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Beowulf doodle feedback requested


SOC-14 10K
Just looking for some feedback from a wider audience that should be less biased than local friends. Comments, suggestions, whatever, of the following sample from my deckplans for the Beowulf class Free-Trader. It's based off the old mini so that explains some of the differences from the usual layout. The forward mounted dorsal hardpoint location for example. If you can find it ;) It's the quarter circle with the radial rake to aft at the front of the upper passenger deck show on the left side of the pic.

The left side is an external view of the dorsal hull and the right side is half of the lower deck showing the cargo air-lock and loading ramp.

Some of the features are comprimises to fit the correct tonnage and jive with the mini while still trying to maintain the basic layout of previous deckplans (primarily SOM), and of course to add a little* interest to the old boy

* very little perhaps ;)

Thanks in advance. This post subject to spontaneous deletion ;)

hmm, half a tic, that didn't work, link repair in progress...

...there, that's better

Direct link in case embedded image doesn't load:

Beowulf sample
Yes I'm not making it easy am I
I didn't want to give the whole thing away, not yet at least. Guess I'm looking for a "style" critique as much as anything. Like is it too plain? I know it's tough to make much of what little is there
Especially without some description. Perhaps I'll have to add to it if I want much in the way of comments.
Nice, clean lines.

Now show us the insides, and a side view, and a 3d model, and an animation, and a movie... ;)

Ok, I'll settle for the deck plan to start
Not bad at all. I like how you've kept the basic look of the earlier plans/views, but got them to fit in a real 200t hull.
Originally posted by flykiller:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Like is it too plain?
if you're doing it for visual interest, then yes, it's far too plain. if you're doing it for use in a game, then it's fine. </font>[/QUOTE]Yep what I'm shooting for is mostly an imagination kick start and game map idea. Kept plain to ease use and printing and not be too cluttered at the size shown. A fig scale version could be prettied up with more graphic interest but at this scale (page size with notes, 1/4 inch squares) it just looks cluttered.

Basically I'm wondering what would people (as player and referee) like in a deckplan package, style wise?

1 - Simple lines like the old CT deckplan style with no features?

2 - Something like that but with some minimal details, like stateroom features (beds, fresher, etc.) and such. That's the level I'm aiming at with the above?

3 - More like Bryan Gibson's or Hunter's recent Type-S deckplans with more line art style features and shadings?

4 - Or photo-relistic style like Scarecrow's full color renderings?

I might poll this later when I think of a couple more questions but feel free to post a quick reply here with a vote.

Additionally, how important is a fig scale deckplan anyway? And what style would players and referees want in that? Would a mostly blank layout be better to allow easier printing and customization of the interior? I'm thinking something along the lines of a deckplan with "hard-features" like the hull, bulkheads, drives and required items, with seperate pages of "soft-features" like partition walls, furnishings, stateroom components and such. You would cut and paste either in the program (if I got that ambitious ;) ) or with the printouts to put together your layout.
Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Nice, clean lines.

Now show us the insides, and a side view, and a 3d model, and an animation, and a movie... ;)

Ok, I'll settle for the deck plan to start

Well, the insides I have some line art of but it's "stolen" and edited so I can't share it. I may also do it up as a game map for an old fps and take some screenshots, not soon though.

The side view is still not ready for prime time, working out the angles and such to fit the profile.

3D model, I'd love to but my talents there are limited to block work. Very cubist but not very useful beyond a general volume idea.

Movie, again not much talent, needing the 3D and graphic arts skills, though I might do a walkthrough with the fps if I get around to that.

So mostly yeah, it's just going to be a deckplan in the near future.
Thanks for the encouragement Oz, Andrew and Les S.

Let me also welcome you aboard Les S :D

Les, when you say more internal detail please do you mean seeing the rest of the plan or just more detail than the level shown? I might have chosen a poor deck for showing much in the way of features, being mostly an empty cargo hold
Just plain CT-style is fine for me.

How about a Photoshop .psd file, with furniture etc on different layers, so you can select what you want to see?
So, I would vote for number three (3 - More like Bryan Gibson's or Hunter's recent Type-S deckplans with more line art style features and shadings?). It would help if I knew where to find 'Scarecrow' or Bryan Gibson, or their work?
I'd go for version 2, simple fixtures for low ink versions. Very nice indeed. Been working on something along these lines for the CT style Type S, using Flash so you can print out with different fixtures, somewhat like my Character Artwork generator.

In fact, I've been toying with the idea for a deckplan creator (within certain limits) in flash after the CAG is finished. Maybe we should bump heads sometime in the future?
I've reviewed it. I'll make several comments.

1) If you're going to do it, do level 2. It is still useful in a game. If find some classic CT plans dont' show internal detail and thus aren't as useful. Showing where berths, desks, etc. are gives some utility. Really though, if you made one of level 1, then added the detail for level 2, you could release both.

2) I'm not a fan of colour on these. Honestly, I'm not trying to distract my players from the game. Stuff like colour tends to do that - it sometimes visually confuses the situation. You want to see the player's miniatures (and hostiles) clearly in this kind of setup. (YMMV)

3) I'd love to see Scarecrow style renders... but ONLY if you can do at least as well as MadDog's renders and ideally (in a fantasy world, since not everyone is a professional CGI artist like Scarecrow) as good as the Crow. What I'm getting at here is to feel 'sharp', they need to be done well. Now, maybe you can draw on some of the folks who are pros to help critique and amend initial versions up to a high standard on the final product.

I think Scarecrow should bleedin' well be hired to do interiors of ANY ship players are meant to play on. His renders are like the interior line art pics of ship stations in SOM brought live, since they include details as funky as views out of staterooms into space, reflections of light off of glass and other reflective surfaces, very interesting lighting, practical design, etc. It is *very* tough to match that level. But yeah, if you come even close, you can show a player and they can *feel* that they are in that scene. Ideally one render for each key locale, just like SOM did.

I too would like inside plans and outside plans.

One thought: Inside plans a la CT plain on one page. Another page with the outline and all the beds, workstations etc at exactly the same size. Idea: You would print out the first page on paper or cardstock, and the second on a laser or inkjet transparency as an overlay. Thus you can have or not have interior detail.

Of course, just producing a level 1 and then a level 2 version ought to be easy and both can be made available.

I like the design except I'm dubious about what looks like one of the thruster cones at the rear. It looks like a *really small* unit on the bottom right. Unless that's an airlock?

The idea of doing a proper 200 ton design following the old model is fantastic though. I actually have several of them. I found someone either making knockoffs or who had access to the original moulds some time ago, and purchased just about one or two of every traveller ship. I think I have 4 Type As.

I did a design for a fast high priority armed cargo transport on a 300 ton hull. I found crew space *cramped* to say the least to get a decent bit of jump engine and a high G M drive in there along with some cargo, lots of fuel (to drive the ridiculous fuel requirements of an MT masking system for that powerful of a ship), etc. It really does have the 'submarine' feel.

Keep up the good work, keep us posted.
Yes, my links weren't handy when typing earlier. They are both Citizens of course and Bryan used to have a deckplan of the T20 Scout/Courier on CotI a while back. But the art pages are gone and he doesn't have it up on his site. The style was similar to Hunter's recent version iirc. You can look at Bryan's other art here:

Bryan's Art Pages

And Scarecrow's work is found here:

Scarecrow's Art

...click the RPG link in the menu on the left but be warned, once you see his deckplans you may never be satisfied with less ;) Nothing against anybody else's work, I like most of it fine, Crow's is just a different style and for beauty hard to match.
Edited the sample a little after playing with the profile and finding some tight spaces. Actually "works" better in some ways and not so nice in others. Feels more purpose built and less convenient/comfy. Most of that is in areas off the sample though
I know, I'm a huge tease ;)