defelination of the Aslan

[Gallowglacht]

There are one or two in my gaming group, who arn't mad on some of the Traveller Aliens. Hivers are great, other humans and K'Kree fine but the problem lies with Aslan and Vargr. The problem of course being that they look like cats and dogs. Ancient uplifted animals from Earth are borderline but independently evolving to look like that is right out.

Of course the player mixes them up and complaines about the Vargr the more reasonable of the two. I have the sneaking suspicion that this is due to a secret desire for sexy-manga-catgirls to be real.

I have tried explaining that they are just a nod to the Kzinti, not a big deal. No joy. Theory of covergent evolution? nope. OK, they are purple, half bald and lay eggs? Still not happy (possably as this explaination removes a requirement for the whole sexy-catgirl image).

So any suggestions for explainations for the way they are or minor, new BSG style re-imaginings of the Aslan? Or should I just go screw you Donnacha, they are what they are but hey at least you get cat-girls. Thing is, I'd like to try something as deep down there part of me that agrees (shhhh, dont tell him that).

I went with the screw you approach for the Vargr. I like doggies. But have changed Ithiklur to Kafers(2320AD) as a more alien twist and this went down very well.

 

[ChalkLine]

I can't see any problem with mixed-gene building humanoids from terran mammals, but I think it's something that a decadent 2nd Imperium may have done and not need an alien race of Kzinti. Someone's mentioned there's always some cat-race that follows a form of bushido!

The trouble with Aslan is the real difficulty of making a decent alien race. It has to be aggressive, expansionistic and possessive to fit in with the Aslan back story; but that just sounds suspiciously like humans. Kafers as written are particulary useless 'bad guys', but that's for a thread in a different forum!

We seem to get locked into terran style analogs when making aliens, even Hivers are called 'modified starfish'. I'd be interested in coming up with a really unique Aslan replacement.

 

[Gallowglacht]

Actualy IMTU the Kafers would be good guys. The Ithiklur are the Hiver bodyguards who you see a lot of in a Reformation Coalition campaign. I keep the Ithiklur name, change the description from a generic big blue Klingon/lizard to a Kafer and the Ithiklur not only look like they are stupid outside of combat, but most actually are. (plus I can slowly reveal the manipulations done to them by Hivers instead of Pentapods).

Generaly the naming of Aliens after animals I'm fine with. Seems like a human thing to do. I just wish the connection was a little less literal in some cases. Centaur for K'Kree is fine as long as the creature has 2 arms and for legs. It just better not have a head like a horse, hoves and a mane.

 

[kafka47]

I kinda like how DGP approached the whole thing. They made Blair Reynolds draw the Aslan as having the whole pantheon from the feline family. So, one has Tiger Aslan, Leopard Aslan, Panther Aslan, etc. Throwing a few feral Aslan that maybe devolved Aslan might be the way to go.

In terms of making them more Alien, well, maybe check out some of the L5R or Qin books to get a sense of feudal Asia then use the Cthulhu product - Secrets of Japan to reflect how much of the past filters into a postmodern Japan.

But, heck, even remove the Aslan altogether, in that these cat creatures are merely the servant race of a stranger creature that rules the Aslan worlds - here feel free to borrow from Japanese mythology or maybe sometime after the Pathfinder crashed, a large group of Solomani humans infiltrated Kusyu and they are the secret masters of the Aslan and evolved (culturally) quite differently than mainstream human culture due to their isolationism.

 

[Plankowner]

CJ Cherryh's Chanur books are a good source of information on how you might run an Aslan. The males are big, but unstable and the females are the brains. I always use Cherryh for inspiration.

If you want something that is still in print, try her latest series (up to 9 books now). Her Atevi would make good Aslan as well. They have a pack instinct called manchi that replaces Like and Love in humans. Might work for you.

 

[pendragonman]

I kinda like how DGP approached the whole thing. They made Blair Reynolds draw the Aslan as having the whole pantheon from the feline family. So, one has Tiger Aslan, Leopard Aslan, Panther Aslan, etc. Throwing a few feral Aslan that maybe devolved Aslan might be the way to go.

In terms of making them more Alien, well, maybe check out some of the L5R or Qin books to get a sense of feudal Asia then use the Cthulhu product - Secrets of Japan to reflect how much of the past filters into a postmodern Japan.

But, heck, even remove the Aslan altogether, in that these cat creatures are merely the servant race of a stranger creature that rules the Aslan worlds - here feel free to borrow from Japanese mythology or maybe sometime after the Pathfinder crashed, a large group of Solomani humans infiltrated Kusyu and they are the secret masters of the Aslan and evolved (culturally) quite differently than mainstream human culture due to their isolationism.

I wholeheartedly agree here. The cat races should really have an Asian flavor. In fact, you could go as far as Feudal India (think Rakshasa from AD&D) for another back story.

Further, if you gin up a Vagr background similar to either Ancient Rome (for a more wolf-like Vargr) or Balkanized Germany you get an interesting history for them also.

 

[Gallowglacht]

It's not their flavour thats the problem, but the physical look/description. Basically I'm looking for a good description that makes them less cat like in looks but still enough for the Aslan nickname to make sense. Non Mamilian births/life cycles etc, anything to help my players suspension of disbelief.


Now, I might just say screw it, its an accident of convergent evolution and move on. But I'll stick to Lion Aslan if I do. Making them look like more Earth cats may get me lynched. I always got a very Japanesse feel from the Aslan aswell and I do have the L5R books. I'll probably add in Indic (Rakshasas) and Egyptian (Basti) influences to mix it up a bit and add some cunning slyness and gambling adiction from the Rakshasa, some Basti decadence and Sehkmeti destructiveness to the mix.

The influence of some pathfinder descendants I like. 29 self-deluded pharonic humans playing byzantine games with a race of warrior servants. But this reduces their independant importance as a race. Why would they be on Droyne coyns?
Just thinking out loud.

Not originaly what I was looking for, but I'll take cool ideas/images anywhere I can get them. Thanks guys. Got some thinking to do....


EDIT; then again maybe not. Surely basing their culture on Earth cultures with cats only makes the situation worse. But keep the opinion's coming. Even ones I disagree with help me think...

 

[flykiller]

Basically I'm looking for a good description that makes them less cat like in looks but still enough for the Aslan nickname to make sense.

you could turn the whole thing on its head. aslan aren't cat-like, rather aslan and cats are related. just a thought.

 

[Gallowglacht]

Could, but the immediate disadvantage is the player already has a problem with them looking alike. He doesn't belive it possable for evolution to work like that. Imagine the reaction if I told him they share DNA with cats?

 

[Klaus]

Look, the Aslan are not feline. They are named Aslan because the first human contacteers lacked imagination and just looked at the manes.

The rest is unimaginative art. IMHO Aslan look more like primates. Something like the Yazirian of Star Frontiers, or maybe a baboon.

As for Vargr, nothing wrong with canine uplift, but can we ditch the dog in a dress look? It's patently ridiculous. For a start, they couldn't talk, with nose/muzzles that long. Short muzzled and furry, with more of Andromeda's Nightsiders than Rex in the kennel, they would be nowhere near as stupid.

It pains me that Traveller has this annoying legacy because MWM et al couldn't be bothered thinking up decent names and that the early artists took everything so literally.

 

[Jame]

As far as I'm concerned, "Aslan" and "Vargr" are at least somewhat original, because they're not English.

Though I do see your point, Klaus - they're just fancy names for "cat" and "dog."

 

[flykiller]

Imagine the reaction if I told him they share DNA with cats?

and if they did? I don't mean they evolved the same, I mean they are the same, as related as solomani and vilani are, or if you like as related as solomani and apes are. just thought it would make a nice bit of background material, if you thought it was worth the work to fit it into your world.

Could, but the immediate disadvantage is the player already has a problem with them looking alike.

well if a picture is the problem then get rid of the picture. aslan are depicted as everything from humans in suits to howler monkeys with claws, you have your choice. or you can make your own - bryan gibson right here on these boards could draw up an aslan to your specifications. or you can ditch all of them and go with a strictly verbal description, letting your player do all the visualization himself to his own specifications (my personal preference). and considering the full range of human appearance, who says aslan all look alike anyway?

maybe some aslan find terran felines exotic and seek to physically emulate them. stranger things have happened.

never understood this hang up on cats anyway. from the beginning ct said aslan only at first glance looked vaguely like cats, but were arboreal. near as I can figure everyone read the word "cat" and stopped there.

 

[pendragonman]

The real question that comes to mind is does that player belive in evolution, or is that player an intelligent design follower?

If the player is an evolution follower, it is easy to trace the unlikely evolution of humans from primate bases, and early primates did not walk on two legs. Why would they then not be able to follow a similar evolution path for Aslans? Modern Aslans look as close to modern felines as humans do to modern primates. There are similarities, sure, but which one has less fur? Thus, your Modern Aslan can be said to not be a fur-laden bipedal tiger but a member of Humaniti with overtones of feliniti (eyes, ears, the dew claw, a tail perhaps).

And if the player is a follower of intelligent design it is even more easy. Use "Because God said so".

 

[Droyne668]

I tend toward the "Yeah, well, y'know, it's Space Opera, not Hard Sci-Fi." If someone wants hard sci-fi RPG, there's Orion's Arm or 2300AD (or 2320AD or whatever its called these days).

But, okay, the Vargr are canines uplifted by the Ancients.

The Aslan could just as easily be felines uplifted by the Ancients.

Or not. Humanoid aliens aren't particularly likely in terms of evolution (for example, how many times has the humanoid form evolved on Earth? Once. On the other hand, eyes and flight have evolved independently several times).

But Traveller is space opera. Humanoid aliens are part and parcel of space opera. That includes Aslan, Vargr, Droyne, Bwaps, Wookies, Ewoks and pretty much 99.9% of all other sci-fi species that are really just Terran species with a funny mask or suit (Hivers are just starfish, K'kree just fancy horses).

So what was my point? Oh, yeah: humanoid aliens are an intergral part of the space opera genre.

 

[kafka47]

Yes, Traveller is Space Opera and the major races show it. However, nothing stops you from populating your worlds with the minor races which can be alien (read: Hard SF) or as Space Opera (read: AD&D in Space) as you want them to be. Just accept that the central place of the major race, develop a history of interactions and go with it.

So, in short, as it has now been mentioned times, don't get hung up by the feline thing...if players say: "Kewl, Samurai Ninja Cats in Space..."

Your response must be: "You might think that but I could not possibly comment."

 

[Gallowglacht]

Well, nothing stops me from changing a major race or the feel to harder sci-fi either. But keeping them as is has merits. The history and feel work better with things left as they are.
It is not vital to the game that I change anything, and as I said I may well end up taking the "screw you, Donnacha" aproach. However, all else being equal I'd like to at least try to do something to help the players suspension of disbelief.


@pendragonman

Evolution. Inteligent design really doesn't have a big following here.
Modern Aslan look as much like cats as Humans look like other primates, fair enough, but the Aslan evolved of Kusyu, not Earth, the shouldn't look like cats at all.

But this is closest to the best bet. Convergent evolution happens and as long as they are the only Major race to look like a human pet we should be OK. An Ictyosaur looks a bit dolphin like, as do sharks and there were a few unrelated Sabre-tooth species.

@Droyne668

The Humanoid part is fine. Although rare on Earth it is at least a good design for tool using species. The ones most likely to get into space. That the players can buy. Its the cat thing.
But like I said, not a huge deal. Just an all-else-equal thing.
The its just a game aproach can work.

@Flykiller

Yup the art is the big thing. Does anyone have a link to a good picture that isnt overly Lion-like.
Actualy you reminded me. Years ago my cousin did some art for me reimagining the Traveller races for our group. The K'kree one was outstanding. I wonder if I can find it again. The Aslan one was less lion-like.

 

[Droyne668]

Does anyone have a link to a good picture that isnt overly Lion-like.

The cover of DGP Solomani and Aslan was good and didn't look terribly lion-like to me.
http://traveller.wikia.com/wiki/Image:SolomaniAslan_200.jpg

Might be a good start.

Best,
Will

 

[aramis]

G:

The "Cat-form" has evolved in mammals at least twice that I can think of while bleary on a saturday morn. Mircats are not felines of any kind, but are very cat-like. Ferrets and weasels can be very catlike. Civets are often described as cat-like.

It is likely that there will be xenofelines of some form... given enough worlds... And, after all, what is "Feline" when stripped of genetic descent? Fur, large canines, sharp hearing, rasping tongues, balancing tails, retractable claws, litters of kittens, pouncers, 8 teats.

For me, the Cat-like nature is fun; the additions of the false penis for females, the 4 digit paws with the thumb being central on the palm, and female manes make them plenty physically alien for me.

They are just alien enough to play and not so "totally out there" as to preclude them being PC's nor working with humans.

 

[Gallowglacht]

@Droyne thanks, that is quite a good picture for what I want.

@aramis; yeah the convergent evolution line was pretty much what I was going to take. I think I'll change things a tiny bit. I'll drop the teats and say they feed their young by regurgitation, rather than the signiture of mammals.

 

[aramis]

We see teats in AM1. they are xeno-mammals.