Called Shots vs Automatic Fire?

[Rover]

I was wondering, are called shots and burst fire mutually exclusive?

Called shots give you a negative to BAB and are a full round action. Burst fire gives a + to damage or a + to hit.

What I would like to know is can you do a called shot with burst fire?

The way I think of it you can use a burst for a called shot, but the GM says no. What are your thoughts.

 

[Ellros]

I allow it in my campaign, but for 3 or 4 round bursts within the first range increment only. And as a full round action, so only 1 burst allowed. Tactical police and Special Ops are trained to be pretty accurate with 3 round bursts out of MP-5 smg's, so there is a bit of realism in there.

 

[Rover]

Thanks for the ammo. (pun in tended)

 

[snrdg082102]

Evening Rover and Ellros,

I've been in several similar situations were I disagreed with a GM's call. Most of the time the GM listened and allowed the action. Unfortunately, a couple of GM's eventually found a way to kill off my PC. Basically, the GM is the final authority in her/his game setting. What other GMs allow in their settings is strictly up to the individual.

Overall, I agree with Ellros that a 3-round burst in the first, maybe second range category should be allowed.

 

[Rover]

Thanx for the input.

I do agree that the GM has final word, but I'm lucky in that I can discuss things over with him and he's open to change.

When the issue first came up I asked if I could do called shot with burst fire he said no and we continued the game.

BTW I hate players who interupt a good gaming session to argue over rules. A quick pause to look something up is one thing, but in an old top secret game I rember a 4 hour argument on the effects of placing a live grenade under half a corpse, but I digress...

 

[Takei]

Originally posted by Rover:
What I would like to know is can you do a called shot with burst fire?

I would probably allow a single (3-4 round burst only) attack within the first range increment as long as the character had the Precise Shot feat.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Ellros:
I allow it in my campaign, but for 3 or 4 round bursts within the first range increment only. And as a full round action, so only 1 burst allowed. Tactical police and Special Ops are trained to be pretty accurate with 3 round bursts out of MP-5 smg's, so there is a bit of realism in there.

Yep, oh well you beat me to it Ellros. I remember when the MP-5 (at least I think it was the MP-5) first came out it was a huge advance to have a cyclic rate that was so fast the last round of the burst was clearing the muzzle before the recoil had completed. The effect was very tight burst grouping, almost a single point, certainly as good as expertly aimed single shot groups. So that definately supports the aimed shot for the first burst from such a weapon.

However I don't think this is a typical weapon and if I were the GM and you wanted the capability to conduct aimed shot burst fire I'd at least make you buy a Masterwork version (see Craft skill p.72) but instead of the +1 to hit it grants the burst fire aimed shot capability. Pass that on to your GM and they will perhaps go for it, hehe, anything to suck more creds outa the PC's, eh?

 

[Rover]

May Dear Far Trader.

That's a really good idea. I have yet to broach the subject with my GM though. While talking about this with another gamer he pointed out that if we could do it, so could the guys who are shooting back at us. Turn about is fair play after all.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Rover:
May Dear Far Trader.

That's a really good idea. I have yet to broach the subject with my GM though. While talking about this with another gamer he pointed out that if we could do it, so could the guys who are shooting back at us. Turn about is fair play after all.

Happy to help(?) Rover

As for the turn about, that's been GM rule number one for me for ages

, if a player starts asking for something too dangerous I'd just smile and say something like "That's a great idea, oh and it fits so well for an NPC I was going to work up. Okay you work out the specifics for me and we'll see if your character can find it." That should kill the idea or at least make the PC very, very nervous

 

[justacaveman]

I don't allow called shots with burst fire.

With burst fire you get either an attack bonus, or a damage bonus. If you allow called shots and one of the above, you give too much to the user of burst fire weapons. Snipers don't use auto-fire for a reason.

 

[Rover]

Originally posted by LordRhys:
Snipers don't use auto-fire for a reason.

My Dear LordRhys,
While this is true, snipers are covered seperatly under a couple of different feats.

And sniples Taditionally operate at much longer ranges that a character with a SMG.

 

[Ellros]

Snipers also cause crits with their hits, using their feat. Called shots in my campaign, just reduce armor (like AP rounds) a certain amount, depending on the called shot. Tougher the shot, more the armor is reduced.

 

[justacaveman]

A Called Shot to a character's helmetless head = dead character (unless he's damn lucky, or has a high CON).

A DEX 15 shooter with a BAB of +5 firing a 4-round burst(for extra damage)from a Gauss Pistol at a DEX 13 person wearing a flak jacket (AC15)needs to roll an 8 or higher on the attack roll in order to hit at a range of less than 80 meters. A called shot to the head would only require a roll of 14 or higher. The pistol will do 3d12 damage probably killing the target. Add some equipment, and a few feats and Called Shots to the head are easy.

Point Blank Shot:+1 to attack and damage at 10 meters or less.

Precise Shot: Shoot into melee with no penalty.

Quick Draw: Drawing a weapon is a free action.

Weapon Focus (Gauss Pistol): +1 to attack rolls.

Weapon Specialization (Gauss Pistol): +2 damage.

Laser Sight: +2 Attack Bonus at short range.

The above Character could draw his pistol and shoot the target in the head, and would only need to roll a 10 on the attack roll at 10 meters or less. If he hits he does 3d12+3 damage.

If he used his 4-round burst for an attack bonus, he would hit on an 8, and do 1d12+3 damage.

Way too munchkin for me.

 

[Rover]

My Dear LordRhys,

Very well put. As I said I decided not to pursue the issue with my GM because if we can do it to them, they can do it to us.

You give another reason why. The game should be about the adventure and not the rules.

 

[apoc527]

LordRhys-

Actually, he'd do 3d12+9 with that hit, almost CERTAINLY killing his target. Weapon Specialization and Point Blank Shot damage multiples with criticals in normal d20. I have no reason to believe it wouldn't in T20. Hehe. That's really disgusting, by the way.

But wait, that was for a burst shot so nevermind. However, I might rule that a hit to the head is an auto-crit, doing 3d12+9 with a single shot. Hehehehe...well, nobody said combat in T20 was fun!

 

[justacaveman]

If he rolled a 20 on that called shot, and scored a Critical Threat, then rolled a 10 to get a Critical Hit, the damage would be 5d12+9 (1d12+3 times 3 for the Critical Hit, plus 2d12 for the 4-round burst.).

A Critical Hit with the single shot would be 3d12+9.

But yeah, it would definitely be nasty on the receiving end.

The reason for Called Shots, is to allow you to bypass armor. No AR to absorb damage if you hit a helmetless head. Anything else is too deadly to allow. A single shot to the head with almost any weapon would result in death if it was an automatic Critical hit. I would allow a Called Shot (at a -8) for a weak spot in fully enclosed armor allowing the AR to be halved.

Just because you hit with a Called Shot to the head doesn't mean you hit dead center, it just means you hit that location. You could score a hit to the head and just graze the scalp, resulting in a painful but hardly fatal wound.