"Forbidden" canon questions

[ninthcouncil]

A question about when a subject must be considered "forbidden canon: I'm particularly interested in the position of a minor human race called the Geonee, but they can equally serve as an illustration of grey areas in the "forbidden canon" concept which I wondered if anyone could illuminate further.

The Geonee were described in most detail in Traveller's Digest 11 (which I don't possess, but I've been able to get most of the information one way or another), and are also mentioned (and illustrated) in Solomani & Aslan. These are DGP publications and as such part of the "forbidden canon".

However, the Geonee are also mentioned in TAS bulletins which appeared in Challenge and subsequently in Survival Margin. The reports make it clear that the Geonee are a minor human race from Massilia of compact stature, who suffer from persecution during the rebellion. These publications are copyrighted GDW, so are part of normal canon. It should be noted however that GDW's "Knightfall", which is set in and details the Massilia sector, does NOT mention them.

Would I be right in assuming that therefore the Genoee's existence, and the bare facts about them covered in Survival Margin, are "permitted", but that details about them which appear *only* in DGP publications (their unconventional views about the nature of the Ancients, the role of chirpers in their social system etc.) are "forbidden"? To use them publically would thus require rewriting the race - which is a pity, as they're really rather interesting.

Or, despite their presence in non-DGP material, are the Geonee completely off-limits?

 

[Ben W Bell]

Probably only off limits if you wish to publish details on them or stuff that has then in it. For personal stuff there is no such thing as off limits.

 

[daryen]

I doubt Geonee fall much into forbidden canon. At worst, just wait until June when they should be nicely detailed in GT:Humaniti.

But just based on what is already on the web (e.g. http://members.lycos.co.uk/caf/gos/geonee.html) I figure the Geonee are fair game.

 

[kafka47]

Could it be that all that we discuss as forbidden, is slowly leaking through as we talk[/publish] around the subject thereby reducing what is forbidden to the status of a footnote?

Oscar Wilde

Having stated above why don't we inquire if there is anything else that we cannot touch. Several references to DGP are made in The Regency Sourcebook (GDW) does that mean that we cannot quote the Regency Sourcebook, as an authority. It seems that like everything in this game, we can get around the violations of copyright by just writing and suggesting alternatives thereby filling in the Traveller universe, for those things that we would miss most.

So other than the artwork what do we miss most about DGP that has not already been covered by GDW, GT or will be covered in the upcoming Gateway Sourcebook?

 

[ninthcouncil]

Originally posted by daryen:
I doubt Geonee fall much into forbidden canon. At worst, just wait until June when they should be nicely detailed in GT:Humaniti.

But just based on what is already on the web (e.g. http://members.lycos.co.uk/caf/gos/geonee.html) I figure the Geonee are fair game.

Yes, it was Carlos's stuff that I mainly meant by "one way or another" to in my original post

 

[Geonee]

Originally posted by daryen:
I doubt Geonee fall much into forbidden canon. At worst, just wait until June when they should be nicely detailed in GT:Humaniti.

But just based on what is already on the web (e.g. http://members.lycos.co.uk/caf/gos/geonee.html) I figure the Geonee are fair game.

Unless the SJG guys found something else (it's been more than a year since we handled this), the Geonee article in GT:Humaniti will be mine, based on the material already on my webpage (the address you quote). Now I am wondering: do I have to take that webpage out if/when Humaniti is published? You are warned.

What I was told by Loren was that the Geonee could be used because they were repeatedly mentioned in GDW products. They raised no objections to the article I sent them. In my article, everything is "consistent" with all GDW *and* DGP materials on them. A pity the G:T setting does not allow to treat the Rebellion's "Geoneecide".

Anyway, I am really wondering if Humaniti will ever be published. It's been ages since I last heard of SJG.

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by Carlos:
Unless the SJG guys found something else (it's been more than a year since we handled this), the Geonee article in GT:Humaniti will be mine, based on the material already on my webpage (the address you quote). Now I am wondering: do I have to take that webpage out if/when Humaniti is published? You are warned.

I doubt you would have to take it down. You might have to remove any stuff that duplicates their stuff, but you should be able to keep all of the Rebellion and TNE related stuff. If I remember right, less than half your site should be affected.

I'm in a similar spot with my Darrian stuff. I will update it to reflect what Humaniti presents, but I am not going to take it down. (Unless told to, but I doubt that will happen.) I will have to make sure I don't dublicate too much, however.

Anyway, I am really wondering if Humaniti will ever be published. It's been ages since I last heard of SJG.

Well, according to their website, Humaniti is slated for a June release. Please understand that it was supposed to come out last November, but has been slipped at least twice. However, it hasn't slipped recently, and if it is still slated for June when the May releases are made, it will likely really be released in June.

Another positive factor is that SJG employees have been freely saying, in the forums, that it (and Starships) are coming out. They usually won't do that until they are confident that is the case.

 

[Ben W Bell]

I think you'll find that with the S J Games writing guidelines they are only paying for the paper rights to your work, not the electronic rights. However you are supposed to give them first offer on buying the electronics rights to it. If you think it's a problem then ask them, they can either buy the electronic rights or turn them down in which case you can keep it there.

 

[Geonee]

Originally posted by ninthcouncil:
The Geonee were described in most detail in Traveller's Digest 11

<SNIP>

It should be noted however that GDW's "Knightfall", which is set in and details the Massilia sector, does NOT mention them.

A different thread (MT section) reminded me... the reason Knightfall did not mention the Geonee (IMHO) is that the Library data in GDW's KF was merely reprinted (verbatim, IIRC) from DGP's TD 11, where it was just "spice" for the Geonee's sector. That is, KF took as Library Data what was originally meant to be an account of what was in Massilia *other* than the Geonee.

 

[T. Foster]

Originally posted by Carlos:
A different thread (MT section) reminded me... the reason Knightfall did not mention the Geonee (IMHO) is that the Library data in GDW's KF was merely reprinted (verbatim, IIRC) from DGP's TD 11, where it was just "spice" for the Geonee's sector. That is, KF took as Library Data what was originally meant to be an account of what was in Massilia *other* than the Geonee.

FWIW (surely not much) the Massilia Sector LD in Knightfall was verbatim frm TD11 except that KF typically added a sentence or two mentioning which side the world had sided with in the Rebellion (TD11 was set pre-Rebellion). I didn't like DGP's practice of mapping fixed borders between factions (it takes away too much of the fluidity and uncertainty that's IMO essential to the setting) so I ignore these 'updates' IMTU (and therefore the KF/Massilia entries I cut and pasted from my files into the COTI Library Data page don't include them either).