Fixing T5 - SINGLE SHOT WEAPONS

[Supplement Four]

T5 and SINGLE SHOT WEAPONS



Problem: Page 211 says, "In a Round, every partipant has the opportunity to move and to use a weapon (or to do some other activity like use a communicator or operate an important device." Then, Page 214 describes the three attack types: Aimed Fire, AutoFire, and SnapFire.

If a PC uses a single fire weapon (which covers almost all pistols and many rifles and shotguns), then the only attack type open to him is Aimed Fire (because the PC's weapon is not capable of burst, automatic, or continuous fire).

The way the rules are written, if a PC uses a pistol, then he cannot both attack and move in the same combat round. Why? The Aimed Fire attack type specifically states on page 214 that a person cannot be moving while attempting Aimed Fire.

Normal semi-automatic pistols, revolvers, many rifles and shotguns cannot be used for SnapFire because those weapons are not capable of burst, automatic, or continuous fire.

Thus, if you use a pistol in this game, your choice is to either move or attack, but not both, during a combat round that averages one minute in length (and you can only fire at one target if you choose to fire!).







Solution: Allow Single Fire weapons to conduct SnapFire.

A character with a single shot weapon has two choices in combat. He can conduct AimedFire or SnapFire.

Single Shot Weapon - AimedFire means attacking or moving in the round, but not both. If an attack is made, the Fighting Task is made with no additional modifiers.

Single Shot Weaon - SnapFire* allows the character to both move and attack during the round, but any attacks are made with +2D difficulty (but also provides +1D damage if penetration is achieved).

*The T5 rules conflict on how much movement is allowed with SnapFire. Page 214 stipulates that only Speed=0 and Speed=1 is allowed with the attack type, while the table on page 218 clearly shows Speed=0, Speed=1, and Speed=2 all are allowed.

I suggest that SnapFire be used up to Speed=3 so that characters using weapons capable of burst fire or full auto have a reason to use the attack type.






A character using a weapon capable of burst, automatic, or continous fire has three attack options.

Burst/Auto Weapon - AimedFire means attacking or moving in the round, but not both. If an attack is made, the Fighting Task is made with no additional modifiers.

Burst/Auto Weapon - SnapFire allows the character to both move and attack during the round, but any attacks are made with +2D difficulty (but also provides +1D damage if penetration is achieved). If a character needs to run (Speed=3) and attack in the same combat round, this is the option to use.

Burst/Auto Weapon - AutoFire allows the character to both move and attack during the round, but any attacks are made with a +1D difficulty (but also provides +2D damage if penetration is achieved). Movement is limited to Speed=0 or Speed=1.

 

[atpollard]

Not a criticism or a complaint, just a point of confusion from someone only a little familiar with T5:

Why does a snap shot gain +2D damage on a penetration?
Does that mean a gun will do more damage if I shoot hastily and still hit than if I aim carefully?

 

[Supplement Four]

Why does a snap shot gain +2D damage on a penetration?

That's how its written in T5.

Does that mean a gun will do more damage if I shoot hastily and still hit than if I aim carefully?

Penetration is figured by using damage roll vs. Armor. Damage higher than armor penetrates.

What I take the rule to mean is that Penetration is figured without the extra +2D damage, and if armor is penetrated, then add the +2D damage.

It's part of damage but not part of penetration.

At least, that's my interpretation.





As to why Marc added that to the rules, I can only speculate. Since one attack task represents one or several pulls of the trigger, the extra damage from SnapShot represents the extra lead put into the air.

In CT, weapons that fired more lead did more damage, usually.

Note that AutoFire has a similar damage additive.

 

[Hemdian]

The problem I have with this solution is that there are some single shot weapons for which snap shot fire is NOT appropriate. One example, and not the only one, that comes to mind is a LAW rocket. (I also disagree with the way the issue is framed. I see NO issue with the APPARENT contradiction between p211 and p214 for reasons stated in another thread.) I do think SOME single shot weapons (eg. modern pistols) can conduct snap shots, but allowing ALL single shot weapons to do so is overly broad.

I think there is a missing category between single shot and burst. 'Repeating', for want of a better term, would include semiautomatics and revolvers. They should be allowed to conduct snap shots, while true single shot weapons cannot.

 

[atpollard]

As to why Marc added that to the rules, I can only speculate. Since one attack task represents one or several pulls of the trigger, the extra damage from SnapShot represents the extra lead put into the air.

Thanks.
So one good aimed shot will give me a better chance of hitting the target, but emptying a revolver in 'panic-fire' mode means that I could get lucky and hit the target more than once ... that makes sense.

 

[Supplement Four]

The problem I have with this solution is that there are some single shot weapons for which snap shot fire is NOT appropriate. One example, and not the only one, that comes to mind is a LAW rocket.

It's an abstract system. Is is clear how many times a LAW (or LAWs) can be used in a round?

I mean, ammo isn't tracked. And, a single task throw could represents a single shot from a revolver or even 3 mags full of ammo from an ACR on burst fire.

Maybe multiple LAW firiings are also included?

I'm not sure how abstract the system is.

Guess it comes down to GM call and common sense.

 

[Hemdian]

It's an abstract system. Is is clear how many times a LAW (or LAWs) can be used in a round?

I mean, ammo isn't tracked. And, a single task throw could represents a single shot from a revolver or even 3 mags full of ammo from an ACR on burst fire.

Maybe multiple LAW firiings are also included?

I'm not sure how abstract the system is.

Guess it comes down to GM call and common sense.

Ammo use might not be closely tracked but it's not completely ignored either. Some of the text that was unfortunately dropped from the beta (unless I've missed it) explained this:

- Energy projectors do not require reloading within the context of a battle.
- A single-shot launcher requires reloading after each shot.
- Most other weapon require reloading after 3 rounds of firing.

However, reloading is automatic for most weapons, including machineguns, if speed is 1 or less (ie. Standing still or walking.) Reloading occurs during the Situation phase of a round.
​

(You could argue whether it still applies since this is from the beta, but I think it at least explains part of Marc's thinking.)

For a LAW and similar weapons this works perfectly for the rules as written: Fire, reload, fire, reload ...

But a revolver does not require a reload between firing, most can fire six times before reloading. Which is why I favour the 'missing weapon type' solution: If a 'single shot' weapon can fire again without reloading then it's not really a single shot weapon. But nor is a revolver a 'burst' weapon. It's a repeating single shot that can function as if it were a burst weapon. That's the missing piece of the rules.

 

[Supplement Four]

Ammo use might not be closely tracked but it's not completely ignored either. Some of the text that was unfortunately dropped from the beta (unless I've missed it) explained this:

- Energy projectors do not require reloading within the context of a battle.
- A single-shot launcher requires reloading after each shot.
- Most other weapon require reloading after 3 rounds of firing.

However, reloading is automatic for most weapons, including machineguns, if speed is 1 or less (ie. Standing still or walking.) Reloading occurs during the Situation phase of a round.
​

(You could argue whether it still applies since this is from the beta, but I think it at least explains part of Marc's thinking.)

This isn't the first time I've heard this. It seems that there was a lot of neat ideas dropped in the beta--stuff I think have become issues and problems with T5 now.