Empty History

[ben51]

One of my biggest gripes with 2300AD has always been a lack of events between 2050 and 2250. Yes there are few wars and some random events relating to colonization, but even with the excuse of having the "French Peace" there seems to be little international activity. Were there no nations that rose and fell? No alliances? No pre-FTL Solar system conflicts? No really major border changes outside of Africa?

For my 2300AD game I made up several minor wars and made up an explanation for why the French Peace ended before the Alpha Centauri War and why early French FTL probes failed.

Most of this was just filler, and I understand that the original game had limited space for giving back-story but I often find the background to 2300AD a bit stagnant and boring.

Benjamin

 

[epicenter00]

That's because it should have been closer to 2100AD.

The explanation was that World War III was this terrible war where rebuilding took decades, and even after that, many nations took decades more to shake off the psychological effects of the Twilight War. I've never been entirely convinced of that, though. I suspect some GDW-ite wanted to push the date forward because they're either one of those "23" types or they didn't want it to seem that near-future. If you look at the technology for 2300AD, with the exception of Stutterwarp, it's always been closer to like 2100AD.

For a better explanation, I always look at this "great game" thing that GDW played amongst themselves which created the history for 2300AD. My suspicision is that the "great game" consisted of 10 or 15 year turns. That's only 20 or 30 turns from 2000 to 2300 which is enough to rough in a history, but you're going to have these long periods of little going on - and it's reflected in their history because if all of the players don't do anything for a turn, that's an entire decade where nothing at all happens. If you take two turns to build something then do something, that's 20 years where nothing happens. If you've ever played games like Civilization on the computer, you know what I mean. Games with history generated in such a way have that feeling of these nations run by these Immortal God-Emperors / World of Darkness Antedeluvians who can take these ridiculous long views, whereas in reality, most of us only live for a handful of decades, of which only 10-20 years of which can you really make a mark on the world before you're too old or just gathering your power. Most people in power want to make a mark during that time, something you don't see in these games, nor do you see the effects of short-lived but powerful social movements, particularly brilliant and charismatic individuals rising rapidly, or environmental disasters and so on bringing your "Immortal God-Emperors" down. You also have cases where certain players were obviously better than others (whomever played Japan was obviously not too bright, they allocated the factions in the United States way too much in the way of resources, and the French player was obviously the best player or the creator of the game).

 

[ben51]

I don't have too much problem with how the world turned out or the fact that technology is a lot less advanced than we assume it would be in 2300. There are a few changes I would make with regards to the geopolitical situation. Most notably in North America and Africa, especially when developed using Version 1 of Twilight: 2000 as a starting point, but these can be overlooked. I've often wondered if they didn't have an end point already sketched out with regards to the final setting of 2300AD. If they did than the whole thing would make a bit more sense.

As for the empty history part, I've always disliked when the canon purists get angry if a person tries to add a war or treaty or such even though the addition might help to better explain why something is the way it is in the actual setting.

So what have other people added to their 2300AD that isn't really canon but doesn't directly contradict canon?

Benjamin

 

[general_tiu]

Then what about the parts that are too silly or unrealistic? e.g. Japan annexing the Philippines.

 

[epicenter00]

Then what about the parts that are too silly or unrealistic? e.g. Japan annexing the Philippines.

Stuff that is far more strange will most likely happen in the next 300 years.

Stuff we can't even imagine.

Imagine if you hopped in a time-machine and went back to 1800 and asked some in France (or Germany) if they thought it'd be possible France and Germany would be on the best of terms as nations in the year 2000? They'd laugh in your face (and the French person would be like, "what Germany, it's a bunch of little tin-pot dictatorships!") and tell you about the mutual bad blood going back centuries and the wars they've fought.

Japan and the Phillipines does stretch believability in the eyes of a modern reader, though.

 

[Peter Schutze]

>Japan and the Phillipines does stretch believability in the eyes of a modern reader, though.

Only to some view points. Any sort of merger with China would provoke far more disbelief. Japan has a brief history of nasty occupation that is barely even known about by the under 30s.

Having spent a lot of time in the Philippines including in what some locals call little japan I can easily accept the peaceful absorbtion of the philippines as a (semi-autonomous) region of Japan.

BTW The Great Game was played in 5 year turns. I have a copy of the rules somewhere at home among the notes for a similar game I GM'd for a local group here in Oz. My version followed the 2300AD rules more closely than theirs did especially for colonial development

 

[seppun1]

Would you mind sharing how your great game went?

 

[Putraack]

The part I missed most in 2300's history was Central Europe. I was a die-hard Twilight:2000 player, and had gotten seriously interested in Polish history as a result of that (I was already into Russian/Soviet history). When 2300 came out, all there I could find was that Poland still existed. Which is probably plenty, really, given its earlier disappearance.

I suppose that they didn't want to start arguments among the T2k'ers about which faction would win out, based on individual campaign results, but I wanted to know who won!

 

[epicenter00]

The original (1st edition) Twilight War? I think the canon view of it was that everyone lost. The Twilight War didn't end because these various governments negotiated an end to it. The war ended because there weren't really any governments left to fight it. NATO forces were occupying "Poland" but that didn't mean they had "liberated" Germany. There were Pact forces in China, but that didn't mean they had conquered China, etc.

Even in the mideast, the NATO allies controlled much of the oilfields in that area (at least whichever of them were left), but there basically were very few ships left to transport the oil back.

 

[Peter Schutze]

Would you mind sharing how your great game went?

We started at 2050 with the discovery of the stutterwarp

most players had gone 4-5 systems out from Sol and started building their second colonies. The Australia player had gone 7 systems out and focussed more on outposts than a full fledged colony

On Earth with no Twilight war to rearrange things things were basically calm except for China and India making nuisances of themselves. Since the EU was still fairly loose back then we had Russia, France, Germany and the UK as players. By tacit agreement they were taking turns policing Crisises in Europe and the Middle East although France threatened to declare war on Germany when I sprang the breakup of Czechoslovakia on them. In the end Poland and Germany got 'control' over parts and the rest became a nation again under Russian policing

Australia was "gobbling up the islands" by signing treaties of statehood to build up its population pool. It also had a co-operation agreement with Japan that basically had Japan doing the tech side and Australia doing the space stuff for both of them. The plan was for them to unite if either player had to leave the game.

The turn we stopped playing, Canada was about to be torn apart with quebec independent, the west coast (near alaska) joining the USA and the rest petitioning the UK for readmittance under the crown.

The more I think about it the more I wish I could run another "great game"

 

[ben51]

Current politics aside, I would have liked to seen large portions of Canada unite in some way with the US. While the US was divided between three separate factions for the Great Game, Canada was just suddenly assumed to be united. This made no sense in the context of the history of the Twilight War. Making Quebec part of the French Empire would be a cool, albeit maybe not super plausible, idea. I really wish the writers of 2300AD had been a bit more bold in their vision of Earth in 2300. It just seemed to normal, for want of a better word.

Benjamin

 

[Peter Schutze]

>It just seemed to normal, for want of a better word

Conspiracy theories and other voodoo aside I think one of the big trends in the near future will be EU style confederations although not to the extent of the world being broken into just 2-3 blocs. Some smaller countries are already accepting that they can't function as viable nations with all the trappings.

Another thing I would dearly love to see (but dont expect to happen) is a redrawing of Africa's borders on more rational cultural or ethnic lines.

In the backstory for my next campaign both of these things happen to some extent before stutterwarp gets discovered .... there are only 138 recognised nations, counting the EU member as seperate countries (there are over 200 members of the UN) and the trend continues during the first decades afterwards

Some other countries also broke up and reformed into more rational and viable nations .... particularly indonesia, malaysia and the philippines (the big loser of the 3)

 

[Putraack]

The original (1st edition) Twilight War? I think the canon view of it was that everyone lost. The Twilight War didn't end because these various governments negotiated an end to it. The war ended because there weren't really any governments left to fight it. NATO forces were occupying "Poland" but that didn't mean they had "liberated" Germany.

Sorry, I guess I should have been more specific. There were a whole lot of modules set in Poland. There were several factions that could have become governments. After spending so much time as the GM, setting up their interactions for the PCs to oppose or support as they chose, I was very interested in who GDW "thought" would emerge as the government.

First or 2nd edition wouldn't matter, they both wound up their timelines with static, exhausted battle lines on or near the Oder River.

 

[epicenter00]

I was very interested in who GDW "thought" would emerge as the government.

Three hundred years is a very long time. The example I use the most often is that three hundred years ago, it was fashionable for men to wear tights out in public along with powdered wigs.

I think the view is that any of those governments that emerge on top have long since changed to follow the trends of the future. As Zamapoga exists as a force in the future, I generally imagine that it is a relatively progressive and reasonably prosperous government that comes to power in Poland with liberal views on contact with other nations. It's not some "hermit kingdom" like North Korea is today.

 

[seppun1]

Honestly, I have always considered the Twilight War an important part of 2300. Going from being knocked back into the dirt, barely surviving, to advancing high enough to traveling to the stars is important factor on the psyches and way of thinking to everyone on Earth. It taught everyone how to survive again. How to not give up and use what resources are available. I have a feeling that way of thinking that was passed down through the generations help many of the colonists on these new worlds. Not only to build a colony out of nothing, but to survive the horrors of the Kafer War.

I never did consider going from the Twilight War to 2300 had an empty history. The remnants fought of the remaining resources and rebuilt to 20th century levels and then went beyond so plenty happened.

It has made me curious though about the media of 2300, though. We know that in the 2320 book, it hints at the internet and a phone that awfully sounds like the iphone to me (or Droid, whichever you like better ) Does the media we have today (the music, the videogames) get pushed back until then because of the war? Does that mean that autotone has suddenly become popular on the music scene? That the console wars is going on strong with people playing multiplayer Modern Warfare 2 with not only people from all over the world but in orbit and the moon? I want you to think about that with this finale comment. Companies are working to put out 3D televisions now and 3D movies are becoming popular in theaters.

I will stop rambling now.

 

[kmsoice]

It has made me curious though about the media of 2300, though. We know that in the 2320 book, it hints at the internet and a phone that awfully sounds like the iphone to me (or Droid, whichever you like better ) Does the media we have today (the music, the videogames) get pushed back until then because of the war?

That has pretty much been my view yeah. I justify it with the explination that the Twilight War did happen before the internet/cell phone really took off and took hold of modern culture. Afterwards, it was the governments who painfully rebuilt the communications nets so that naturally included their own interface portals and content, and the governments have never really reliquished control since then. Because the idea of such a freedom of communcations had yet to really take hold before the war everyone was used to the lack of it afterwards and accepted it. So the 'Link' , as it is refered to in 2320AD, was never, or only very slowly, thrown open to the crazy inventiveness of the general public. Imagine if your internet was limited to just the the Yahoo! websites ... nice, useful, even fairly comprehensive ... but kinda limited and boring.

Of course the real reason is probably first that the 2300AD universe was written in the 80s, before anyone really understood the cultural tidalwave the whole internet&cell phone thing would be and second games would be a lot different if anyone from anywhere could look up a key fact or send out a warning. It just changes the game and the universe too much.