Cosmic cul-de-sacs

[Lexx]

I'm fairly new to traveller but have noted that, given the way the jump drive works, I think that a phenomenom that could be described as a "cosmic cul-de-sac' would be likley, of perhanp even inevitable.

In the case of a CC a fluke of stellar geography results in a group of stars being mostly isolated from any other star outside the group. If there is one single star in the group that can be reached by jump 6 from a star outside the group you get a cul-de-sac, a region with only one way in or out.

These can be of various sizes and offer a lot of possibilities for creating your own minim universes in traveller, while allowing the players out into the rest of the galaxy from time to time, as well as vice-versa.

I suppose these might be called "limited access stellar configurations" in tech terms, but I think that cosmic cul-de-sac would catch on.

I'm working on one that containd about 200 stars, which sounds like a lot but is in reality only about 1/2,000,000,000 the total number of stars in the galaxy, after all. It was not 'created' by the ancients, even they couldn't move whole star stystems (Could they?) but it was extensively occupied by them, perhaps an ancient found it's isolation useful.

Anyway, I'm working on setting up a society in it based on america at her high point, a culture that rejects the imperium, the solomani and other outside domination, including the megacorps. They believe in things like free speech, freedom of and from religion, liberty and justice for all.

The CC in question will usually be referred to as 'the american cluster' or just 'the cluster' and will have been settled by those who still believed in the old american ideals, and wanted a place to go and live by them without interference.

Another reason I'm doing it is to portray american culture in a postive light in response to a lot of american bashing I see going on today.

Anyone think this idea has legs?

Best wishes.

 

[Badbru]

There is an example of something very similar to this in the spinward marches? well behind the claw anyway, it's in the Regency Sourcebook for TNE.

The area is the Islands Cluster iirc. Has English French and German cultures I think rather than American but it's been awhile since I read through RSB so I may have it wrong. I never played in the Marches. Plenty of those that post here did/do though so someone will correct me probably and be even more helpful I'm sure.

 

[Drakon]

Okay, why is the isolation needed? Is this trying to integrate it in with the OTU? Is it to simplify and reduce the number of worlds you ahve to keep track of? Or do you think that such isolation is required due to the fragility of the culture from outside threats?

 

[robject]

The Islands Cluster is a set of around 20 worlds in the middle of "The Claw", a gargantuan rift that divides the Domain of Deneb from the rest of the Imperium. The Islands Cluster is (I believe) two long jumps away from any other system, and were originally colonised by slow boats from Terra. A misjumped Scout found them, effected repairs, gave the mainworlds jumpdrive technology, then moved on, letting them fight a massive consolidation war (now that they were given cheap & fast interstellar travel).

I find Cul-de-sac clusters really cool, and wish there were some in the Traveller Universe. Instead, I enjoy thinking about some of the worlds perched on the edge of a Rift, with a few neighbors in one direction, and a hundred parsecs of nothing in the other directions.

I figure there ought to be a few cul-de-sacs out there, nevertheless. Although it might be hard to find such large ones -- that practically takes up a sector, doesn't it?

The other neato phenomenon I like is the "Old Capital" proto-Traveller Universe, with Capital being a world that bridges (and therefore controls) the only passage through an extremely long rift. It's likely that that idea eventually morphed into Vland, the seat of the First Imperium -- although Vland is merely one world on one end of a wide corridor connecting the Domain of Deneb to the rest of the Imperium.

 

[Straybow]

None of which works in a 3D world...

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Straybow:
None of which works in a 3D world...

Well that's not strictly true, you just have to map such a set-up to 3D, but I expect you meant something like that.

A star system(s) could still be isolated in a 3D galaxy in the same way as described for a simplistic 2D representation, just taking into account the extra axis.

The real problem here is deciding if you allow deep-space jumps or not. If you do then there are no rifts or gulfs, no dead end pockets of solar systems with only one way in and out. Personally I prefer not allowing deep space jumps for this reason and others. In this case at least, what canon there is to support it be damned, imtu

 

[Lexx]

Originally posted by Drakon:
Okay, why is the isolation needed? Is this trying to integrate it in with the OTU? Is it to simplify and reduce the number of worlds you ahve to keep track of? Or do you think that such isolation is required due to the fragility of the culture from outside threats?

If that's a dig on american culture you can just put a lid on it right now.

As a matter of fact,I wanted an isolated pocket of stars to keep foreign powers, like the imperium, from coming in and stealing everything after the american minded settlers built a prosperous ans vigorous economy and society.

 

[kafka47]

There are plenty of worlds that are the frontier. Building in a pocket universe of 200 worlds would be difficult but not impossible task.

Take the Rim pockets that exist far to the Rimward of the Solomani Sphere, you can bet those good ole boys in the Deep South...ahem...Deep Space will not want anything to do with any centralized government calling itself the Imperium...especially, after the War of Solomani Liberty.

There are also whole pockets of isolated worlds amongst the different rifts. Plus, what exists Spinward of the Far Frontiers or Vanguard Reaches is also very fertile territory for what you are proposing...least of all the areas beyond the Beyond Sector...

The Zhodani have also mounted a long corridor of colonies stretching toward the Galatic Core, there is no reason why these have not spouted Arms (Legs?) and migrated into other parts of the Sector and created independent cultures...although, I speculate MJD might have a ruling there...

 

[Lexx]

I'm going by gurps traveller, which limits jumpt to jump 6.

 

[Drakon]

Originally posted by Straybow:
None of which works in a 3D world...

Oh contraire mon frere (-2sp)

Yesterday downloaded the Astrosynth demo, the new software that allows you to make 3D star maps. One of the features is to run routes from star to star. And it was while playing with that, that I got what this "Cosmic cul de sac" is all about.

Start by limiting to Jump 2, which I surmise means a jump of no more than 2.5 parsecs. (actually, you can make diffrent colored jump routes, one for jump 1, jump 2, etc. building them up) (Added the 0.5 to the jump number to account for stars not being centered in their position or hex) You get some very interesting constellations in the deal.

Learned that at Jump 2, Sol, Alpha Centauri and Barnard form a triangle. Sol connects to Wolf359 which in turn connects to 5 other stars. Barnard connects to another star, which in turn is connected to 3 others. Alpha does not connect to anyone else at jump 2.

There are several systems that you can jump from one star to the other, but no where else. At least not at this jump number. There are several other neat constellations, some isolated, just in the 20 light year sphere around our own sun. It is pretty neat.

 

[Drakon]

Originally posted by Lexx:
If that's a dig on american culture you can just put a lid on it right now.

Actually quite the opposite. I was trying to figure out if you were making a dig.

As a matter of fact,I wanted an isolated pocket of stars to keep foreign powers, like the imperium, from coming in and stealing everything after the american minded settlers built a prosperous ans vigorous economy and society.

Hmm.. I can see that as a reason. Like I said earlier, I had been geeking out severly today after getting Astrosynth demo. There are some very playable scenarios that come to mind. Wolf 359 is a major choke point if you want to get to Terra. But that depends on the maximum jump capabilities available. (it is very interesting to me anyway how these constellations of jump routes change with increasing jump number.)

 

[Andrew Boulton]

If that's a dig on american culture

"What do you think of American culture?"

"I think it would be a very good idea."

As Gandhi might have said.

[Insert smiley if you feel the need]

 

[jasper]

boom ding!

 

[Fritz_Brown]

I had a similar idea quite a while back. It was actually a true technocracy. It developed independent of the Imperium, and was more advanced than the Imperium. I don't remember the official name I gave the cluster, but they were known as the Mosesian Schism. A pure technocrat and his followers left the Empire early on, managed to cross a rift, and colonized a number of planets.

Of course, when I created characters from that region, they weren't allowed to bring any of the cool technology with them, drat it all. Silly referee kept saying something about fairness to the other players....

 

[Lexx]

Originally posted by Drakon:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Lexx:
If that's a dig on american culture you can just put a lid on it right now.

Actually quite the opposite. I was trying to figure out if you were making a dig.

As a matter of fact,I wanted an isolated pocket of stars to keep foreign powers, like the imperium, from coming in and stealing everything after the american minded settlers built a prosperous ans vigorous economy and society.

Hmm.. I can see that as a reason. Like I said earlier, I had been geeking out severly today after getting Astrosynth demo. There are some very playable scenarios that come to mind. Wolf 359 is a major choke point if you want to get to Terra. </font>[/QUOTE]Must be why the borg went thru it on their first attack on terra....

 

[Drakon]

Well, I am going to second Maspy recommendation of AstroSynth. By adjusting the route lengths, there is all kinds of stuff you can learn. If you want to get to Sol, you have to go through either Barnard's (Ross 154 and AX Microscopii), or Wolf 359. The jump from Wolf is longer, but more direct.

 

[Shadowdancer]

I toyed around with the idea of a cosmic cul-de-sac a few years ago when I was bored and messing around with some RPG stuff for my own amusement, rather than actual preparation for actual gaming.

I had just bought a copy of a Star Wars supplement (the original game, not the d20 version) at a local gaming store which was going out of business. It had to do with smugglers and traders.

Anyway, it described several systems close to each other, yet isolated from the rest of the Imperium. So I made up a Traveller subsector which was isolated by a one-way in-and-out J-6 route. It turned out very nice, and looked like a very playable pocket empire setting. Although it didn't contain 200 systems, but that could be done out on the fringes of the OTU.

 

[Lexx]

I've decided to make some ususual features in my cul-de-sac to help explain things.

First off, it IS a natural phenomena, not created by the ancients (Even they couldn't move whole star systems, AFAIK) but it was extensively used by at least one and it's opbvious many of the planets were terraformed to various degrees.

Also, a planet in the system was apparently created by the ancients: It's a very small 'gas giant' that consists of a neutronium core that creates ewnough gravity to maintain a 'gas giant' type atmosphere roughly twice the size of a standard terra type planet, call it about 16,000 miles across.

A generally terra type planet is in orbit of this artificial 'gas giant' which places it in the 'biosphere' of the local sun. As to why the ancients wanted a gas giant type environment so close, the theory, in the sotry, is that they were experimenting with creating some type of gas giant environment life form or ecologyu and wanted a convenient envirtonment to work in.

The sector will be dedicated to democracy, and will have systems and worlds named after people, nations and states that were vital to democracy and it's development. The main character in the story comes from a planet called 'Jefferson'.

As I see it now, the cluster was first settled in I120 by those who didn't want to live in the third imperium OR the solomani federation. As the current year in traveller draws near I1120 things are coming to a head in the democratic cluster...

 

[aramis]

Actually, Adv 12 Secret of the Ancients says they COULD move entire systems. At least, in to pocket universes, and strongly implies that they were also moved through space as well; the PU has multiple systems in an impossibly close arangement!

but anyway, some more refutations:

the islands are only j7 from one side, J8 from another. any J4 with drop tanks can make it. any J5 with drop tanks can make it both ways.

Canon clearly allows deep space jumps: There are deep space jumps in CT's TTA, MT's Arrival Vengeance, and TNE puts actual calibration point refuelling stations in some of them.

As I recall, the nummbers aren't terribly bad in GT's ship design: the islands are reacable by a 2J4 equipped ship, which is a J5 with drop tanks attached, or a really tight J4 explorer.

Under MT, the islands are READILY reachable.

The best a ship can jump without refuelling en-route is about J12... a J4 on drop tanks, a second J4 (internal) and a third J4 on internal. The crew is packed in like sardines. It's ugly, but it's fairly doable. (Under MT, up that to J18. 2j6 aboard, 1j6 off drop tanks; 75% internal fuel, 7% drive, another 10% for power & comp, and a very small cabin)

Long Jumper design, TL15 400 Td HG design:
J4 drive 20Td
J4 Fuel 160Td
J4 Fuel 160Td
Model 4 4Td
Bridge 20Td
PP4 16Td
PPF 16Td
2 d/o Smal SR (2TdEa) 4Td
Note the lack of maneuver drive...
Pilot, Navigator, 2 Engineers.

adding drop-tanks, one can get 3J4 performance.

Under T20, one can actually do better; the computer can be reduced in size, to 2 Td, and you can then make room for a third SSR, or you can add a pair of bunks and a gunner. Crew is going to go stir crazy, but hey!
Double the size, and you wind upwith 20 useful tons of space! (everything else doubles, but not the bridge! Crew actually only climbs to 6.)

 

[kafka47]

There is also the whole idea of entire sectors moved through Jump Space. As in Michael R. Mikesh's article in Security Leak entitled Islands in Jump Space hopefully all these ideas inspire you onward.

The most important thing is as much as we old timers or youthful grumpy old men (like myself dating my Traveller playing from around 1982)...we always welcome new ideas (even if we shoot them down), it is those ideas that keep the passion alive, so ignore some of the ire, it is never personal...