Nothing says flexibility like shotgun shell, specialized ammo, laser on tap and ortillery for the big finish.

^^^^ THIS.

 

[Commander Truestar]

The problem with this is, as a rule, weapons tend to be specialized.

They tend to be specialized because folks have to carry them around, and weight is a factor. So, anything that can trim weight tends to be a good thing, even at the cost of "capability". As a general rule, multi-tools are rarely efficient.

With this pistol, folks are running around with a heavier weapon, with half the ammo, for whatever fight they end up in.

In the large, that's never a good compromise.

I disagree because....
With this "combined arms" weapon, a trooper is "not" encumbered with both a laser weapon "and" a slug thrower.

A trooper armed with this weapon can use the slugs against the "front line" disposable guards, and switch to laser against the better armed and armored reinforcements without taking a pause to swap weapons.

As for "half the ammo", an assumption is being made that a larger magazine can be bought or made by a gunsmith than the '5-rnds per file' of the generic magazine on display.


So, I would say the efficiencies in reducing the number of weapons carried(and, thereby, the weight) and removing the time required to swap weapons allow anyone entering a combat environment an improved level of operational flexibility.

 

[Commander Truestar]

There is already a dual selectable tube pump shotgun on the market, make it a magazine fed and laser carbine, make it laser carbine and it’s all good.

KSG Series Bullpup Shotgun | Downward Shell Ejection | Specs | KelTec

Looking for the best tactical pump-action shotgun? The KSG has dual tubes for fast reloading, downward ejection, and a max 12+12 Capacity.

www.keltecweapons.com

Dual use the laser as a designator for specialized shotgun rounds or general FO work and upgrade the firepower. Nothing says flexibility like shotgun shell, specialized ammo, laser on tap and ortillery for the big finish.

BTW,
I agree it would be better done as a shotgun/Las-Carb...
But the player wanted a pistol.

Go figure

 

[mike wightman]

If the round is only 6 mm then a double stack of 10 rounds per stack is more reasonable.

Note that ~6mm is body pistol calibre (5g, 77 grain tops), the autopistol is 9mm (10g, 154 grain max)

 

[whartung]

I disagree because....
With this "combined arms" weapon, a trooper is "not" encumbered with both a laser weapon "and" a slug thrower.

A trooper armed with this weapon can use the slugs against the "front line" disposable guards, and switch to laser against the better armed and armored reinforcements without taking a pause to swap weapons.

Combined arms is having a heavy weapons specialist in the squad to take out the better armed and armored reinforcements while the rifle troopers take out the guards and keep the reinforcements heads down. Combined arms is cross training on the equipment should the HWS become disabled, someone else can pick up the weapon and continue on with the roll. Combined arms is instead using the laser to paint the target so the mobile artillery can pound them and turn them into the likeness of strawberry jam (or mint jelly, depending on which planet you're on).

As for "half the ammo", an assumption is being made that a larger magazine can be bought or made by a gunsmith than the '5-rnds per file' of the generic magazine on display.

It's still half the ammo. The other half of the magazine is used for the ammunition that you are not using. (Battery, buwwets, whatever).

15 round magazine and a battery I don't need for a laser gun I'm not using vs a 30 rd magazine with bullets I do need because they're coming over the wall.

Then, of course, there's just the logistics and doctrine and training of it all.

The stark truth is that while choice can empower flexibility, choice also breeds chaos and indecision. Better to have equipment that works in the upper portions of the bell curve, than compromising that effectiveness just to try and reach out to the edges a bit.

A stark example of this is the challenges the US Army is having trying to replace the M4 as an infantry rifle with the, at least currently, M7.

 

[Diveguy]

It'd be easier to simply have a shotgun with either a magazine or detachable tube you can swap out like a magazine. You carry lethal and non-lethal ones and it works well until in the heat of battle you pick and load the wrong one...

That's why non-gaming real world you distinctly never mix your lethal and non-lethal in the same tool (at least in responsible organizations) - and, you use distinctive markings, different placement, or the like to try to minimize the chance of that sort of mix-up. Unfortunately there have been accidents anyway, as you said in the heat of the moment.

Obviously, I'm not a fan of "Set phasers on stun," for that reason.

 

[Enoki]

That's why non-gaming real world you distinctly never mix your lethal and non-lethal in the same tool (at least in responsible organizations) - and, you use distinctive markings, different placement, or the like to try to minimize the chance of that sort of mix-up. Unfortunately there have been accidents anyway, as you said in the heat of the moment.

Obviously, I'm not a fan of "Set phasers on stun," for that reason.

I prefer "Set phasers to 'No witnesses,'" let someone try to sue after that...