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Dyson Sphere and 100D Jump Limit

DaveChase

SOC-14 1K
If a system has a Dyson Sphere around the sun, would you use the Star's Jump Shadow/limit or the Sphere's 100D shadow/limit?

Or if a Planet has a Dyson Sphere around it would you use the planet's Jump Limit or the sphere's? (this is assuming that both are outside of the Star's Jump Shadow/limit.)

Dave Chase
 
If a system has a Dyson Sphere around the sun, would you use the Star's Jump Shadow/limit or the Sphere's 100D shadow/limit?
An example where going by tidal force would be so much easier.

Or if a Planet has a Dyson Sphere around it would you use the planet's Jump Limit or the sphere's? (this is assuming that both are outside of the Star's Jump Shadow/limit.)
My guess is that Dyson Spheres don't count "because they're hollow" (well, their density would be almost as low as empty space, right?)

If they do count, they'd be practically useless. OTOH, maybe it would be a narrative plus that it took a long time to come and go. I don't know.


Hans
 
As much as the scenario (1) fun wants me to say the characters will end up inside the sphere when they hit the solar 100d I think the (whatever - mass, density, gravity) of the shell itself will precipitate the ship before they enter it for different scenario (2).

Ah, but what would be the 100d point for that shell? How thick is the shell will answer that. If it's a shell thick enough to generate 1G natively then it'd be about a World Size 8, unless other steps are taken (3). A World Size 8 thick shell would also have 1G on the outside which would be interesting in itself. Not as useful as 0G though.

I'd probably go with World Size 0, jump precipitation outside the sphere, and make the approach dicey and exciting. As in if the players are approaching with a high delta-v (pretty much anything more than zero), the thing fills the whole sky when they drop out, there's no way to "miss" it and it looks like they may very well land quite hard. How hard will depend on how fast their incoming vector was... but some might find splatting the characters and ship evil ;)

(1) Where did the stars go? Where are we? No way to know unless they can get "outside" to get some bearings.

(2) WOW! Lookitthatthing! How do we get inside?

(3) For reasons of strength of materials and limits of raw materials (4) a thin shell will be likely so it could (should) be less than a World Size 8. I'd probably rate it a World Size 0 just for simplicity. BUT... you'll have to have artificial gravity then. The benefit of a Ring over a Sphere is you can use spin gravity so you don't need the extra mass or artificial gravity generators to create a decent gravity.

(4) I recall reading ages ago that a simple, very high tech (thin) and narrow Ringworld for a Sol type star would use the material resources (mining and processing ALL the planets) of more than a single Sol type system.
 
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I'd probably go with World Size 0, jump precipitation outside the sphere, and make the approach dicey and exciting. As in if the players are approaching with a high delta-v (pretty much anything more than zero), the thing fills the whole sky when they drop out, there's no way to "miss" it and it looks like they may very well land quite hard.

Sounds about right. However, a missing point. Why are the players jumping somewhere that doesn't have a star? :oo:
 
...a missing point. Why are the players jumping somewhere that doesn't have a star? :oo:

My scenario for "discovery" of a Dyson Sphere has always involved a misjump. I presumed the same was a given (bit of a presumptive leap though :) ).

It could also be (but we're talking needle in a very large haystack odds) the result of a deep space jump, like a J1 Free Trader carrying extra fuel, going through an empty hex, to get to a world 2 parsecs distant. Only they come out in that "empty" hex and it's not so empty after all.
 
My scenario for "discovery" of a Dyson Sphere has always involved a misjump. I presumed the same was a given (bit of a presumptive leap though :) ).

It could also be (but we're talking needle in a very large haystack odds) the result of a deep space jump, like a J1 Free Trader carrying extra fuel, going through an empty hex, to get to a world 2 parsecs distant. Only they come out in that "empty" hex and it's not so empty after all.

I understand now. However, given that there would be an IR signature the equivalent of a star but, without other EM tell tails, no one in their right mind would jump there without knowing that there is something SERIOUSLY amiss...
 
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...given that there would be an IR signature the equivalent of a star but, without other EM tell tails, no one in their right mind would jump there without knowing that there is something SERIOUSLY amiss...

Quite. And if it were anywhere in Charted Space it would certainly have been noted and investigated sometime over the thousands of years of space travel and exploration. So being an unknown would mean a big coverup by the government, or some kind of special effort on the parts of the builders to avoid detection. The first one makes for interesting fun to me (players stumble on secret, intrigue follows). The second feels a bit limited and difficult.

It might go unnoticed if far outside Charted Space with no nearby inhabited systems (and the players get there by a long misjump).
 
I think it's a matter of density. You can easily pass "through" the galaxy in normal space, and therefore also in jump space, as solid matter is widely dispersed. You can't so easily pass "through" the shell of a Dyson sphere in normal space, nor therefore jump space either, as it is a solid. So the sphere will precipitate you from jump space, just like you'd hit it in normal space.
 
You can't so easily pass "through" the shell of a Dyson sphere in normal space, nor therefore jump space either, as it is a solid. So the sphere will precipitate you from jump space, just like you'd hit it in normal space.

I don't know if that is actually true. When you plot a jump it doesn't say that there can be no intervening matter between your location and your destination.

Ie: if you are inside a solar system and were to draw a straight line to the star system you are jumping to and, there was a planet in the system you are in that was "in that line" there is no rule saying you can't make the jump
 
I don't know if that is actually true. When you plot a jump it doesn't say that there can be no intervening matter between your location and your destination.

Ie: if you are inside a solar system and were to draw a straight line to the star system you are jumping to and, there was a planet in the system you are in that was "in that line" there is no rule saying you can't make the jump

Actually there are rules that say if you plot such a jump you will come out when you hit the 100d mark of the body in the way, even if that is well short of your plotted destination. You still spend the full week in jump though. Effectively it is a misjump. And the implication is that ships themselves can block other ships from completing jumps if they interpose themselves between the jumping ship and the plotted destination.

This wouldn't work if the jump didn't correlate directly to normal space but the earliest clarification on this point is that it does. Jump doesn't work so much by folding space as it does by compressing it. And if that compression meets resistance in the form of significant mass (a solid) in the direct line between the two points in real space, it fails.
 
I don't know if that is actually true. When you plot a jump it doesn't say that there can be no intervening matter between your location and your destination.

Ie: if you are inside a solar system and were to draw a straight line to the star system you are jumping to and, there was a planet in the system you are in that was "in that line" there is no rule saying you can't make the jump
Yes, there is. Jump masking was introduced in GT, although Marc Miller has stated that he intended that to be the case right from the start. If your route intersects any jump limit, you're precipitated out there (at the end of the week in jump).


Hans
 
Yes, there is. Jump masking was introduced in GT, although Marc Miller has stated that he intended that to be the case right from the start. If your route intersects any jump limit, you're precipitated out there (at the end of the week in jump).


Hans

Really? Ew. Don' like it. NIMTU. ;)
 
You mean "galaxy". And if you aren't near the galaxy, then where ARE you?

Near a Dyson sphere. I think the thrust of the rules is that if you're near a significant gravity well, then it does funny things to your jump drive. Being near a significant portion of a thing like a Dyson sphere would probably also have some consequences.
 
Question:
Can't passive sensors from nearby systems detect the gravity pull of the enclosed star? Even if it is fully enclosed in a Dyson sphere, it's gravity should still affect other nearby systems and objects, though of course this may take some time to detect.

If this is the case, then any nearby society studying the orbits/gravitational effects of nearby stars should eventually discover 'discrepancies' in their observed data of other nearby stars.

Then of course there are those improved Imperial higher tech sensors. What would they reveal?

Would this be the case, or am I missing something here?
 
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