Book 2 and Book 5 designs

[Ranger]

I've been gathering ship designs from various sources, and have collected about 70 different comercial ships that are a mix of book 2 and book 5 designs. I like the range of variation this gives me in populating the shipping lanes, but I've been trying to come up with a rational for having so many 'antiquated' book 2 ships floating around.
Here is the solution I came up with. Book 2 represents TL 12 and bellow. Book 5 designs become available at TL 13 and above. Class A ports with a TL of 12 or less can only build book 2 ships. I like this idea because it explains why there are so many book 2 ship designs still around, and it gives a real advantage to any society that reaches TL 13 first. Just wondering if I am missing someting. Any comments?

Rob

 

[WendellM]

I've never viewed B2 designs as antiquated and have no problem with B5's explanation (p. 18) that B2 uses standard, off-the-shelf, components (while B5's are presumably more efficient but more costly ones). I redesigned the Type S with B5 a while back, and it ended up with 20 tons of space left at the end (mainly due to needing only 22 tons of fuel instead of 40). But it cost a non-discounted 41.8 MCr (at TL 11, dropping to 29.8 by TL 15 due to falling power plant costs) instead of the 31.7 using non-discounted B2 pricing.

A problem with a limit of TL 12 for B2 is that B2 uses drive tech levels all the way through TL 15, though they are used differently than in B5* and are listed in Book 3. B3 shows this on p. 15, where drives A-D are available at TL 9, up through V-Z at TL 15.

*B5 has a straight drive jump/TL limit on p. 23 while B2's jump rating is an interaction of drive letter and tonnage, with a jump limit based on the ship's computer. Thus, a maximum of jump 3 is possible with a TL 9 Model 3, jump 4 with a TL 10 Model 4, etc. B5 also has this jump computer limit, but its p. 23 jump drive limit is more restrictive.


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Wendell (IMTU tc++ tm !tn !t4 !tg ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt- au ls+ he)

 

[Takei]

I've also got no problem using B2 designs. In fact, they work well for character ships as one way to eat up their cash is upgrading various ship components. "OK, so we spend MCrX buying a custom (B5) Power Plant, but it uses a lot less fuel which gives us more cargo space to make more money!"

If you want to get really Munchkin about it then some B2 systems are better to use in some B5 designs. M Drive is one that springs to mind.

After all my babbling, I don't set a TL limit on B2 designs.

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Paul

 

[samdx]

That always frustrated the heck out of me, so I just dropped B2 altogether and redesigned all of the standard ships using HG. The only one ship where that made a big enough difference where the deck plans were unsable was the scout, and, IIRC, I just made the ship capable of two jump 2s and made part of the drive section fuel.

 

[Takei]

A couple of years ago I went through and checked all of the B2 designs. My original LBBs were 1st edition and I found a couple of differences in the 2nd ed. drive table. No major changes, although the Type-R went up to 225 tons of cargo.

I had a great time designing ships just using B2.

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Paul

 

[GypsyComet]

B2 is a pain to use if your edition is old enough (like mine). I don't recall ever looking at a late editon Book 2, so y'all may have it much easier than I did back before High Guard...

 

[Takei]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GypsyComet:
B2 is a pain to use if your edition is old enough (like mine). I don't recall ever looking at a late editon Book 2, so y'all may have it much easier than I did back before High Guard...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't recall having any problems using either editions of B2. The easiest version was in Starter Traveller as there was a seperate volume of tables and everything you need for ship design was on two pages.

In fact, the Tables & Charts book from Starter is all you really need to use once you know the rules.

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Paul

 

[Vargas]

As an aside, what were the books and such included in Starter Traveller? As I got both the 1977 and 1981 versions of the LBBS, i never popped for ST. Thanks.

 

[soloprobe]

Book two barely served its purpose... You can Build a ship from the ground up. You could even take it into combat. Book two's combat system was easy to learn and to implement. Book two tried to contain too much info in too small a book......High guard had a more extensive ship building rules, but the combat system was the WORST I'd ever seen..I ended up using book two combat rules for High guard designed ships..

 

[WendellM]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>High guard had a more extensive ship building rules, but the combat system was the WORST I'd ever seen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh, glad I'm not the only one who felt that way. B5:HG's combat and damage rules are OK for battles between large groups of big ships (their intended purpose) since they're fast-paced and simple. But, they're lacking in detail for smaller forces/ships compared to what else we were playing when HG came out such as Starfire, Star Fleet Battles, and even, as you mention, Book 2. I bought MegaTraveller recently, hoping to find (among other things) an improved ship combat system, but unfortunately its damage system is HG's and its movement system is just wrong. So, I still use a mix of B2/Mayday* movement, HG damage for big ships, and B2 damage for small ships.

*Speaking of fast-paced and simple - Mayday's damage rules make HG's look elaborate and detailed!

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Wendell (IMTU tc++ tm !tn !t4 !tg ru+ ge+ 3i+ c+ jt- au ls+ he)

 

[GypsyComet]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Takei:
I don't recall having any problems using either editions of B2. The easiest version was in Starter Traveller as there was a seperate volume of tables and everything you need for ship design was on two pages.

In fact, the Tables & Charts book from Starter is all you really need to use once you know the rules.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which means you might actually have ALL the rules. My edition (1977) was, in retrospect, missing chunks that had to be infered or deciphered for grammar before use. I rediscoverd this while researching the original Type C a year or so back...

 

[Takei]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vargas:
As an aside, what were the books and such included in Starter Traveller? As I got both the 1977 and 1981 versions of the LBBS, i never popped for ST. Thanks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Starter Traveller was an 8.5 x 11 inch boxed set containing:

Rules Booklet. A 64 page booklet essentially similar to the Traveller Book, also with much the same art, but minus the charts and tables. (Which is to say, much the same as the 1981 LBB books 1-3 rules with art).

Charts and Tables. A 24 page booklet containing (surprise surprise) all the charts and tables missing from the rules booklet. No art apart from the travel times diagram. The inside front cover has TAS Form 2 (character sheet) and the back cover has TAS Form 6 (subsector grid map). You can easily run CT games just using this booklet as long as you don't want anything not in books 1-3.

Double Adventure booklet. A 16 page double adventure (Mission on Mithril/Shadows)

Double Sided Map. Mithril planetary map and the Shadows site aerial view.

I've also got a copy of Deluxe Traveller in the same format (instead of the large box with LBBs format). This basically removes the text on the back of the box talking about abridged rules and adds Book 0, Imperial Fringe (the Introductory Adventure) and the Spinward Marches poster map.

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Paul

 

[Vargas]

Was a lot of art from Starter Traveller recycled for MT? (I really only saw the Traveller Book in passing a couple of times and knew I already had the material).

 

[Takei]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vargas:
Was a lot of art from Starter Traveller recycled for MT? (I really only saw the Traveller Book in passing a couple of times and knew I already had the material).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Haven't got MT in front of me right now, but IIRC there wasn't much (if any) carry over. I must admit to liking the MT art more.

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Paul

 

[kafka47]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vargas:
Was a lot of art from Starter Traveller recycled for MT? (I really only saw the Traveller Book in passing a couple of times and knew I already had the material).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


No the art in MT was fairly new. Having said that, there were some carry overs but generally one could say the style of art remained the same. There was no radical departures in Traveller art until T4 and GT. Unlike, Challenge magazine which seemed to undergo a metaphorsis from Traveller-like art or excellent pencil shadings to something really weird, especially when it came to the colour prints. Notwithstanding some nice covers splashed in the whole run.