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Evaluation of Kinunir colonial cruiser on the MONGOOSE High Guard Update 2022

Raising once again the issue of whether the game is simulating future technology or whether it's simulating (now-obsolete) science fiction
Well, they did mention that the ablative re-entry was faster than a grav re-entry. You could combine them.

Use the ablative re-entry down to, say, 1000 feet, jettison the capsule and click on the grav belt to slow you down and land you (as well as later mobility).

Just adds options, use dependent on situational circumstances.

The other part not mentioned is there's, potentially, no real need for an ablative shell and coming in like a meteor.

We have ships with big drives. They can just STOP in orbit and folks can hop out like those guys dropping from those very high balloons.

We have fiery re-entry because the objects are coming in at orbital speeds. Well, "don't do that".

Obviously it depends on how high they start out at, but ships can come in pretty "low" to deploy.

I don't know if you're dumped in vacuum and just start falling how much speed you'll gain before you hit the atmosphere, and if that's fast enough to warrant all the shielding, or you can just slowly decelerate to terminal velocity. Maybe you won't get burnt to a cinder.

If you scatter your troops in drop capsules from orbit like seeds in the wind, its going to make the drops during D-day look like precision paratroop demonstrations, guys scattered half way across the continent. Look how much trouble they had with the F-15 crew in Iran because they ejected at different times.
 
Part of my understanding of Drop Troops /Meteoric Assault is the capability of Rapid Insertion / Difficult Interception. If those factors are not in play, you might as well use an Assault Lander or G/Carrier-APC.

See that they are not mutually exclusive...

You can send the g-carriers (or landers, or whatever) down and release your BD/Grav Belt equiped troops mid-way, descending by themselves, while the g-carrier either returns or lands to support...
 


The Drop Ship - Aliens

Aliens 1986
Aliens is a science fiction action film written and directed by James Cameron. It is the sequel to the 1979 science fiction horror film Alien, and the second film in the Alien franchise. Set in the far future, the film stars Sigourney Weaver as Ellen Ripley, the sole survivor of an alien attack on her ship. Wikipedia



Should consider leaving the dropship sealed on landing.
 
Can the Kinunir enter the upper atmosphere with its Black Globe on and simply release grav belt equipped chamelon-surfaced battle dress troops to float down unhindered?
(I can't remember the limitations on black globes)
 
Can the Kinunir enter the upper atmosphere with its Black Globe on and simply release grav belt equipped chamelon-surfaced battle dress troops to float down unhindered?
(I can't remember the limitations on black globes)

The Black Globe is a two-way screen. They would be drained of all energy/shunted when they contacted the inner surface boundary. You would have to drop the Globe to let them pass.

Also, the globe would be absorbing heat and kinetic energy from the atmosphere while on.
 
Can the Kinunir enter the upper atmosphere with its Black Globe on and simply release grav belt equipped chamelon-surfaced battle dress troops to float down unhindered?
(I can't remember the limitations on black globes)
Sure ... you can do that ...
ONCE. 💥

Any vehicles/troops that hit the screen will be ... no longer intact ... and their E=mc2 mass will be transferred to the jump capacitors as energy ... and the screen works both ways so ... a Bad Time™ will be had by All ...

The "unhindered" part is where the assumption breaks down/fails pretty catastrophically.
Also, the globe would be absorbing heat and kinetic energy from the atmosphere while on.
And if the black globe is just ON (100%) then you can't dump any of the energy intake out of the (jump capacitor) system ... meaning that YOU'RE ON THE CLOCK for how long you can do that kind of thing. Take too long and ... whoops! :eek: 💥
 
Well, they did mention that the ablative re-entry was faster than a grav re-entry. You could combine them.

Use the ablative re-entry down to, say, 1000 feet, jettison the capsule and click on the grav belt to slow you down and land you (as well as later mobility).
That was my suggestion - replace the parachute with a grav belt, and use it for low altitude stealthy flight.

Just adds options, use dependent on situational circumstances.

The other part not mentioned is there's, potentially, no real need for an ablative shell and coming in like a meteor.

We have ships with big drives. They can just STOP in orbit and folks can hop out like those guys dropping from those very high balloons.

We have fiery re-entry because the objects are coming in at orbital speeds. Well, "don't do that".

Obviously it depends on how high they start out at, but ships can come in pretty "low" to deploy.

I don't know if you're dumped in vacuum and just start falling how much speed you'll gain before you hit the atmosphere, and if that's fast enough to warrant all the shielding, or you can just slowly decelerate to terminal velocity. Maybe you won't get burnt to a cinder.
It's fast enough that you'll get somewhat broiled, and it sure as hell won't be stealthy. I'd assume that a drop like that would involve thrusters/gravitics, and would need to be relatively slow. High speed re-entries are for when stealth isn't important, and the ship dropping them can't/won't slow down to give a nero-zero velocity relative to the ground. Well, also for lower TLs where the thrusters and their power supplies aren't as good.
 
Well, also for lower TLs where the thrusters and their power supplies aren't as good.

See that at those TLs you don't have CA/BD, so any drop from space should be either in sealed jump capsules or in Vac Suits, in both cases very dangerous... By the time you have CA, the Grav tech is mature enough as to be used.

Even at those lower TLs, I don't believe jump capsules to be the best way.

This is what I posted years ago for 2300AD, where there are no gravitics, when trying to adapt my Planetary Invasion TF to it:

current doctrine would be to use the landers to take the four light infantry companies into atmospheric space, where they would perform a paratroop assault (probably using HALO from high atmosphere, so that the landing ships could return quicker to take more troops or supplies)
 
Sure ... you can do that ...
ONCE. 💥

Any vehicles/troops that hit the screen will be ... no longer intact ... and their E=mc2 mass will be transferred to the jump capacitors as energy ... and the screen works both ways so ... a Bad Time™ will be had by All ...

The "unhindered" part is where the assumption breaks down/fails pretty catastrophically.

And if the black globe is just ON (100%) then you can't dump any of the energy intake out of the (jump capacitor) system ... meaning that YOU'RE ON THE CLOCK for how long you can do that kind of thing. Take too long and ... whoops! :eek: 💥
Fair enough - although surely you can set the flicker to a nice low rate to allow objects to exit the forcefield. I assume that is what you do for missiles in High Guard combat.
I acknowledge that means you are detectable and a target while you are flickering.
 
I assume that is what you do for missiles in High Guard combat.
Missiles don't have any "important organic bits" that cause catastrophic survival failures if they get ... removed ... unexpectedly ...

LBB5.80, p42:
These limitations would make the black globe of little value in battle if not for the ability of the field generator to flicker-- switch the field on and off many times per second-- giving the ship part-time protection while still allowing it to fire, maneuver, and track enemy ships during the "off" intervals.
The problem of pushing manned craft (jump capsules or grav vehicles or small craft) through a flickering black globe is ... 🎲🎲

You really don't want that flickering "many times per second" factor to ... unceremoniously and randomly 🗡️ REMOVE 🗡️ ... let's call them "body parts" ... of any personnel passing through the black globe flickering field.

Sure, you might be able to survive with 10% of your body mass missing ... but would you want to ...? :oops:

I mean, you're talking about something on the order of doing this ... :eek:


I recommend you rethink the assumptions underlying what you're attempting to do with this idea. 🛑
 
Missiles don't have any "important organic bits" that cause catastrophic survival failures if they get ... removed ... unexpectedly ...

LBB5.80, p42:

The problem of pushing manned craft (jump capsules or grav vehicles or small craft) through a flickering black globe is ... 🎲🎲

You really don't want that flickering "many times per second" factor to ... unceremoniously and randomly 🗡️ REMOVE 🗡️ ... let's call them "body parts" ... of any personnel passing through the black globe flickering field.

Sure, you might be able to survive with 10% of your body mass missing ... but would you want to ...? :oops:

I mean, you're talking about something on the order of doing this ... :eek:


I recommend you rethink the assumptions underlying what you're attempting to do with this idea. 🛑
Yes, I do understand. Maybe flicker was the wrong choice of words. I meant lower the screen long enough for the troops to fly out using their grav belts and then raise the screen full again.
This time with the shield lowered would be shorter if the screen was closer to the ship because then the troops could fly past the screen in a second or two - I'm not aware of anywhere in canon that describes the location of a black globe screen. Is it just beyond touching distance from the vessel? Is it a hundred meters away? Further?
 
I always build according to MT rules, so I use the following. There is no mention of self-destruction, but I consider it optional.

CONSOLIDATED MEGATRAVELLER ERRATA v2.21

DROP CAPSULES: AVAILABILITY​

(Omission)
Atmospheric Reentry Capsule (ARC): Constructed at TL13 and used by military and mercenary organizations. The ARC is lightly armored (8F) and can accommodate one Battle Dress-equipped trooper with some supplies (4.0 kl of space for the trooper with 2.5 kl of additional storage volume and 430.3 kg maximum allowable weight). Battery power lasts one hour, allowing the capsule to deliver the trooper to the surface and return to the pre-designated recovery point. Guidance is by on-board inertial navigation with a hand computer providing guidance and control.
(Omission)
Assault Atmospheric Reentry Capsule – High Survivability (AARC-HS): The AARC-HS is a TL15 design intended for use in very high-threat insertions and is only used by the military. Armor is increased (28G) and a set of ten decoy launchers is installed. During re-entry, these launchers deploy decoys that mimic the signature of a drop capsule, providing multiple false targets to draw surface defensive fire away from the capsules carrying troopers. Additional storage space is reduced to 1.42 kl and is reduced to 476.5 kg, but performance remains identical to the other drop capsules.

DROP CAPSULES: LAUNCH AND RECOVERY​

The following devices can be installed to allow military vessels or craft to launch drop capsules from orbit and recover them after return to orbit. Note that the sale of military launchers and ancillary equipment are restricted by Imperial authorities, so only military vessels and licensed mercenary organizations can legally obtain them.
(Omission)
Drop Capsule Recovery Bay: Recovery of returned drop capsules cannot be accomplished through the launch tubes or through standard airlocks. Vehicle or craft bays can be used for this purpose, but this interferes with other vessel operations so normally a recovery bay (essentially an over-sized air lock) will be installed in a location adjacent to the launchers. The automated navigation system on the drop capsule is designed to return the capsule to its point of launch or a pre-determined recovery point. Returning capsules will remain stationary in that location, awaiting recovery instructions. A recovery bay includes a regional-range (500 km) radio transmitter to transmit information used to remotely maneuver capsules into the recovery bay.
 
Yes, I do understand. Maybe flicker was the wrong choice of words. I meant lower the screen long enough for the troops to fly out using their grav belts and then raise the screen full again.
This time with the shield lowered would be shorter if the screen was closer to the ship because then the troops could fly past the screen in a second or two - I'm not aware of anywhere in canon that describes the location of a black globe screen. Is it just beyond touching distance from the vessel? Is it a hundred meters away? Further?
Well, it's a 'globe', so spherical. So you'd want the generator mounted as close to the centre of the ship as possible, and its diameter would be slightly greater than the ship's longest dimension. What that means in terms of power requirements, effective size of the ship for detection purposes, and so on varies by rules set.

Fire, Fusion, & Steel had a note about having the globe come into contract with solid objects:
1775986683694.png

Note that bit about dropping the temperature of objects to absolute zero. Not good for your trooper...
 
always build according to MT rules, so I use the following. There is no mention of self-destruction, but I consider it optional.
Those capsules in MT seem to work with gravitics instead of parachutes and ablative armor.

Even so, I don't believe an hour of power endurance is enough to be able to reach orbit again to be recovered... I don't remember in MT, but in CT you needed WSP size hours to reach orbit, so a single hour endurance would clearly not be enough.

OTOH, if they descend through ablative armor, even if the brake is by gravitics (instead of chutes), the capsule would need extensive refitting to be used again (at least, ablative armor replacement)
 
Note that bit about dropping the temperature of objects to absolute zero. Not good for your trooper...
Yes, although again, I'm envisaging the screen being off for the brief time it takes the troopers to transit beyond its location using their grav belts.
 
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