ShawnDriscoll
SOC-14 1K
One would only hear about this if they Bing/Google searched the term. Anyway, Traveller is not in the PC/SJW business.
Change the term Middle Passage
- Thread starter pzmcgwire
- Start date
One would only hear about this if they Bing/Google searched the term. Anyway, Traveller is not in the PC/SJW business.
I agree.
The only connotation that I ever had was that MIDDLE came between HIGH and LOW (the other two Passage Class options in the game).
I always thought there was room in CT for a cheaper "Double Occupancy" passage, but I NEVER objected to the word "Middle".
What does this mean?
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Yes, I know what PC/SJW means but what does "Traveller is not in the PC/SJW business" mean?
My guess at his intended meaning is that a TERM that has been used in a GAME for 49 years (since 1971) should not need to be changed because someone MIGHT be offended that a SIMILAR term describes something that has not existed for 155 years (since 1865) and means something completely different from and unrelated to the game.
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I could be wrong, but here goes my understanding.
Politically Correct: CotI is not in the business of either making someone feel better about themselves or making them feel better about someone else by changing a word or phrase to another word or phrase that is less offensive. an example would be changing Garbage Man to Sanitation Engineer.
Social Justice Warrior: CotI is concerned with maintaining the integrity of the Traveller Universe in whichever direction the creators and players take it. or at least helping the Game Masters and Players understand the Traveller Universe they have entered. CotI is not concerned with the Real World in the broad sense, unless it has some impact on the Traveller Franchise or the CotI Forums.
as far as the original post goes, he shared his view on the term Middle Passage and about changing it in his Traveller Universe, and the feed back that was given is that he can do that if he wants to, but it isn't going to change in the Official Traveller Universe.
like some others who have read this thread, I have learned something new. no one I know likes the concept or reality of slavery, but yet slavery still exists. in real life as in Traveller, there will be those who want to profit on the misery of others, and there will be those who want to bring freedom to the enslaved, and see that justice is served to the slavers.
Politically Correct: CotI is not in the business of either making someone feel better about themselves or making them feel better about someone else by changing a word or phrase to another word or phrase that is less offensive. an example would be changing Garbage Man to Sanitation Engineer.
Social Justice Warrior: CotI is concerned with maintaining the integrity of the Traveller Universe in whichever direction the creators and players take it. or at least helping the Game Masters and Players understand the Traveller Universe they have entered. CotI is not concerned with the Real World in the broad sense, unless it has some impact on the Traveller Franchise or the CotI Forums.
as far as the original post goes, he shared his view on the term Middle Passage and about changing it in his Traveller Universe, and the feed back that was given is that he can do that if he wants to, but it isn't going to change in the Official Traveller Universe.
like some others who have read this thread, I have learned something new. no one I know likes the concept or reality of slavery, but yet slavery still exists. in real life as in Traveller, there will be those who want to profit on the misery of others, and there will be those who want to bring freedom to the enslaved, and see that justice is served to the slavers.
[m;] Please be cautious that this conversation does NOT slip into a political debate, I really don't want to have to take administrative action. [/m;]
Pcmcgwire, your post has been flagged for review, and the powers that be have been made aware of your concern.
Thank you
~Cryton
Pcmcgwire, your post has been flagged for review, and the powers that be have been made aware of your concern.
Thank you
~Cryton
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pzmcgwire
SOC-9
I appreciate the discussion about this. Now when I started playing Traveller in the early 1980s, the term was just a part of the nomenclature of the Traveller universe and it did not bother me.
I don't think I heard the term in high school or college and only recently noticed its historical context.
In today's conversation, most people do not use the term Final Solution so there are word phrases that carry a meaning beyond the literal words.
This is one of them for me.
I don't think I heard the term in high school or college and only recently noticed its historical context.
In today's conversation, most people do not use the term Final Solution so there are word phrases that carry a meaning beyond the literal words.
This is one of them for me.
Original_Carl
SOC-12
FWIW in MTU (cf WTF BBQ?)...
I don't use a middle passage. You either pay the money and travel High or pay less and travel Low (and risk death). The only other way to travel is to sign on and work.
Cool historical reference. I had no idea about the slave trade reference. I do use slavery in MTU. It's disgusting, inhumane and ugly. Just like in real life. I find slavery abhorrent. Which is probably why it makes for a great boogeyman in storytelling. Also incentive not to go broke in the wrong place. I got inspired by E.C. Tubb's Dumarest books. Slavery is always looming in that setting.
I don't use a middle passage. You either pay the money and travel High or pay less and travel Low (and risk death). The only other way to travel is to sign on and work.
Cool historical reference. I had no idea about the slave trade reference. I do use slavery in MTU. It's disgusting, inhumane and ugly. Just like in real life. I find slavery abhorrent. Which is probably why it makes for a great boogeyman in storytelling. Also incentive not to go broke in the wrong place. I got inspired by E.C. Tubb's Dumarest books. Slavery is always looming in that setting.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I use converted stables.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
I think it's more like taking a US transcontinental 5-day railroad trip with a seat and access to food vending machines and the autobar, vs. having a Pullman room and getting access to the dining car and lounge/entertainment provisions.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
There probably is, but that Cr2000 for a week's life support makes it more like a Cr4000 option, and I'd definitely be rolling for effects on the characters.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
I thought it was pretty clear- you fix your own meals, no mints on the pillow (metaphorically), 100kg of baggage that is 10x less then High Passage, the infamous bump, no provided entertainment- VERY coach class.
OTOH you do get a room pretty much like the other High Passage people, so likely similar bathroom and entertainment/snack systems one would expect in a high tech hotel room. Just maybe they turn off the heated towel function and the really good entertainment 'Library'.
well, a Small Cabin for Mid Passage brings the same profit per ton that a Stateroom with a Double High Passage does per ton (before you consider life support).
with a Small Cabin, you don't have to worry whether a passenger wants to double up or not (High Passengers tend to prefer single occupancy), and there are usually more passengers willing to go Mid versus High no matter which world you stop at.
on Tramp Traders, there isn't usually much space to keep High Pax separate from Mid Pax travelers, at least that's the way it looks to me. so unless the High Passengers are really insistent about it, there is going to be some mingling amongst the passengers. on a bigger ship, this shouldn't be a problem.
ahh, I don't know how different T5 is from T20 on this subject, just noticed the heading of the Thread.
with a Small Cabin, you don't have to worry whether a passenger wants to double up or not (High Passengers tend to prefer single occupancy), and there are usually more passengers willing to go Mid versus High no matter which world you stop at.
on Tramp Traders, there isn't usually much space to keep High Pax separate from Mid Pax travelers, at least that's the way it looks to me. so unless the High Passengers are really insistent about it, there is going to be some mingling amongst the passengers. on a bigger ship, this shouldn't be a problem.
ahh, I don't know how different T5 is from T20 on this subject, just noticed the heading of the Thread.
a steward is required if you want High Passengers at all, no matter what the ships size is.
I just skimmed T5 on this subject, and there seems to be a little more flexibility on passenger to passenger space. as for High Passage, can they only go into the Luxury State Room? plus it looks as though it is only single occupancy. I saw a chart that lets a ship adjust passenger costs up or down, and at KCr 10 for 6 tons of space, they would have to adjust it up if passenger focus is on High Pax. 10 Low Pax takes up 5 tons and pays KCr 10 in comparison. and you don't need to pay a steward a salary like you do if you want to carry any High Pax.
I just skimmed T5 on this subject, and there seems to be a little more flexibility on passenger to passenger space. as for High Passage, can they only go into the Luxury State Room? plus it looks as though it is only single occupancy. I saw a chart that lets a ship adjust passenger costs up or down, and at KCr 10 for 6 tons of space, they would have to adjust it up if passenger focus is on High Pax. 10 Low Pax takes up 5 tons and pays KCr 10 in comparison. and you don't need to pay a steward a salary like you do if you want to carry any High Pax.
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