General Does a Detached Scout/Courier come stocked?

[Condottiere]

They forgot to add that to the customization options.

I'd penalize that with a greater fuel requirement, and a lowered misjump possibility, since filters wouldn't be able to deal with the fuel within the window that it's funnelled through the jump drive, at default.

But. a customized jump drive has a lowered chance of misjump, if not eliminated all together.

 

[Rupert]

My default assumption is that a Type S lent out to a detached duty scout will be very not-new, but still sound. It won't have specialist systems, like whatever normal sits in that empty space in the CT version of the Type S. It will generally have an Air/Raft, because one's listed as a standard piece of equipment. It's probably as old as the ship and twice as beat up. As I use TNE or GURPS this means high wear values (TNE) or low HT scores (GURPS).

However, while the ship might be complete and everything's working, and the spare parts bins supposedly filled and up to spec, there's a good chance that the parts don't all fit the ship, or there are three of one thing and none of another, and so on. The vacc suits are probably as old as the ship, and if you're lucky the only thing wrong with them is that they stink as soon as they're warmed by body heat, and nothing can get the smell out. But any real scout has their own custom suit anyway, right?

I would provide the Generate program if using CT in most cases - the Scouts want the ship to see use, and to fly to odd places and see interesting things, so not providing it would be counter-productive. It might require a little 'favour' to get it, though. Likewise, the ship would have one trip's worth of life support, and be just out of annual maintenance.

However, if there's reason to believe that the character didn't leave in the best odour (like getting snake-eyes on the re-enlistment roll), then things might not be so rosy - like having to buy life support supplies, for starters, or 'non-essential' systems not passing their inspections and thus being prone to breakdowns. All that good stuff.

 

[Spinward Flow]

My default assumption is that a Type S lent out to a detached duty scout will be very not-new, but still sound.

It's going to be a 40 year old starship, which got diverted into the Detached Duty stream ... rather than into the surplus market stream (which converts some, but not all, of the stock into Type-J Seekers for prospecting duties).

 

[JimCook]

Don't forget, the scout accepting the ship has to sign for it and it's contents. Anyone who has ever served in the military can tell you about trying to find / scrounge everything you signed for so you can turn it back in.

in fact this could be the start of an adventure as the scout tries to acquire some odd, rare piece of equipment that was supposed to be on the ship before it get turned over to the scout base for its annual inspection.

 

[Enoki]

The scout ship you get, in pictures:

You expected this:

You are handed this:

 

[Condottiere]

Complete with motorbike.

 

[Diveguy]

IMTU the IISS wants its DD scouts ready to take on assignments immediately, so the recipient of a type S is issued the following as standard:

• a TL 15 vacc suit, the standard IISS uniform as per Grand Survey but in oxide green instead of the horizon blue of active duty Scouts - DD Scouts are sometimes called "olives" or "greenies" by active duty Scouts
• a TL 15 personal communicator as per Grand Census
• an emergency vacc suit for each bunk in the type S (eight typically, assuming double occupancy)
• a standard survival kit for each bunk in the type S
• mechanical, electrical, and metal-working tool kits and a map box in the ship's locker
• a high-end 3D holographic entertainment system, standard on IISS ships for crew morale

A DD scout can request additional items at a Scout base or way station; if they can demonstrate a need and relevance to the service, it may be issued.

All ships IMTU are subject to the 77 Quirks rules; an IISS type S automatically has the bad air scrubber and premium entertainment system quirks. They may be armed and/or modified, as per "New Ideas for Old Ships" in Dragon 51 (July 81).

In my BeltStrike campaign, the DD Scout character's type S, the Kikarmur, came armed with a pulse laser, a stateroom converted to a break-bulk cargo hold to store supplies for long missions, fancy ergonomic bridge consoles and couches, and non-standard fuel scoops that increase the time for wilderness refueling by 50%.

Some of this obviously would tweak per setting/vibe - I do not typically like anything even close tL 15, but that's just me.

 

[Condottiere]

The problem with the canon scout/courier, is that it's a godawful compromise.

That may be too harsh, but it's basically legacy Alpha, Alpha, Alpha, Alpha ship components, to fit in that tight end.

Even now, smallest default jump drive, in minimum jumpable tonnage.

The ship's locker, for it's original function, should be the size of one of the staterooms.

Stuffed full of replacement parts and exploration gear.

 

[Spinward Flow]

The problem with the canon scout/courier, is that it's a godawful compromise.

That may be too harsh, but it's basically legacy Alpha, Alpha, Alpha, Alpha ship components, to fit in that tight end.

Even now, smallest default jump drive, in minimum jumpable tonnage.

I am trying to make a better one that can "do more things" ...

 

[Condottiere]

Aren't we all?

I had a look around, and noticed that mine have been overtaken by updates.

 

[Enoki]

Complete with motorbike.

You only get that if you complete 7 terms of service...

 

[Spinward Scout]

I am trying to make a better one that can "do more things" ...

An in-service Scout/Courier has better Sensors and a Communication room, if I remember right.

But there's not much else you can pack into a 100-ton jump-capable ship. I'd like a triple turret. Pulse Laser, Missiles, and Sandcaster. But the Computer doesn't allow it.

This is a video on YouTube about a guy in Hong Kong that has moveable rooms. I always thought the Scout/Courier could do something like that.

 

[Condottiere]

If, for that model, the quartermaster doesn't like you.

I checked it up, to be sure.

Scoutship is currently numbers six and seven on mustering out benefits, so you could get one for one term served.

 

[Spinward Flow]

I'd like a triple turret. Pulse Laser, Missiles, and Sandcaster. But the Computer doesn't allow it.

This is actually something of a sticking point, especially in LBB2 combat that relies on LBB2 computer programming rules.
The model/1bis is such a "minimalist" computer that it actually has trouble doing more than 1 thing at once!

Model/1bis = 4 CPU / 0 Storage (LBB2.81, p22)

• Standard Software Package = MCr1 of programs (LBB2.81, p41)
  • Maneuver (1 space, MCr0.1)
  • Jump-1 (1 space, MCr0.1)
  • Jump-2 (2 space, MCr0.3)
  • Navigation (1 space, MCr0.4)
  • Anti-Hijack (1 space, MCr0.1)
• 1+1+2+1+1 = 6 spaces of programs
• 0.1+0.1+0.3+0.4+0.1 = MCr1 for standard software package

I am personally convinced that this limitation on the programs available in the standard software package IS THE REASON why the stock Type-S Scout/Courier has NO WEAPONS installed in its turret.

Not only would the price of installing weapons increase the default construction cost (go figure ... ), but in addition you would need to allocate ADDITIONAL FUNDING to pay for the computer program(s) necessary(!) to make those weapons actually "actionable" in combat.

Bare minimum you would need to add the Target program (1 space, MCr1) ... just so the turret weapons can be used AT ALL.

If you're installing lasers (pulse or beam), that's the only computer program you "need" in order to be able to make the lasers attack other craft. But if you're wanting to install a missile launcher and/or a sandcaster, you ALSO NEED the Launch program (1 space, MCr2).

The point being that adding a single pulse laser into the (previously) empty turret of a stock Type-S Scout/Courier costs MCr1.5.
MCr0.5 for the (single) pulse laser ... and MCr1 for the Target program.

If you want to install a missile+sandcaster combo instead, that's going to cost you MCr4.
MCr0.75 for the missile launcher ... MCr0.25 for the sandcaster ... MCr1 for the Target program ... and MCr2 for the Launch program.



And then, even if you're able to afford either of those options, what can you actually *DO* with the 4 CPU / 0 Storage of a model/1bis computer as far as running computer programs in a combat situation? Because the model/1bis has NO STORAGE capacity, you can only run "4 spaces worth" of computer programs each turn ... and you can only "swap" programs around in the CPU at the end of your own turn (in the Computer Reprogramming Phase) in preparation for the NEXT turn. (LBB2.81, p31)

That means whatever programs you have "running" in the CPU at the start of your combat turn ... THAT'S IT. The bis computers do not have Storage, which means there is no "hot swapping" of which program(s) get to be running in CPU during each combat turn.

So if you want to be able to maneuver/accelerate during a combat turn ... you MUST be running the Maneuver program (1 space).
If you've got armament in a turret ... you MUST be running the Target program (1 space).
If your armament in your turret includes a missile launcher and/or a sandcaster ... you MUST ALSO be running the Launch program (1 space).
1+1+1 = 3 ... and you've only got 4 CPU to work with (and 0 Storage!) in a model/1bis computer.
That doesn't leave a whole lot of ... options ... for additional offense/defense oriented computer programs to be running, since 1-2 spaces is all of the CPU capacity remaining.



In other words, the "combat potential" of a stock Type-S Scout/Courier with a model/1bis computer is barely capable of engaging a zero delta-v target with a laser ... which is "good enough" for belter prospecting, but don't expect to be challenging any system defense (or ) with anything more than the space combat equivalent of a pop gun the shoots out a flag that reads *BANG!* on it.

Gets even worse in LBB5.80 combat, where installing a laser will reduce the stock Type-S Scout/Courier EP available for Agility, making the starship an easier target to shoot at!



Bottom line ... trying to "fight" a starship with a model/1bis computer is just BEGGING for misery.
The best thing you can do is RUN ... rather than Stand & Fight.
Although, if you're capable of Klingon Guile ... the element of surprise could potentially operate (enough) in your favor ...

 

[kilemall]

Computer resource is probably more an intended design aspect and not a driver of limits. Most every ship has no weapons even if they come with hardpoints. As I recall, only the Patrol and Corsair comes stock with a weapon, plus the fighter small craft.

I think it’s more like the entire ship is designed to be combat gimped with minimal computers in addition to being limited by the millions in programs and weapons. Getting armed is a major expense goal, part and parcel of the upgrade game. Cost sinks built in even by 1977+.

The main upgrade path is new computers, programs and weapons, after that the combat optimized ships will be custom built with full hardpoints, weapons, extra power plant for double fire or EP, and programs including double fire/return fire and predict/evade that corresponds to the model advantage/effective TL DM in HG.

 

[Spinward Flow]

Computer resource is probably more an intended design aspect and not a driver of limits.

It's both.
An intended design aspect ... AND ... a driver of limits.
This is not an "OR" ... it's an "AND" ... if you appreciate the distinction.

Most every ship has no weapons even if they come with hardpoints.

That was done to keep the construction prices DOWN (as low as possible) ... while also making any armament an "aftermarket add-on upgrade" rather than a standard feature that appears uniformly across all craft of the class. It leaves room for customization depending on a variety of factors (because Players "go for" that kind of thing, makes them feel "special" ).

I think it’s more like the entire ship is designed to be combat gimped with minimal computers in addition to being limited by the millions in programs and weapons. Getting armed is a major expense goal, part and parcel of the upgrade game.

All true ... particularly in the LBB1-3 realm, prior to LBB5.80.

The main upgrade path is new computers, programs and weapons, after that the combat optimized ships will be custom built with full hardpoints, weapons, extra power plant for double fire or EP, and programs including double fire/return fire and predict/evade

Well ... considering that TL=9 has a limit of computer model/3 ... that's a pretty SHORT upgrade path.
TL=A only gets you up to a computer model/4 ... which while it's an upgrade, it only goes but so far (and it's definitely NOT CHEAP on the MCr budget!).

All of which circles back to my personal assessment that at TL=9-A ... you're actually better off using a dedicated Fighter small craft for protection than trying to "up gun" a starship intended for commercial operations (at least, in the ACS tonnage range). Basically, to put it in business terms ... you want to OUTSOURCE your security to a trusted/hand in glove partner who can SPECIALIZE in that service ... rather than trying to do it all by yourself using a "less than ideal platform" as a starting point (and not be all that good/effective at it into the bargain).

Are a couple of turrets with weapons plus computer programs "cheaper" ...? Most likely yes.
Will they be "superior" to a dedicated (medium) Fighter small craft escort service ...? Probably not.
You'll be getting what you pay for ... and if what you're willing to pay for is "not much" ... don't be too surprised if you Get What You Paid For™.

 

[whartung]

This is a video on YouTube about a guy in Hong Kong that has moveable rooms.

So, how many dTons do you think that space is?

Mind, I don't think its viable for general passengers (I don't think it quite looks robust enough to handle rough handling). But for a personal space on a ship, it can work.

It seems to be, what, 10 foot ceilings? It's not 8. Maybe 10 feet wide of open space, plus another 4 feet (2 feet on each side wall). Actually, probably 6 feet. Seems like the "left"wall (going in) is probably 4 feet thick (the wall layer, and the movable layer).

25 feet long? 30?

So, going with 30x16x10 cu ft, I'm going to put that apartment at 9-10 dTons. 2 1/2 staterooms.

I don't think the design works well for common spaces as common spaces have competing needs when more than one person is in there.

But, still, a very cool layout.

 

[Black Vulmea]

. . . I do not typically like anything even close tL 15, but that's just me.

Why?