CT+ Ships

[Silverhawk]

Another constraint on TL-15 is that it could be restricted cutting-edge military technology. Yes, a big universe provides lots of potential for parallel development or leaks, but it's one narrative method to keep a lid on high-TL dominance in everything.

Thus Service Life Extensions (SLEs) which might mean that that old cruiser could be packing a lot more than it originally did.

"Sir, we believe that after the refit of the TL 13 Class B Cruisers with TL 15 power plants and some minor interior restructuring that we could hav enough available space to increase their missile magazine capacity by some 15%."

So how would one know until you get into a protracted exchange where they keep firing after they should be empty.

 

[mike wightman]

You need to go back to canon sources rather than trust the wiki.

The first major lmperial establishment in the Spinward Marches was at Mora,
settled in 60, financed by Ling-Standard Products, and soon a thriving trade center,
building new ships, overhauling old ones, and producing other manufactured goods
on the side. Mora was the gateway to the Marches

Early on, the coreward branch reached Regina, and that system was settled by 75 (only fifteen years after the first
Imperial settlements in the Marches). Regina's dominion grew over several worlds, and it soon became a common destination for traders. By 250, Regina had been incorporated into the lmperium along with six neighboring worlds. By 300, the number of Imperial worlds in the cluster had grown to 17. Naturally, the branch leading to Regina became well-travelled; settlement soon followed

The cluster by the way are the worlds in and around Regina, similar settlement patters can be seen from the maps in Library Data N-Z the first of which is dated 300, fully 100 years before the wiki date you sited - like I said do not trust the wiki, go back to original sources.

Also those four TL15 worlds are all high population with tens of billions of inhabitants each- dwarfing the productivity of other worlds within the Marches by a couple of orders of magnitude. Shipping goods from those worlds cost you all of 1000CR per jump, and since megacorp traders move at jump 4 that is not much of a surcharge for your TL15 goods as they move through the Marches.

 

[whartung]

2 it has actually been settled for over a thousand years

This is the crux of it, frankly. Always has been. TL-15 is not "new" by any stretch.

 

[whartung]

Another constraint on TL-15 is that it could be restricted cutting-edge military technology.

That's all well and good. But if that were the case, where's the glut of TL-14?

 

[Spinward Flow]

TL-15 is not "new" by any stretch.

The OTU timeline puts IY 1000 as the point at which TL=15 effectively "emerged" within the Third Imperium, so by 1105 the TL=15 production and trade networks within the Marches would only be ~100 years old. Sure, that's plenty of time for those supply chains to get set up and settle into becoming routine ... but still ... the Fourth Frontier War was 1082-1084 (mainly in the Jewell and Regina subsectors), a mere 20 years prior to 1105.

But if that were the case, where's the glut of TL-14?

Actually, there's something of a glut in TL=13 goods from Efate (General Products, among others), Lunion and Strouden (LSP).

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Also those four TL15 worlds are all high population with tens of billions of inhabitants each- dwarfing the productivity of other worlds within the Marches by a couple of orders of magnitude. Shipping goods from those worlds cost you all of 1000CR per jump, and since megacorp traders move at jump 4 that is not much of a surcharge for your TL15 goods as they move through the Marches.

Quite, 97% of the Imperial population lives on ~1000 HiPop worlds, and 78% on ~300 PopA worlds. The rest is just irrelevant "jump-over" country.

~20% of the Imperial population lives on TL15 worlds, there is no restricting it...

The Spinward Marches is a little less concentrated with "only" 93% of the Imperial population on HiPop worlds and 14% on TL15 worlds, but still pretty concentrated.


Imperial worlds by population and TL:

 

[mike wightman]

Imperial year 1000 is the year TL15 became the norm for civilian use.

The Imperial military were using TL15 stuff back in the 700s according to MWM's novel which is set in the Third Imperium as defined by him - sort of difficult to argue about that.

 

[Condottiere]

I wouldn't bother replacing and/or major ship systems, since it's probably relatively cheaper to build a new one.

 

[Silverhawk]

I wouldn't bother replacing and/or major ship systems, since it's probably relatively cheaper to build a new one.

Depends on how extensive the refit is. Time to refit vs new construction is also a factor. There are historic examples that support both decisions. But it could be something that would give an interesting plot twist.

 

[Condottiere]

It's usually a question of technical and/or political constraints.

However, with Trillion Credits it's based purely on the financial aspect.

 

[mike wightman]

Upgrading a TL14 warship by installing a TL15 power plant, spinal, screens and computer is a pretty cost effective way of improving your fleet since there is no difference in the armour between 14 and 15.

TL15 bay weapons should be a fairly easy refit too.

 

[infojunky]

And the thread wandered.

 

[mike wightman]

Thread drift always happens, it's very rare to still be on topic after 7 pages.

But here goes.

Another thing a CT+ ships requirement should be compatibility with the latest versions of MgT and T5,

So despite me wanting to go back to the LBB paradigm of small m-drives/large jump drives I can do that as a house rule.

M-drive performance is now dialed up to 9, quad turrets, armour, screens, bays, spinals (of a sort) are all available.

I still prefer the simplicity of LBB:2 but if I want a detailed ship that will be the PCs pride and joy then it's out with FF&S and build it properly.

I would still like CT+ to be a lot more generic than MgT 2e is turning out to be and T5 is totally welded to the OTU.

 

[whartung]

Another thing a CT+ ships requirement should be compatibility with the latest versions of MgT and T5,

Define "compatability". If you mean combat compatibility, then sure. But no reason to hamstring the design system to another ruleset.

 

[infojunky]

Thread drift always happens, it's very rare to still be on topic after 7 pages.

Yes, It does.

But here goes.

Another thing a CT+ ships requirement should be compatibility with the latest versions of MgT and T5,

Tall order kinda, in that what are the common details? Rough Volume, streamlining number of Hardpoints and/or Turrets, Drive Performance and the like.

Also some of this is driven by what combat system you are going to use, I default to some flavor of Mayday and Book2. But that doesn't preclude adding a bunch of chrome.

 

[Condottiere]

There's some term about tinkering with something, and resulting in something undesirable.

It should be stripped to the barebones, emphasizing the concepts you want to base the technology on, and then added on.

 

[mike wightman]

I listed some of the things that are now common to MgT2e and T5, so any CT+ should also include them:

M-drive performance is now dialed up to 9 in both MgT HG and T5

quad turrets are available for hardpoints, the formula for which stays at 1 per 100t

armour, I have still to find a system for armouring LBB2 ships that satisfies me, so adopting the MgT rather than the overly complicated T5 is the way forward to my mind

screens, bays, spinals (of a sort) are all available for any size ship (although you will struggle to get more than a 50t bay into a 100t ship )

 

[infojunky]

armour, I have still to find a system for armouring LBB2 ships that satisfies me, so adopting the MgT rather than the overly complicated T5 is the way forward to my mind

That has been my main stumbling block as well though the longer I look at it some flavor of ablative seems like the clearest path to me.

 

[Dragoner]

Armoring anything with a large opening in the back, such as an rocket engine is fanciful. Not to mention extra mass, which exists, even if abstracted in dtons. Nevertheless, if one were to armor LBB2 vessels, it would be done by modifying the to hit roll, as that is how the mechanic runs through the rest of the set.

 

[mike wightman]

CT+ would likely use armour as damage reduction since that is the way it has been done for personal and vehicle combat since AHL...