Has anyone ever thought much about starting a Twilight 2000 scenario before August 2000? When did the War start? Was it 1995? When did it go nuclear, 1997? Wouldn't it be interesting to have the PCs around during those times. What if they have to evacuate their homes and have 30 minutes to get to a safe distance before the warheads reach their targets, could that be an adventure, perhaps it could be preceded by the time the PCs spend in boot camp.
Day One
- Thread starter TKalbfus
- Start date
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Lo Tom Kalbfus,
Nice idea, unfortunately the evac time in the 1990s was no longer 30 minutes from time of launch to target. Submarine launched missiles cut down the time considerably.
Tom Rux
Nice idea, unfortunately the evac time in the 1990s was no longer 30 minutes from time of launch to target. Submarine launched missiles cut down the time considerably.
Tom Rux
The Soviets never had much of a Navy though. The first two years of the Twilight War were non-nuclear. That means there would be engagements between Aircraft carriers, of which the Soviets had a few. Destroyers would engage other destroyers and Submarines. I believe the first couple years would have proven decisive with the Uniter States Navy winning the Battle of the Seas. Neither side really wanted to go nuclear. If the Soviets wanted to use their nuclear missile subs, they would have had to use them early in the War before American Destroyers and attack subs had a chance to sink them all. Two years into the war, the Soviets would probably have few missile subs left. Most of the missiles would likely be launched from land. The Soviet Air Force would do poorly against the USAF as well, this fact is borne out by the recent small wars in the Persian Gulf and in Serbia. The Soviet's main strength was in its Army. The Soviet Army outnumbered NATO forces 3 to 1. My guess is the Soviets started using nuclear weapons when it became clear that they were losing the conventional war. The US Air Force would have given the Soviet Red Army a pounding. The Smart weapons program would likely have been accelerated during the confrontation leading up to the conflict and during the War's first two years. What they might have had technology-wise in 1997 might have been similar to what the US Air force has today. Using World War II as a guide, I'd say that 80% of Federal government expenditures would have been for military spending. the Pentagon's budget might have been something like $2 Trillion per year. That's an awful lot of money. Much of that money channeled toward research and development would have been waisted, but its a fair bet that much of that money would have acheived results that were ahead of its time. the technology of today, 2003 in our world might have been the technology available in 1997 in the Twilight 2000 timeline. I think SDI would have been continued throughout the 1990s instead of canceled due to the rising tensions. The US Air Force might have build a series of huge Saturn V Class rockets for lifting chemical powered lasers into low Earth Orbit. Perhaps a few prototypes of Edward Teller's prototype nuclear bomb pumped x-ray lasers would have been tested. Money would have been no object and even Environmental restrictions waived. I think there would have been some kind of antimissile system in place by the time World War III went nuclear, it wouldn't be perfect of course and the Soviets had alot of missiles and some would no doubt get through. Their might even be secret weapons labs that haven't been destroyed by the time the dust settles. One idea would be to have a huge Orion launcher still hidden in a secret underground base for the PCs to find. the Orion spaceship is a rocket propelled by small atomic bombs, it could carry 100 men to Mars for example, its military purpose would be more sinister however. the payload of an Orion spaceship would be a giant thermonuclear bomb, if exploded from orbit, it could devastate a much larger region of the Earth's surface than it could from the ground. The Hydrogen bomb would be so heavy, that only a spaceship propelled by smaller atomic bombs could propell it into orbit. In short this is a doomsday weapon that would make all the other weapons in the US/Soviet arsenal look like fire crackers, of course it never had a chance to be used before the nuclear war overtook it, but it survived the exchange and still lies in its silo waiting. I'm sure a clevel GM could find a dramatic use for such a thing.
In terms of convential military forces the best time for parity between US and USSR ground forces was in the period between 1972 and 1978. The technologies of the ground forces was almost equal.
The USSR was at their height of military power in ground forces. The USSR was not bankrupt so their training was up to date. The Warsaw Pact still had stable pro-Soviet government. The East German forces were their best followed by the Poles. The Warsaw Pact had technologic parity with the west and much greater numbers.
Nazi Germany started WW2 with about 30 long range subs and nearly starved England out of the war. The USSR expected to have about 200 Nuc subs and other couple hundred deisel subs at the start of the war.
The US military was still demoralized about Vietnam. Manpower was in short supply. For example, when tank bns went to qualify at Graf they only had 1 or 2 qualified tank soldiers per tank. The rest were taken form the HHC or the CSC.
No matter what your MOS was you were put on a tank. Every officer was given a TC position on tank and expected to qualified his tank or he could kiss his career goodby. Our Mortar PLT Leader caught hell. I understand every combat unit had these types of shortages. Our new Division Commander circulated a private memo though to all the tank units that they could call their BNs qualified if all their support people had to be used on the tanks and not doing their jobs. The General was relieved within 2 days for telling the truth.
The US Army would have been defeated in a war with the USSR during the seventies.
I would right more examples but I have to get back to work. More on this subject later.
The USSR was at their height of military power in ground forces. The USSR was not bankrupt so their training was up to date. The Warsaw Pact still had stable pro-Soviet government. The East German forces were their best followed by the Poles. The Warsaw Pact had technologic parity with the west and much greater numbers.
Nazi Germany started WW2 with about 30 long range subs and nearly starved England out of the war. The USSR expected to have about 200 Nuc subs and other couple hundred deisel subs at the start of the war.
The US military was still demoralized about Vietnam. Manpower was in short supply. For example, when tank bns went to qualify at Graf they only had 1 or 2 qualified tank soldiers per tank. The rest were taken form the HHC or the CSC.
No matter what your MOS was you were put on a tank. Every officer was given a TC position on tank and expected to qualified his tank or he could kiss his career goodby. Our Mortar PLT Leader caught hell. I understand every combat unit had these types of shortages. Our new Division Commander circulated a private memo though to all the tank units that they could call their BNs qualified if all their support people had to be used on the tanks and not doing their jobs. The General was relieved within 2 days for telling the truth.
The US Army would have been defeated in a war with the USSR during the seventies.
I would right more examples but I have to get back to work. More on this subject later.
Antares Administration
SOC-12
As long as the Apes don't get a hold of it, we're OK!
Paul Nemeth
AA
In addition to his mono-bloc ramblings regarding the USSR's 'lack' of a navy and the size of the USA's WW2 defense budget, Tom Kalbfus also wrote:
"... the Orion spaceship is a rocket propelled by small atomic bombs,..."
Gentlemen,
Here's a philosophical ponderer in a similar vein to the sound produced when an unobserved tree falls in a forest;
Can a post truly be considered Kalbfusian if it contains no mention of the Orion nuclear pulse drive?
Talk about an 'idee fixe', sheesh!
Sincerely,
Larsen
"... the Orion spaceship is a rocket propelled by small atomic bombs,..."
Gentlemen,
Here's a philosophical ponderer in a similar vein to the sound produced when an unobserved tree falls in a forest;
Can a post truly be considered Kalbfusian if it contains no mention of the Orion nuclear pulse drive?
Talk about an 'idee fixe', sheesh!
Sincerely,
Larsen
Yes, if you want a Red Dawn type scenario, setting it ca 1972-80 is most plausible. Although apparently the USSR nearly started a nuclear war in 1983 (thinking Reagan was about to attack them).
Scenarios which postulate a NATO-style 'graduated response' from the USSR (eg taking years to go nuclear) are highly implausible. Everything I've read from the Soviet side (eg Victor Sukharov's 'Inside the Soviet Army') indicates that a massive overwhelming nuclear attack was the USSR's _first_ and pretty well only planned response to war with USA/NATO, not a last resort. Their military was built for massive offense, not defense or flexibility, and they were well aware of the 'first mover advantage'.
BTW I disagree that poor performance of Russian export-model MIGs and tanks in the '90s etc is a good guide to Soviet battle power, they had different and much superior versions of the export models for their own armies.
Ahhh, Red Dawn: what a terrible (and fun) movie. Some interesting resources for a T2K occupied North America campaign are West End Games' "Price of Freedom," Fantasy Games Unlimited's "Flight of the Phoenix," and Tri-Tac's wonderful little para-universe for Fringeworthy, "Invasion U.S."
WEG's product seemed to be the best supported and had at least on module in the line: "Your Own Private Idaho." It tended to be very here-and-now with a strong emphasis on guerilla campaigns. FGU took a weird but fun approach with Phoenix: character generation is a total screw-job intended to keep the players in the dark about the game. They generate astronauts belonging to a fledgling USSCOM anti-terrorist/s&r unit, only to fall victim on a mission to a spatio-temporal phenomenon (gotta' love it.) They find themselves about 100 years in the future and discover that a wasting war of attrition has seen the Reds conquer the U.S. but has knocked the world back to 50's level of technology for the most part. Like everything they did, Tri-Tac's "Invasion U.S." was a gem. I especially loved the painstaking bribery and interrogation charts.
WEG's product seemed to be the best supported and had at least on module in the line: "Your Own Private Idaho." It tended to be very here-and-now with a strong emphasis on guerilla campaigns. FGU took a weird but fun approach with Phoenix: character generation is a total screw-job intended to keep the players in the dark about the game. They generate astronauts belonging to a fledgling USSCOM anti-terrorist/s&r unit, only to fall victim on a mission to a spatio-temporal phenomenon (gotta' love it.) They find themselves about 100 years in the future and discover that a wasting war of attrition has seen the Reds conquer the U.S. but has knocked the world back to 50's level of technology for the most part. Like everything they did, Tri-Tac's "Invasion U.S." was a gem. I especially loved the painstaking bribery and interrogation charts.
