Defining the 990 borders for the Solomani and Hiver states in Spica sector

[Liam Devlin]

Casey--Good job!<Like the map overlay>
as for those that struck out and wound up in Spica--Hmmm. Or maybe they wound up being absorbed by the HF?, or deflected/ deterred away?

or..<ahem> Manipulated?

 

[far-trader]

I've uploaded my second doodling and musings, subsector M - Trillion (ss N - Tohira went up earlier), to the files section of the T20 yahoo group <http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Traveller_T20/>

It's in the Sector Maps folder, in it's own subfolder labled "Spica map suggestions", as simple fuzzy "print to pdf". Hey it's quick, easy, and small. As always it's just my own 2creds and open to tweaking. I can email it to anyone interested if they can't get access to the group.

 

[Malenfant]

I still haven't heard back from Hunter about setting up an area here to upload to. I suspect it's best to assume it won't be forthcoming...

The yahoo group has the same problem as the Baron's MSN group unfortunately - some people won't have Yahoo passwords and so won't be able to access the board.

 

[mike wightman]

I've just had a thought, it says in the Hiver reference material that they prefer certain types of planet and that their population usually stabalises at the hundreds of millions level. This implies no high population Hiver worlds, so the named high population worlds in Hiver Spica should have significant "alien" populations, some of which are probably human in origin also.

 

[Shadowdancer]

Originally posted by Casey:
Pretty much. There's some expansion on the Hiver side spinward/spwinward-core but not a lot. Of course it could just be the difference between two drawings.

This combined image may have the 1111 image a pixel or two to the left but it's as close as I can get:
Spica from around -2204 to 1111

Good work, Casey. The primary change to the Hiver border appears to be in subsector N. It looks like the Hivers moved their border spinward a parsec or three -- probably to seize control of some valuable systems as the Solomanis pushed into the sector.

There also was slight expansion in subsector K of about a parsec.

Hmmmm. Wonder what is in those systems to make them so valuable? Natural resources? Population or industrial resources? Crucial waypoints? Developing cultures? Ruin sites from previous civilizations? Nurtured 'sleep ship' colonies the Hivers found first?

 

[LcKedovan]

Originally posted by far-trader:
I've uploaded my second doodling and musings, subsector M - Trillion (ss N - Tohira went up earlier), to the files section of the T20 yahoo group <http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Traveller_T20/>

It's in the Sector Maps folder, in it's own subfolder labled "Spica map suggestions", as simple fuzzy "print to pdf". Hey it's quick, easy, and small. As always it's just my own 2creds and open to tweaking. I can email it to anyone interested if they can't get access to the group.

Hey Far trader, just took a quick look. Will download and get into it a bit more. Well done for a quick thing

Ummm one thing, I can only download sector N not M?


-W.

 

[LcKedovan]

Ok, checked out N. I think it is a good start, one question I had was about the Sol. border..has the border been shrunk yet as discussed or is that the 990 proposed border?

-W.

 

[clementk]

Sigg Oddra sent me a colorized version of the AotI Spica sector map which I shrunk down some (but it's still BIG). This jpeg file is over 3mb so please try to save it the first time and view locally. I may have to delete this from my webspace before long so get it ASAP.

AotI Spica Sector colorized by Sigg Oddra
[EDIT]Changed file name to something better.[/EDIT]

Casey

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by LcKedovan:
Ok, checked out N. I think it is a good start, one question I had was about the Sol. border..has the border been shrunk yet as discussed or is that the 990 proposed border?

-W.

It's my proposed 990 border. Not really shrunk back much in this ss. I figured there should be some point of contact, though once I did ss M it suggests a pull back into that ss. I just downloaded the AotI sector jpg (and saved it ), and shrunk it to a more managable (though less complete) size to compare to my files. At a glance it looks like the same system locations and allegiances as the map Berka pointed out earlier here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~ngc5139/FDA/spicahome.html

Hmm, I just downloaded the ss M file from the Yahoo group and it worked ok?

<edit>

er, what I mean is I have pulled back most of the border, more than the suggested 3 parsecs in fact, except where I left it coming to the Hive border

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Casey:
Sigg Oddra sent me a colorized version of the AotI Spica sector map which I shrunk down some (but it's still BIG). This jpeg file is over 3mb so please try to save it the first time and view locally. I may have to delete this from my webspace before long so get it ASAP.

AotI Spica Sector colorized by Sigg Oddra
[EDIT]Changed file name to something better.[/EDIT]

Casey

Yep, looks like the file Berka pointed to (noted in my post just above) though labled 1117 or something is the same as the one Sigg sent you.

So, since the border makes no sense with the allegiances listed as they are rather than the proposed change allergiances to suit the border, since we're talking changing the border anyway as well, why not stick with the allegiances as listed and make the border fit that? Just another way of looking at the problem. Or do we stick with the plan of changing both the (Solomani) border and any allegiances as needed?

 

[LcKedovan]

Originally posted by far-trader:
Hmm, I just downloaded the ss M file from the Yahoo group and it worked ok?

<edit>

er, what I mean is I have pulled back most of the border, more than the suggested 3 parsecs in fact, except where I left it coming to the Hive border

How Odd, maybe they had some issues as I was just able to get both fine.. Oh well, now I have them . Thanks!

I like the borders in this case, I think leaving an initial point of contact with the Hivers (They had met them by this point right?) in the bottom of the sector there works pretty cool.

I think it adds a bit to the potential tension in that sector as well.

Cheers, Will

 

[Flynn]

Another point to consider: Do we include a local "pocket empire" or two that are on the way to dying out, such that they do not appear in the CT Era maps?

I'd be interested in seeing some multiworld polities, but don't want to strain the disbelief of them not being present on the bigger map in the CT Era. I can see one or even two dying out (particularly if the two were engaged in a local war and destroyed one another in the mid 1000s.) More than that, though, and it's a bit too much.

Just some food for thought,
Flynn

 

[Malenfant]

Is there a possibility that the borders on the CT maps - especially for all those small pocket empires - might just have been drawn arbitrarily without any world locations or nearby political entities in mind?

Is there a reason why, given a clump of worlds, they shouldn't form a larger political unit? Maybe a lot of them are low tech or uninhabited?

 

[far-trader]

I'd say it's almost certain that the borders on the "big maps" (i.e. charted space size) are just rough approximations. I'm basing this on the facts that the allegiances don't seem to follow the border for Spica, and looking at the border in the Sector map for Solomani sector, comapared to the "big map" the two are off by a few parsecs in places.

So I think we can take the "big map" border with a grain of salt and couple parsecs one way or the other as needed. Perhaps fitting it to as many (or all) of the listed allegiances as possible. I'll tackle this tonight.

As to the earlier mention of the problem accessing yahoo groups, I understand, it's just that lacking anywhere else that's about all I have right now. Maybe I'll toss up a throw-away yahoo site to upload to if I can find time.

 

[Gruffty]

The big maps are a blunt instrument issue - i.e. they're not really accurate and representative of actual borders, more like arbitary state edges. This is why defining the borders on our proposed 990s map is so important. The borders affect so much else within the sector that it's a priority for us to get it sorted properly.

 

[Gruffty]

The CSSP Plan has been updated to reflect recent discussions (see the second post of the CSSP Plan thread).

 

[far-trader]

OK, I've dumped the little work I did on ss N and ss M (posted to T20 yahoo group earlier), in favor of a more logical (?) approach.

I've posted (to T20 yahoo group, Files, Sector Maps folder, subfolder Spica map suggestions) a pdf blending the allegiances and positions of the systems with the dual borders. This is only a starting point to work from (and rough at that). Unfortunately I can't get back to this till Sunday evening earliest as I'm having guests. If anyone wants to post it somewhere more accessible please do, or drop me a PM (my PM box may overflow) if you want it by email (some 41k .pdf). General comments here of course.

The map shows Hiver allied systems in blue, Solomani allied systems in yellow, and non-aligned systems in green. The grey systems are FDA posts (Hf/Xh) (by the way, probably not the place to ask but can someone PM or post me a brief on what FDA posts are, please

)

Sector capitals are the larger red crosses on systems (guessed at some allegiances) while the smaller red crosses on systems are subsector (?) capitals. I'd apprecitate a check by fresh eyes but I think it's all good.

Spica, the star, is the smallish red circle. And I'm curious why it bears special mention, again a brief primer please. Gee you scan a sector once years ago and miss so much

 

[LcKedovan]

Originally posted by far-trader:
OK, I've dumped the little work I did on ss N and ss M (posted to T20 yahoo group earlier), in favor of a more logical (?) approach.

Oh SUUUUURE, I finally get everything downloaded, go out drinking, and the next morning you scrap it all! HRMMMPPPHHHH

-W.

 

[Malenfant]

I don't have a scanner unfortunately, but there's a map broken down by subsector of the Spica sector on page 18 of the GT Alien Races 3 book. I presume that's the border in the GT 1120 era though, so I dunno how useful it is.

It shows the Sollie and Hiver border is in direct contact in subsector N only, and then it diverges to coreward. The Sollie border passes through subsectors A, E, F, J and N. (the Sollies occupy the spinward 1/4 or so of N).

The Hivers have the trailing 3/4s of subsector N, the border goes from N to the rimward/trailing corner of J, passes into K, and follows the border between H and L.

 

[mike wightman]

That's the same border as shown in AotI, CT Alien Module 7, and DGP's Solomani and Aslan