CT+ Personal Combat

[zakrol]

If I understand the model correctly, then, an auto-pistol with 3d against cloth with rating 5, would do 1D - 3 damage?

A laser rifle with 5d would do 1D - 1 damage?

In practice this would mean that you'd need an 'ap' weapon to stand much chance against combat armour?

 

[mike wightman]

Yep, but there is one complicating factor.

You roll the damage dice and then subtract them from lowest to highest.

Here's five auto-pistol shots against cloth armour:

1) 6 4 3, so that's 6 - 3, 3 points get through.
2) 5 5 3, so that's 5 - 3, 2 points get through.
3) 6 3 3, so that's 6 - 3, 3 points get through.
4) 6 5 4, so that's 6 - 3, 3 points get through.
5) 4 3 2, so that's 4 - 3, 1 point get through.

All HEAP rounds are ap.

Here's five gauss rifle rounds against combat armour - which works out as (highest) 1d - 2 damage:

1) 3 3 2 2, so that's 3 - 2, 1 point get through.
2) 5 3 1 1, so that's 5 - 2, 3 points get through.
3) 4 3 3 1, so that's 4 - 2, 2 points get through.
4) 6 5 4 2, so that's 6 - 2, 4 points get through.
5) 6 5 5 3, so that's 6 - 2, 4 points get through.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

On #5 for the auto-pistol, did you mean "4-3, 1 point gets through"?

 

[mike wightman]

Should flexible armour types transmit 1 point of damage for each die blocked?

I have thought about a couple of other things.

Exceptional success (rolling 4 or higher over your target number) gets an additional damage die.

Burst fire adds two damge dice.

Explosive burst rounds get to add an additional damage die for each six rolled on the damage dice.

Weapons can be aimed at unarmoured locations, or more vulnerable locations on whole suit armour

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by Fritz88:
On #5 for the auto-pistol, did you mean "4-3, 1 point gets through"?

Yep, cut'n paste error

 

[Fritz_Brown]

I see a problem with simply upping the damage from ap rounds, though. It works as long as there's armor involved. But, how do you simulate no armor with an ap round? It should be the same damage as a regular round (or even less in a few instances). Do you wing that, ignore it, or what?

 

[mike wightman]

I'm not quite sure I know what you mean Fritz?The ap rounds don't increase their damage do they?

They halve armour.

Against an unarmored target they dump their damage into it like a regular round.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Ahhh, I see where I made a mistake - I didn't look closely enough at the table you provided. It looked like AP rounds had a different damage than non-AP ones. But, I see that's the difference 'tween AP and EB. Otherwise, its just a designation that some weapons are AP.

 

[zakrol]

Thanks for the examples Sigg, that makes sense.

One game balance question that needs to be addressed is the fact that T20 life force is generated on 3d6 whereas CT+ Str+Dex+Edu comes from 6d6 so there is a careful juggling act with weapon effectiveness to allow for the double life force.

We can't just double the weapons, obviously.

I'm assuming this hasn't already been done as the damage done seems low? Or am I analysing this wrongly?

 

[robject]

Does it matter that when one characteristic reaches zero, the PC is down for the count? In T20, I assume the PC operates at full capacity until dead...

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Yes, one attribute to 0 should put you down. That is, after all, CT.

 

[zakrol]

True - but if you can assign dice to stats individually you can take a lot of damage before one stat goes to 0.

Side question - that's one thing that always got me about CT, aside from the first hit can you effectively choose if you want to be knocked unconscious on occasion depending on how you assign the dice?

 

[mike wightman]

The damage is low because cloth armour is very good at stopping auto-pistol rounds, while combat armour works well against gauss rifles.

Let's try shooting Pod, in cloth armour, with a gauss rifle a few times.

The AR of the cloth is half round down because the gauss rifle is ap - that's 2 points of armour so the gauss rifle will inflict the best 2d from 4d rolled.

The five examples:

1) 5 5 4 1, so that's 10 point get through.
2) 6 6 3 3, so that's 12 points get through.
3) 6 6 4 1, so that's 12 points get through.
4) 3 2 1 1, so that's only 5 points get through
5) 4 3 3 1, so that's 7 points get through.

Note the same happens if you use a HEAP snub pistol

The person firing could fire a burst for an additional 2 damage dice, could score an exceptional success for an additional damage die, take aim at an unarmoured location, or all of the above.

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by Zakrol:
True - but if you can assign dice to stats individually you can take a lot of damage before one stat goes to 0.

Side question - that's one thing that always got me about CT, aside from the first hit can you effectively choose if you want to be knocked unconscious on occasion depending on how you assign the dice?

Yep, after the first hit it's up to you how to allocate the damage. So if you choose to you could go unconcious quite easily - depending on your stats of course

The first hit rule in CT has never sounded realistic to me, there are far too many accounts of people not even noticing mortal gunshot wounds.

I'd rather adapt the "first hit" rule to an "on an exceptional hit" rule.

 

[clementk]

Coming in late to this but it looks like you're using T4/T20 armor reduction (which I like) for CT+? So if you're having problems with damage figures etc. can't you just use armor values, "hitpoints" (can't remember T4's term at the mo), and damage dice based on T4 then? I <3 the Emperor's Arsenal.

I don't have ACQ as it has AP which I'm not fond of so can't compare it.

 

[Berg]

I liked the AP concept from Snapshot/AHL, but since it's more complicated I can do without and maybe add later

Tom

 

[clementk]

It'd be a good thing to think about now and then deliver as an article later. IIRC it isn't too difficult to derive from existing game stats. While the concept is valid I just find it another thing to track and boardgamey both of which go against my goals for a fast and simple game and for playing online.

As always YMMV.

 

[Berg]

While the concept is valid I just find it another thing to track and boardgamey both of which go against my goals for a fast and simple game and for playing online

Exactly

I'm looking to CT+ for use with GRiP. In combat I may implement the AP stuff if it's a firefight on a starship where movement and positions are crucial, but if the combat can be done abstract then no need

What form does your online play take Casey? (could be a different thread)

Tom

 

[Berg]

In case we are talking about something different, AP in Snapshot/AHL = Action points for movement and of course actions.

Tom

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by Casey:
Coming in late to this but it looks like you're using T4/T20 armor reduction (which I like) for CT+? So if you're having problems with damage figures etc. can't you just use armor values, "hitpoints" (can't remember T4's term at the mo), and damage dice based on T4 then? I <3 the Emperor's Arsenal.

Yep, this system is a hybrid of T20 and T4/ACQ.

I don't have ACQ as it has AP which I'm not fond of so can't compare it.

I'm using ap to denote armour piercing - although that can change to avoid confusion.
AP means action points in Snapshot, AHL, and ACQ, so I'll have to change ap to something else at some point to avoid confusion.

Any suggestions?