Civil wars (planetary) inter and intra system conflict.

[gendo666]

Now my question is about systems off the beaten path Spinward and not core worlds.
How would the Impeium deal with civil war ( Planetary not Imperial government) on a backwater world?
Would they stay neutral and then deal with the winners or step in if it dragged on to long?
AND
What about inter and intra system conflict

Say a group of asteroids or a newly colonized world in the same system wanting to be seen as an independent.

or conflicts between 2 planets/ factions in two different systems?

Again, if this was a backwater setting.

 

[Dragoner]

Would they stay neutral and then deal with the winners or step in if it dragged on to long?

This one pretty much.

 

[aramis]

N
What about inter and intra system conflict

Say a group of asteroids or a newly colonized world in the same system wanting to be seen as an independent.

or conflicts between 2 planets/ factions in two different systems?

Again, if this was a backwater setting.

M3ITU... intra-system or on-world, no intervention unless...

• chem, nukes or bio weapons used
• ethnic cleansing in process
• non-military production actively targeted.

inter system, add overt imperialism... you're not allowed to take over your neighbors by force, but are allowed to hang onto your member worlds if the 3i things you are a multi-world polity.

 

[Khan Trav]

Also private interest from important or influential figure or mega corporations. Other than what Aramis listed, I would say no other hard-fast rules.

We had an ethnic cleansing on Whanga due to an error by the IISS where they surveyed the world and declared it devoid of sentient life. They sold the planet and its mineral exploitation rites and the initial survey teams for the mining company found residual populations of humans and vargr. At this point the bribes had been paid so a secret deal was struck to hire a mercenary team to clean em out.

My PCs were sent in by the IISS to investigate and got caught up in it. Fun was had by all.

 

[Timerover51]

M3ITU... intra-system or on-world, no intervention unless...

• chem, nukes or bio weapons used
• ethnic cleansing in process
• non-military production actively targeted.

inter system, add overt imperialism... you're not allowed to take over your neighbors by force, but are allowed to hang onto your member worlds if the 3i things you are a multi-world polity.

Given how easy it would be to extemporize chemical weapons from industrial chemicals, chlorine immediately comes to mind, I am not sure that the Imperium would immediately intervene it that situation. Biologicals I can see because of the chance for uncontrolled spread, and nuclear weapons for obvious reasons.

And I assume that you are restricting industrial targeting to overt military production, as there are a lot of things that could be construed as a military target. Electric production facilities and distribution systems would be a very obvious one.

 

[rancke]

Also private interest from important or influential figure or mega corporations. Other than what Aramis listed, I would say no other hard-fast rules.

Actually, the only one that is canonical is that the use of nuclear weapons will trigger intervention. It makes sense to suppose that other weapons of mass destruction will have a high likelihood of likewise triggering intervention.

As for private interests subverting Imperial high nobles, that's perfectly plausible. But it's worth noting that this would constitute wrongdoing on the part of the noble; if he is exposed, the Emperor might remove him from his post.

We had an ethnic cleansing on Whanga due to an error by the IISS where they surveyed the world and declared it devoid of sentient life. They sold the planet and its mineral exploitation rites and the initial survey teams for the mining company found residual populations of humans and vargr. At this point the bribes had been paid so a secret deal was struck to hire a mercenary team to clean em out.

Only JTAS Online backing for that one, I'm afraid. Note that the secret extermination program was undertaken by the Sternmetal regional manager with no (known) collusion by any Imperial bureaucrat.

My PCs were sent in by the IISS to investigate and got caught up in it. Fun was had by all.

I'm very pleased to learn that.


Hans

 

[Amber Chancer]

Actually, the only one that is canonical is that the use of nuclear weapons will trigger intervention. It makes sense to suppose that other weapons of mass destruction will have a high likelihood of likewise triggering intervention.

I've never been particularly persuaded by any of this, tbh.

All this "Imperial intervention" stuff is phooey. Even if the intervention decisions are taken at subsector capital level, rather than at sector or even remoter, once nukes or optehr major WMD are deployed, the conflict would probably be all over LONG before the intervention decision coudl be taken and acted upon.

Remote decision making and speed-of-travel communications result in FAR more local autonomy of action than most canon interpretations seem to allow for. Think 4th century Roman empire to get some idea of the governmental effects you ought to expect to see.

 

[Timerover51]

I've never been particularly persuaded by any of this, tbh.

All this "Imperial intervention" stuff is phooey. Even if the intervention decisions are taken at subsector capital level, rather than at sector or even remoter, once nukes or optehr major WMD are deployed, the conflict would probably be all over LONG before the intervention decision coudl be taken and acted upon.

Remote decision making and speed-of-travel communications result in FAR more local autonomy of action than most canon interpretations seem to allow for. Think 4th century Roman empire to get some idea of the governmental effects you ought to expect to see.

I am not sure I would agree with you with respect to nuclear weapons and biological agents, as those, if gotten off world, pose a considerable risk to the Imperium at large. Also, civil wars tend to be long, drawn-out affairs, such as the English Civil War, the American Civil War, and the Tai-Ping Rebellion in China. That would allow for outside intervention, which is something the the Confederacy actively courted during the American Civil War. Also, even the resources of a sub-sector or sector would likely be sufficient for a decisive intervention if there was a gross disparity in tech levels between the combatants and the intervening forces.

Chemical agent use would not trigger intervention in my view because it could be done so easily, and because of the large quantities needed, does not pose near the threat to other planets in the Imperium.

 

[PFVA63]

I've never been particularly persuaded by any of this, tbh.

All this "Imperial intervention" stuff is phooey. Even if the intervention decisions are taken at subsector capital level, rather than at sector or even remoter, once nukes or optehr major WMD are deployed, the conflict would probably be all over LONG before the intervention decision coudl be taken and acted upon.

Remote decision making and speed-of-travel communications result in FAR more local autonomy of action than most canon interpretations seem to allow for. Think 4th century Roman empire to get some idea of the governmental effects you ought to expect to see.

Hi,

I suppose that if the Imperium feared a nuclear exchange they could station a force in system as a threat of intervention.

 

[Khan Trav]

Props to Hans and Hemdian

Only JTAS Online backing for that one, I'm afraid. Note that the secret extermination program was undertaken by the Sternmetal regional manager with no (known) collusion by any Imperial bureaucrat.


I'm very pleased to learn that.


Hans

Hans I should have mentioned you in my post. I have a campaign spanning around 4 years which relies heavily on background created by you and Hemdian aka Peter LS Trevor. I would also think that knowing it the way you do it would drive you nuts to be a PC in the campaign because I do take 'liberties' here and there.

Sternmetal is the Megacorp I used and they provided a corporate asset in the form of Dagger, an 800 ton Mercenary Cruiser.

In this case Whanga was interdicted by the IISS and the station chief was in colusion with a sternmetal executive trouble shooter.

In the end the IISS characters along with a group of native vargr managed to defeat the evil mercenary team. Then they used a ruse to get aboard Dagger and capture her. After that things wound down quickly with arrests and such. The Local IISS station chief did manage to escape and is now on the run. She is a villain which may appear again.

The action on the ground sadly resulted in the complete extermination of the human population. The interdiction is still in place and the Navy is assisting the IISS in administering the system.

There are still many adventure threads possible on this slightly altered vargr exclusive world of whanga.

Again this is a simplification of this particular leg of the campaign and the hole punchers among you will have difficulty in resisting poking holes but fun was had by all.

The new element of this campaign involves a mercenary Lt. named Danny Pritchard who was sent from his home turf in the Sword Worlds into imperial space looking for contracts only to be caught up in the Whanga incident. Fortunately for him he was on the right side, aka the winning side. The adventure has led to Ruie where he had hoped to reunite with his mercenary unit. Now the campaign is involved in assisting his unit in recovering their embargoed heavy weapons and equipment. They are outside the Imperium and the Sword Worlds so they are not likely to receive help from either faction.

And Hans inspired partially by you there is a Zhodani faction involved on Ruie and this is 1103.

NOTE: At no time was stealth utilized by any space going vessel during the campaign.

 

[robject]

As for nuclear devices, the Imperium would much prefer that useful worlds remain useful. If they catch wind of nukes being used against a world, there must be swift discipline dealt to the offender, even if there's nothing left of the target world. That sort of thing is really not to be tolerated.

And really, the idea is to have the threat of an assault formation of Imperial marines as a deterrent to economic destruction of a world. Noone wants the marines to reduce and/or occupy their world, or whatever it is they do.

 

[McPerth]

If Imperial intervention was a usual thing, most LBB4 would be void (in fact only CharGen would be truly useful), as most of it is about those civil (from Imperial POV, as most are planetary, but among diferent nations) wars the OP talks about.

So, I guess things must go really out of hand to trigger it.

 

[Carlobrand]

I've never been particularly persuaded by any of this, tbh.

All this "Imperial intervention" stuff is phooey. Even if the intervention decisions are taken at subsector capital level, rather than at sector or even remoter, once nukes or optehr major WMD are deployed, the conflict would probably be all over LONG before the intervention decision coudl be taken and acted upon.

Remote decision making and speed-of-travel communications result in FAR more local autonomy of action than most canon interpretations seem to allow for. Think 4th century Roman empire to get some idea of the governmental effects you ought to expect to see.

Side A uses nukes, overwhelms Side B, conquers, starts imposing its will on Side B - and three months later, Imperial Marines land by drop capsule and overthrow the victorious government while Imperial warships in orbit warn the local military to stand down and remain in barracks or face nuclear attack from orbit. Imperial occupation forces impose a captive, Imperial-controlled government while Imperial authorities sort things out, clean up the residual radiation, and conduct their version of the Nuremberg trials on Side A. A bunch of senior Side A leaders end up as the stars of highly publicized executions. Neither Side A nor Side B are thrilled as strangers from afar spend the next couple of decades forcing them to settle their differences at the point of a fusion gun backed by TL15 intelligence-gathering technology.

The once-victorious Side A finds itself at best reduced to fighting a protracted and ultimately futile guerrilla war, as from the Imperial point of view this is about delivering a clear and unambiguous lesson about the consequences of violating Imperial writ, one that every system in the sector will understand, rather than about such abstract concepts as justice or fairness.

The key isn't how long it takes. The key is how hard the hammer falls. The TL15 Imperium wields a much bigger hammer than any Roman could ever hope for. Let that happen a couple of times, and the various local governments will decide that attracting Imperial attention is a really, really bad idea. Much cheaper to hire in some high-tech mercs, or to persuade some megacorp to back your cause in exchange for some "considerations".

 

[PFVA63]

Hi,

Alternatively, there is also the possibility that any Imperial forces &/or representatives in system will serve as a tripwire. In the event that they either warn of a growing threat toward the use of interdicted weapons, or cease to respond at all due to being prevented from communicating (in the event of being held captive or having been caught in the nuclear crossfire), the closest Imperial force can be diverted in system to act as a deterrent to any illegal activities on the part of the warring parties.

As suggested by CarloBrand above a large deterrent wouldn't be required if it is clear that such a force can/will be backed up by the full force of the Imperium in due time.