Evaluation of Kinunir colonial cruiser on the MONGOOSE High Guard Update 2022

[magmagmag]

Articles related to the Marines of the Mongoose Third Imperium pp.22

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The Traveller Core Rulebook includes three branch assignments for Travellers in the marines: support, star marine and ground assault.

Support includes quartermasters, combat engineers, medics, cavalry and staff. These are the marines who run the raids, manage the drops and run the command post during a lift operation. They are also the corpsmen, the combat medics who patch the infantry back up and ship them out or put them back into service. Marine units are accustomed to absorbing a high casualty rate. A qualified support team is the glue that keeps a regiment or MEF running after the attrition of war takes its toll. It should be noted that support staff are equally trained and capable of picking up a rifle and donning a suit of combat armour when called upon to do so. Star marines and ground assault are two sides of the same coin: infantry.

Star marines focus on raiding and other shipborne operations and ground assault focus on lift-infantry and jump-troop operations. To some extent, marines from both branches are interchangeable. They have similar skills and are trained on the same weapons and gear for the most part. However, where star marines rely on instinct, small arms and precise training regimens, ground assault marines are more skilled in the use of heavy weapons, military tactics and coordinating operations with naval transport or marine armour units.

 

[jec10]

Articles related to the Marines of the Mongoose Third Imperium pp.22

//////////////
The Traveller Core Rulebook includes three branch assignments for Travellers in the marines: support, star marine and ground assault.

Support includes quartermasters, combat engineers, medics, cavalry and staff. These are the marines who run the raids, manage the drops and run the command post during a lift operation. They are also the corpsmen, the combat medics who patch the infantry back up and ship them out or put them back into service. Marine units are accustomed to absorbing a high casualty rate. A qualified support team is the glue that keeps a regiment or MEF running after the attrition of war takes its toll. It should be noted that support staff are equally trained and capable of picking up a rifle and donning a suit of combat armour when called upon to do so. Star marines and ground assault are two sides of the same coin: infantry.

Star marines focus on raiding and other shipborne operations and ground assault focus on lift-infantry and jump-troop operations. To some extent, marines from both branches are interchangeable. They have similar skills and are trained on the same weapons and gear for the most part. However, where star marines rely on instinct, small arms and precise training regimens, ground assault marines are more skilled in the use of heavy weapons, military tactics and coordinating operations with naval transport or marine armour units.

MJD has to some extent overwritten the Third Imperium military stuff in his FFW series of MGT products. And Mongoose has now said they will be producing a dedicated Marines lorebook.

 

[whulorigan]

MJD has to some extent overwritten the Third Imperium military stuff in his FFW series of MGT products. And Mongoose has now said they will be producing a dedicated Marines lorebook.

Yes. Specifically a Sector Fleet used to be an administrative Regional Named Fleet consisting of all of the Imperial Fleets assigned to or operating within a given Sector. It's primary elements were the numbered Imperial Subsector Fleets.

And the Subsector Navies were something different altogether, being local forces under the civilian oversight of the Subsector Dukes (but "Imperialized" and reinforced as Reserve Fleets during wartime for local defense).

MJD has equated the two Subsector Forces as Imperial Reserves, and imagined the Sector Fleet as an independent Fleet structure with Squadrons & units stationed at bases across a Sector.

What magmagmag quoted above about Marines lines up with the MgT2 Core Rulebook (and isn't far off from the USMC division of anything not Infantry being either direct Combat Support or Combat Service Support).

 

[magmagmag]

The CT jump capsule has a description of self-destruction, but it seems that the Mongoose does not.
How should this self-destruction description be handled?​

​

///// CT ADVENTURE 1 THE KINUNIR ////​

Capsules:​

The jump capsules on A Deck are intended for assault on a panetary surface as the ship maintains a high orbit for its own protection; the ship also provides fire support for'the capsules as they descend, and after the battle begins.

Each capsule weighs about 2 tons, and can carry one jump trooper. It is capable of limited maneuver as it descends; after making a relatively soft landing, it breaks open to release the individual inside, and self-destructs.

Capsules contains a large variety of electronic anti-detection equipment, and the chance that one will be detected while entering atmosphere is almost zero; if properly manipulated, the capsule cannot even be detected by its launching ship.

/////　Mongoose HIGH GUARD /////​

At TL14, high survivability capsules are available, an improvement on the assault capsule. They are heavily armoured and deploy six decoys as they plunge through the atmosphere. High survivability capsules consume 0.5 tons each and cost MCr0.1. They grant the occupant Armour 30 and inflict DM-4 on any Electronics (sensors) checks made to detect them, and DM-2 against any attack rolls.

 

[Spinward Flow]

How should this self-destruction description be handled?

The self-destruct feature is intended to be a "leave no traces" result of a stealthy/camouflaged insertion to a landing zone. It's also to prevent "enemy capture" of the high technology capsules by hostile (or other) forces. You don't want adversaries being able to take apart and reverse engineer your "nice toys" that enable tactical surprise at the infantry scale.

The best way to think about the jump capsules is that they are a "one way trip" infantry delivery vehicle which is intentionally designed for single use as a disposable asset. There is no "return to orbit" or any kind of "extraction" capability built into them after they deliver their infantry occupants.

It's kind of like how paratroopers need to gather up their parachutes after landing and bury them, so as to not betray their presence/infiltration to others in order to preserve the element of surprise for as long as possible. Like special forces operating behind enemy lines, you want to leave as little evidence behind of your existence as possible. Same idea with the jump capsules ... except that you're "jumping" out of a craft in orbit, rather than an aircraft in the atmosphere. It's a higher tech solution to the same basic problem.

So think of the jump capsules as being DISPOSABLE single use one way orbit to surface delivery vehicles, which must not fall into enemy hands ... hence, the self-destruct after delivery of payload (infantry, equipment, etc.).

 

[Rupert]

For the drop capsules to be doing stealthy re-entry they must be moving fairly slowly (no aero-braking), so a lot of that ECM will be to cloak what's presumably a one-use contragrav system that keeps speeds down enough that the capsule doesn't heat up too much and doesn't leave a great trail of glowing plasma behind it.

This also implies a fairly low relative velocity when launched, probably by having the launch system reduce the capsule's relatively velocity. But no stealth launches from a ship doing a high speed pass of the planet (well, the launch might be stealthy, but re-entry won't be).

 

[magmagmag]

Is it better for the capsule to explode after landing, or for the battle dress to detach from the capsule and explode during descent, or does the capsule even need to land properly in the first place?

 

[Rupert]

Is it better for the capsule to explode after landing, or for the battle dress to detach from the capsule and explode during descent, or does the capsule even need to land properly in the first place?

That would depend on the mission. For a really stealthy insertion you'd probably 'land' over water, have the capsule break up in the air (so the pieces hit water and sink, out of sight), and the trooper then flies using a grav-belt.

 

[mike wightman]

If the BD has a grav belt they don't need the drop capsule...

 

[McPerth]

They are heavily armoured and deploy six decoys as they plunge through the atmosphere.

The self-destruct feature is intended to be a "leave no traces" result of a stealthy/camouflaged insertion to a landing zone.

I find the idea of stealth not compatible with the one of the decoys... If you intend to be stealthy, you don't use decoys, as, even if they may misslead the enemy, they put him on guard, knowing something is happening, even if they are unsure about what it is.

If the BD has a grav belt they don't need the drop capsule...

Fully agreed.

In fact, as I have stated in other discussions, I see no place for the drop capsules as an assault method in a setting with gravitics, despite the various references to them in Traveller.

 

[whulorigan]

If the BD has a grav belt they don't need the drop capsule...

In fact, as I have stated in other discussions, I see no place for the drop capsules as an assault method in a setting with gravitics, despite the various references to them in Traveller.

I think the idea is the "Meteoric Assault"- High-speed reentry-velocity drop from orbit to the battlefield.
Can battledress/gravbelt safely handle the deceleration?

Or in T⁵ terms - can Battledress/Lift Belt (Contragrav Lifters w/ nominal lateral-velocity and hover motion) handle the deceleration?

 

[Condottiere]

I would think that you'd bounce once you hit a certain altitude, with an anti gravitational field.

In regard to a combat jump, unless it's stealthed, I would suppose you'd want to minimize that window of vulnerability to air defences.

 

[Spinward Flow]

I find the idea of stealth not compatible with the one of the decoys... If you intend to be stealthy, you don't use decoys, as, even if they may misslead the enemy, they put him on guard, knowing something is happening, even if they are unsure about what it is.

Consider the assumptions underlying your perspective here.

You're assuming that "decoys" means Bright Shiny LOOK AT MEEEEE!™ type of stuff ... ala "chaff & flares" intended to get a "bite" from a sensor system by being "sensor LOUD" ... thereby camouflaging/minimizing the sensor signature/importance of the Actual Target™ you're trying to protect.

But what if the decoys are of the QUIET™ variety ... which sounds counter-intuitive on its face.

The point being that rather than producing a "shower of loud" targets (pick the right one!) ... instead, there's a "shower of quiet" targets.

• If you CAN'T detect them in the first place ... mission accomplished.
• If you CAN detect them ... which one of the "stealthy" shower is the Right One™ to shoot at?

It's basically a "layer of uncertainty" added on top of the "stealthy" (actual) Jump Capsule. So even if opposing sensor systems are able to penetrate the signature reduction (EW, stealthy, etc. etc. etc.), there's still confusion about which "dim pixel" to shoot at ... which can be important if you can't blast them all at the same time (saturation overload).



So instead of thinking about the decoys in terms of "I'm over here! STUPID!" ... think about them in terms of sensor ghosts ... which can only appear "if you get lucky" (as an opposition sensor operator) ... and even then, which contact is the Real One™ and which ones are the Decoys?

That additional layer of "correct interpretation of information" can disrupt the OODA Loop (Observe, Orient, Decide, Act) long enough to be decisive in terms of timing, while also being deceptive about the numbers of hostiles inbound (assuming the tracking sensor net isn't faulty or improperly set up in the first place). The additional friction caused by the "extra numbers" creates its own set of complications, which act to protect the Jump Capsules (and their payloads) during descent.

 

[McPerth]

But what if the decoys are of the QUIET™ variety ... which sounds counter-intuitive on its face.

Even so, if you have 7 targets to detect (targets that, without gravitics, give a high IR image), you have nearly 7 times the probablility to detect at least one than if you have a single one...

Jump capsules are right in Heinlein's word, where there are no gravitics, but, IMHO, gravitics give you quite better options.

 

[bookwyrm]

Grav Belt - Traveller

wiki.travellerrpg.com

Will this grav belt get a soldier from orbit to surface before the belt runs out of power? What if it's using BD power for the descent, will it still make it in time? Or will it take too much time?

Or how about a compromise, a gravitic jump capsule.

@Spinward Flow good analysis. I've read of both being used in fiction. Sci-Fi and other genera.

 

[whulorigan]

Grav Belt - Traveller

wiki.travellerrpg.com

Will this grav belt get a soldier from orbit to surface before the belt runs out of power? What if it's using BD power for the descent, will it still make it in time? Or will it take too much time?

Well, getting to the surface quickly is always easy.
It's being able to slow your descent velocity in time to not make a crater that's hard . . .

 

[mike wightman]

"Grav Belt (TL12) Cr100,000, negligible weight if on; 10 kg if turned off. Personal anti-gravity transportation using a single null-gravity module and a personal harness. Performance is similar in speed and range to the air/raft."

So what are we told about speed and range for the air/raft:

"TL8 - An air/raft (grav belt) can cruise at 100 kph (but is extremely subject to wind effects), with some capability of higher speed to about 120 kph. An air/raft (grav belt) can reach orbit in several hours (number of hours equal to planetary size digit in the UPP"
that is speed and capability taken care of, if it can reach orbit it can descend from orbit.
How about duration?
"Range in time or distance on a world is effectively unlimited, requiring refueling from a ship's power plant every ten weeks or so."

So I don't think the TL12 has any difficulty in doing what the TL8 air/raft does for performance and duration.