Foundation and Traveller

[jjester1]

My first exposure to traveller was back in the days of the original three book set... and now after all these years, I am coming back to it in the days of the new d20 adaptation. I havn't decided whether I like the new system or not, but I am going to give it a shot.

That being said, my question concerns the suitability of using Traveller to run an adventure set in Isaac Asimov's Foundation universe. Has anyone tried this? There are major differences between the Galactic Empire and the Imperium (lack of non-human creatures, lower technology levels, etc.), and I would appreiate hearing from anyone who may have atempted this. Thanks!

 

[WarriorKnight]

Originally posted by Jester:

That being said, my question concerns the suitability of using Traveller to run an adventure set in Isaac Asimov's Foundation universe. Has anyone tried this? There are major differences between the Galactic Empire and the Imperium (lack of non-human creatures, lower technology levels, etc.), and I would appreiate hearing from anyone who may have atempted this. Thanks!

Actually Traveller was in part inspired by The Foundation series.I've found several Foundation referances in Traveller.It shouldn't be very hard to do it with Traveller rules.I gotta go back & read the series again,it's been 20+ years since I read the 1st of the series.

 

[kafka47]

I think it would be a great adventure. Pity, the Asimov never would grant a licence for a RPG without taking the whole kit and kabodle. As I would love to take on the original trilogy, but, when Danieel is defined as the master puppeteer, it became rather boring. As Robots ought to be firmly separated from Foundation, and, Asimov went overboard especially with Prelude...

I guess we will have to see how the Foundation movie with its emphasis on the Mule pans out...

 

[WarriorKnight]

Oh yea.Since I frist heard they were making a movie of the series,I've been more excited about seeing the final product than I was for Lord of the Rings. Traveller(IMHO) is actually the best rpg system to do a Foundation game with.I'm kind of becoming the "old fart"

when it comes to new systems.I agree the Robots stuff shouldn't have been connected w/Foundation.You know how hard it is to find all of the Robot books,darn near impossible.I think the last Foundation book I read was Foundation & Earth(that was the one where they did the connect wasn't it?).

 

[jjester1]

Wow... they ARE making a foundation movie? I had not heard that... what are the specifics? And thanks for the input.. would you exclude robots as a part of a traveller/foundation adaptation?

Also... I have been on an Asimov rampage recently... I've almost completed my collection by using Border's used book services... the robot books ARE becoming less avilable, but they are all still out there.

 

[TKalbfus]

Some things to consider.
1) Foundation is Galactic in scope, much like Star Wars. This tends to make mapping difficult. 100 billion stars. You might want to map only a small section of the Galaxy.
2) Hyperdrives, not jump drives. The starships don't spend anytime at all in hyperspace. The starship starts out here and end up there with only a brief transition to hyperspace. Perhaps you ought to consider a 100 AU jump limit from each systems star. Hyperdrives would be rated from 1 to 6 parsecs, but they are not very power intensive, and can be reengaged after about 30 minutes of hyperspace calculations. This would make from quicker travel through the galaxy.
3)Most starships are powered by fuel cells. A fuel cell provides sufficient power to power a hyperdrive or a maneuver drive, so reduce the power requirements for each.
4) Atomic Energy is high technology, many worlds don't even have that.
5) Fusion Energy is also available on high tech worlds, when used in combination with atomic fission any element can be transformed into any other usually at a cost in energy.
6) All planets with standard atmosphere have been terraformed at some point in their remote past. All animal encounters are with either Earth life or bioengineered Earth life
7) The highest tech level is 15. Semi-intelligent robots exist. Higher TL 16+ robots are lurking in the galaxy, but they choose not to reveil themselves.
8) You have to figure out some way to work Psychohistory into the campaign.

 

[simontmn]

Originally posted by Tom Kalbfus:
6) All planets with standard atmosphere have been terraformed at some point in their remote past. All animal encounters are with either Earth life or bioengineered Earth life

Not quite all - I remember an Asimov short story about the human scientists observing the only non-human intelligent species ever discovered by the Galactic Empire - a primitive low-tech race which for some reason I think were reminiscent of the goodies from the Dark Crystal movie!

 

[TKalbfus]

Which brings to mind what sort of adventures could you do in a Foundation setting. No alien civilizations to discover. Any Civilizations are human. You could use the same animal encounters table for each planet. Dinosaur planets are possible if you allow for the existance of "Jurassic Park" Technology. PCs could originate on a primitive planet and discover technology left over from the Galactic Empire. There's Piracy and the military campaign. If you travel far enough outside of the galaxy you would find alot of dead and uninhabited planets. Perhaps there is a distant alien civilization in another Galaxy. Alien life is not to frequent.

 

[Richard Saunders]

Hello.
Unless you have read the 456th book of the trilogy (sarcasum) you know the one with the planet Gia (sentient planet) just waiting for the extra galactic races to invade the galaxy and inslave all of use.
BYE.

 

[sandman]

Originally posted by Lionel Deffries:
Hello.
Unless you have read the 456th book of the trilogy (sarcasum) you know the one with the planet Gia (sentient planet)[...]

Gaia

In reference to many theory/beliefs that Our planet is a Living Being, developed by Lovelock and others:

http://www.lancs.ac.uk/users/philosophy/mave/guide/gaiath~1.htm

 

[kafka47]

I would exclude that whole thing that began with Prelude to Foundation. Revisiting the classic may have seen as a good idea to build toward Foundation & Earth, but, placing all of humaniti's hopes on interfering positronic monsters and only find out that biosystems are much more effective was a bit of a let down.

Rather, I would want have the books based upon the classic trilogy, especially, Foundation and Empire, is just so TNE -- at least in IMHO.

 

[Richard Saunders]

Hello.
I would have placed Foundation at the start of the long night, Foundation and Empire at the birth of the 3rd Imperium, Foundation and Empire where ever you want but probably during the consolidation phase just before the resumption of exspansion into the rest of the galaxy.
You could do it with T20 if you made all jumps take no time so you would only have maneuvering to and from jump and around in system to clear lanes for jump.
Atomic power wasnt high tech, most if not all the galaxy had it before the fall started (it was the will not the tech that they lacked).
BYE.

 

[TKalbfus]

I read the books. There were plenty of planets that didn't have atomic power but did have fleets of starships they could threaten Terminus with. This means that starships didn't need atomic reactors to operate. Instead what they had was an efficient reactionless drive that could be powered by a fuel cell. Diverting that power to the hyperdrive is all thats required to travel many light years. Most of the starship's fuel gets used up climbing in and out of planetary gravity well's. To keep this realistic, I'd say a starship would free fall into a planet and use its heat shields to slow down and only use its fuel cells to climb out again. Atomic power has high tech and fusion was unheard of.

 

[Jame]

WAIT a second. Someone's making a Foundation movie? Who? What? When? Where? Why? How???

Atomic piles were high-tech in the fifties, and Asimov only revised the later books (though I have no knowledge of any but the five up to Foundation and Earth). He's dead now, so he can't rewrite them.

 

[kafka47]

Information about the movie, I have been getting details from the SciFi channel's weekly bulletin ( web page ) Take a poke around their archives and see what you can find.

 

[jjester1]

I have been away from my terminal for a while, so this is the first I've had a chance to check out the thread. I am quite impressed with the commentary, and there are a number of good suggestions (as well as some interesting gripes!).

Thanks especially to Tom Kalbfus... great stuff! Question for you: how would you deal, in Traveller terms, with the extreme differential between the Foundation's technology level and the Galactic Empire's technology level? Should GE tech be the top level of Traveller's scale and the Foundation's be placed at an even higher level (requiring a rules modification?)? It seems to me that that is the logical way to go about it, as the Foundation's tech seems WAY above that defined by the rules!

Thanks, and I eagerly await more...

 

[kafka47]

I would definately place the Galatic Empire at TL F. However, what Foundation are you talking about? The infant foundation would be placed somewhere in the C-D range, as you have to remember in the early days, they won more battles with wit and subterfudge than with technology. As the Foundation was dedicated to the improvement of existing technology and to be a repository for the most advanced technologies of the Empire.

Late Foundation takes us to the realm of Portals, as the only Traveller explaination to the marvelous Gravity drive. But, I wouldn't let issues of technology get bogged down for the good story.

 

[TKalbfus]

Look at it this way, the post Galactic Empire Foundation Universe is in general a late Tech Level 5 to 8 Galaxy except for grav vehicles and hyperdrives, the other technologies have gone into decline. For instance, the computer sitting on your desk right now is an example of the kind of computer you'd typically find in the Foundation Universe. Air/Rafts would typically run on an internal combustion engine such as the kind under your car's hood, but that engine is hooked up to a generator that feeds electricity into the grav units propelling the vehicle. Grav units are easy to make and the technology specific to their manufacture has been preserved out of necessity, otherwise space travel and interstellar fiefdoms would be impossible. The Warlords, self-declared kings, and petty Emperors have seen to the maintenance of that technology and also the hyperdrive technology. But hyperdrives and grav units, being the product of 12,000 years of technological advancement are so efficient that they don't need fusion or even fission reactors to power them. The Galactic Empire contrived to make these technologies so efficient for a very specific reason, they wanted to discourage the private individual use of fission and fusion reactors, because the ability to build one implies the ability to make fission and fusion bombs which can blow up cities. Fission and fusion reactor technology was a closely guarded secret by the Empires technocrats, while grav and hyperdrive technology was not. The Foundation had whatever tech the Empire gave them, because some feared that Hari Seldon could be right, they just didn't want him hanging around Trantor and spreading panic, so they sent him and his Foundation off to Terminus.

To sum it up the Foundation Universe is like today's society but with grav vehicles and starships added. How's that for a rationale?

 

[kafka47]

Sounds like the review of the Caves of Steel that I once read, which concluded that Asimov's world was merely that of 1950s with Robots thrown in as a substitute for the racial problems of his day.

However, I would take issue that Foundation is merely today revamped with Grav Vechiles. True many of the worlds in the Foundation universe seem very technological backward. But, that is due to long fall of the Galatic Empire, not expanding evenly. I think Asimov at heart was always trying to be the Scientist, and suggesting things would evolve only according to the known laws of the universe. Therefore, he took away the fantastic from Speculative Fiction and just speculated what will be is now but forward.

I am not sure what drives the attraction to the Foundation series. Personally, I think it was the fact the novels were concieved as serials for the pulps keeps the action and prose fast paced enough and yet offer continuity from one part to the next.

 

[TKalbfus]

However, I would take issue that Foundation is merely today revamped with Grav Vechiles. True many of the worlds in the Foundation universe seem very technological backward. But, that is due to long fall of the Galatic Empire, not expanding evenly. I think Asimov at heart was always trying to be the Scientist, and suggesting things would evolve only according to the known laws of the universe. Therefore, he took away the fantastic from Speculative Fiction and just speculated what will be is now but forward.

Well of course its due to the fall of the Galactic Empire, but whatever the cause, just list the things a typical Foundation Universe doesn't have. No robots, No A.I.s, No fusion. The only fusion that occurs is at the center of stars. Information is stored on microfilm and is read through viewers. There is no Internet. Basically just rayguns and spaceships.