CT+ Personal Combat

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by flykiller:
d6, pertinent skill, and stat modifier (identical to those used in the task system?Yep) sounds good. line 'em all up, step 'em through. "who has twelve? go." "who has eleven? go." etc.

when a character reaches his initiative segment, must he expend it in that segment or may he wait upon someone else's action and expend it then?

I like it.

How about;

(Dex/4) + tactics skill + 1d6, if you haven't got tactics then use half your relevant weapon skill.

This gives the military careers a slight edge.

Should it be Dex, or Int, or an average?

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by flykiller:
are interrupts avoidable? d&d combat is about a mass of people thrashing around blocking and parrying and whatnot - you can take them all in order and maintain some realism. but firearms combat usually involves a lot of peaking and shots of opportunity. I hear bits does this well, why not use that?

The BITS ACQ system uses the action points system similar to Snapshot and AHL.
It's a bit too complex for a simple ruleset IMHO.

I lke the way you suggested Initiative could count down, and action held back. Quick and simple.

 

[Berg]

If you use 2 abilities it make it so there is less reliance on one stat ala Munchkin.

Tom

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by Berg:
If you use 2 abilities it make it so there is less reliance on one stat ala Munchkin.

I think you're right Tom.

And Dex is going to be important for the to hit task, so an average with Int may be less munchkin like.

 

[Berg]

I suggested earlier endurance because that way you spread the importance of the various abilities around. Intelligence and Education seem to be important with regards to skills and aquiring them during chargen, so make the other abilities have important rolls during other aspects of the game, for balance to kill the munchkins. Isn't that a game itself

Tom

 

[mike wightman]

You could average your first four stats...

 

[Berg]

The stat or the /4 DM?
Include endurance because: "endurance becomes equivelant to the Twilight 2000 concept of "Coolness under Fire". Furthermore, all three main characteristics form your "hit points" and are therefore very important." I got this from a thread somewhere long ago and thought it made sense.

Tom

 

[zakrol]

Would it be fair to say that Tactics should be the best tactics of those people in your 'fire team' or local group?

Surprise negates tactics of the surprised group?

 

[flykiller]

(Dex/4) + tactics skill + 1d6

(relevant stat modifier) + weapon skill + d6. someone who is familiar with their weapon will be better practiced at handling, aiming, and reloading it, all of which will bear on speed of action. tactics bears on team effectiveness, not individual speed. tactics can apply if someone who has it is directing other people's actions.

stat averages

if stats are averaged then everyone's modifier will approach equality. dexterity seems applicable to firearms, intelligence to tactics.

 

[flykiller]

Initiative could count down, and action held back. Quick and simple.

it seems the easiest way to incorporate into a turn-based system the reactive nature of firearms combat.

rather than consider it an interrupt, perhaps it could be an action that immediately follows the awaited action. "I poke my head around the corner and shoot." roll roll. "I use my delayed action to fire at the now exposed target." roll roll.

 

[mike wightman]

Consider these two characters.

Joe Stargrunt 7 7 7 7 7 7 ex Marine corporal gauss rifle 1, tactics 2, other stuff

Pod Wannabee 7 7 7 7 7 7 ex bureaucrat
pistol 2 (hobby?), other stuff.

Who should usually win initiative?

I suggest tactics because it is an underused skill, and it could represent real time in combat.

How about use the higher of weapon skill or tactics as the initiative modifier?

How about averaging Int and End bonuses, the old MT determination roll, as the initiative factor?

 

[Takei]

I don't like the idea of using weapon skill as an initiative modifier. Olympic standard shooters have a lot of skill, but wouldn't necessarily be great in a firefight.

I also don't like the idea of using End just to counter munchkinism.

This is coming across as a rather negative post It's not meant to be - I'm concerned that we're drifting away from our KISS aim

I've just looked at T2K and 2300AD and in both of them terms in a military/paramilitary service grant initiative mods (which makes sense).

How about this?
1d6 + tactics + terms in a military/law enf career. If we're determined to use some sort of stat mod then Dex is the only one I see as relevant.

 

[mike wightman]

How about brawling as an initiative modifier then?
It represents the nastier side of combat rather than weapon practice.

 

[Takei]

Off of the initiative subject for a moment, are we looking at using the MT weapon and armour stats for damage and AV?

 

[mike wightman]

I was looking to use LBBs1&4 as the primary source for weapon damage, and AHL/Striker/MT for the AVs.

T4 weapon damage from Emperor's Arsenal/ACQ fits in too.

 

[Berg]

If you are looking to give the initiative advantage to a military type character then use tactics, because it occurs most often/exclusively in these types of careers.
1d6 + tactics + Dex DM
Most seem comfortable with this.
Or ((tactics + Dex DM)x2)+ 1d6
Less randomness.

Tom

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Initiative = 1d6 + Tactics + ((Dex/2)-4)

Edit I like Sigg's and Takei's ideas, so:
Initiative = 1d6 + higher of (Tactics or Wpn skill/2) + ((Dex/2)-4) + # mil/law terms/2
end edit

 

[Berg]

If task system uses: atribute/4 then use that,
if task system uses: atr/2-4 then use that

I would stick to tactics and not use weapon skill because lots of non-military characters have it, so use: Military terms/2

So...
Initiative = 1d6 + tactics + (task method for ATRB) + MilTerms/2

Random, but advantage -> military trained

Tom

 

[flykiller]

Joe Stargrunt 7 7 7 7 7 7 ex Marine corporal gauss rifle 1, tactics 2, other stuff

Pod Wannabee 7 7 7 7 7 7 ex bureaucrat
pistol 2 (hobby?), other stuff.

Who should usually win initiative?

if the civilian is better than the soldier, then the civilian. on a case by case basis this is entirely possible. but most soldiers will have more weapons skills than civilians. the real problem is that civilians acquire weapons skills so readily. if career vs career, as such, is to be considered then it becomes necessary to implement t20's bab(?) and other things that just don't go with ct.

I suggest tactics because it is an underused skill, and it could represent real time in combat.

it's underused because it's a group operational skill, and most pc's ignore leadership. book one states that it's left up to the referee how tactics should be implemented on a case by case basis, and this necessarily vague description seems reasonable. when employed it may give a +1 to initiative to an entire team that round, or give a +1 to hit to an entire team that round, or allow an extra turn of movement, or something else. but not an initiative bonus to an individual every round.

How about averaging Int and End bonuses, the old MT determination roll, as the initiative factor?

averages push all individual modifiers towards equality. is that desireable? ain't saying it isn't.

 

[mike wightman]

Ok, last try, for now

Dex/4 + highest combat skill + 1d6