Battlestar Galactica and Traveller

[Blue Ghost]

I am not much of a necromancer, so I am not sure this has been discussed before.

That said, has anyone figured a way to construct a BG campaign using a Traveller ruleset? If so, can you supply a pointer?

Not I, but I did rediscover my DVD collection of the 1978 TV series. Looking at it with mature eyes it sure does feel like a kids' show. Not a bad thing, but I never connected with it much, and I think that's probably why BSG never cropped up in any of our Traveller sessions.

I would think that if you wanted to run a BSG game, then all you'd need to do is to create the BSG itself; a carrier with oodles of fighters, and attach a bunch of of smaller civvies trailing behind her.

The story for the old 78 series was kind of interesting, and the show itself was actually well scripted, but, like I said, it really feels like it was aimed at pre-teens. I can see why it was cancelled now, viewing it with adult eyes.

 

[savage]

The series

Considering the size of this monster the crew of about 5.000 members seems kind of small to me compares with the more then 5.500 (crew and flight-personell) on the USS Nimitz...
Liam

I put the T20 numbers together for nBG based on some of the information stated. My oBG from my game was about 235k close to Aramis' lower end statistics. At 1.5Mdt the new nBG would have a crew of 16-18,000. In the new series it clearly states that nBG had 2,000 people on board. It looked pretty crowded during the decommissioning ceremony. And even more crowded after the battle began before meeting the "ragtag fleet". Adama tells the president that all 40,000 in the fleet would need to stay at the station while Galactica fought the enemy. It was impossible to put them on Galactica based on space. Munitions...they loaded the ship from Ragnar with as much as possible.

Thinking thought a couple alternatives there are ways to make nBG bigger if one really wants it. The idea of unused space on nBG does not work well because, at various points they mention the crowding on the fleet.

The Gurps numbers 6-10Mdt would be excessive for an intermixed universe.

 

[BytePro]

Galactica was my reason for buying HG back in the early 80's!

Possibly useful website for OP - http://www.tecr.com/galactica/capships/battlestar.htm.
The previously mentioned wiki has some schematic sceen captures from a 'fire' episode.

Of course, I made it 1 mega-dtons and then tried to map out deckplans on architectural D sized Mylar sheets! LOL (yeah - never finished that one!)
Unfortunately, I had nothing to scan that with - so that work is long lost (I remember coming up with dimensions and dTons ).

Battlestar dimensions -

The shows producer, Glen A. Larson, and the effects supervisor, John Dykstra, both are purportedly quoted as giving a length of about 1 nautical mile - as Aramis alluded to earlier (original laser disc commentary gave the same, IIRC).

Suspect the commonly cited 2000' size comes from a 1/3 scaled rigging model of a larger scaled model, or simply someone mistaking (such as yards for feet). With the advent of the new series, the 4,150-odd foot length is commonly cited for the original - probably based off Todd Boyce's efforts (http://ravensbranch.allen.com/galacticasize.html). But this seems largely based off of a composite shot of a really tiny painting and a viper model! The model was probably to some scale, while the matte was just what looked good to the artist. (http://www.galactica.tv/images/stories/gallery/probert/andrew-probert-04.jpg)

I like this take the best - http://taraniscgi.wordpress.com/2012/02/21/battlestar-galactica-tos-how-big-is-it/.

If I get ahold of a decent 3D model, might make a HG design to match...​

 

[savage]

Galactica was my reason for buying HG back in the early 80's!

Possibly useful website for OP - http://www.tecr.com/galactica/capships/battlestar.htm.

Battlestar dimensions -

The shows producer, Glen A. Larson, and the effects supervisor, John Dykstra, both are purportedly quoted as giving a length of about 1 nautical mile - as Aramis alluded to earlier (original laser disc commentary gave the same, IIRC).

Suspect the commonly cited 2000' size comes from a 1/3 scaled rigging model of a larger scaled model, or simply someone mistaking (such as yards for feet).
I like this take the best - http://taraniscgi.wordpress.com/2012/02/21/battlestar-galactica-tos-how-big-is-it/.

If I get ahold of a decent 3D model, might make a HG design to match...​

The Wordpress site is interesting. Had not seen that but it supports my theory of a far less than a mile design. However, 2000ft is .378378miles. And there we're several episodes where a second person flew in the Vipers behind the pilot.

I did this one about 10 years ago with less information (mostly Starlog and probably the tecr.com site). Crew size is still high. I did the T20 version, on my game site as well, with the FFS1 dual spinal mounts which are fun.
http://www.angelfire.com/empire2/sa...-Media-Designs/battlestar_Columbia_class.html

Also note that in the nBG series we are told that there are 120 Battlestars probably of various types!

 

[BytePro]

The Wordpress site is interesting. Had not seen that but it supports my theory of a far less than a mile design.

Huh?

It explicitly backs the idea of the Galactica being a mile long.

 

[savage]

details

Huh?

It explicitly backs the idea of the Galactica being a mile long.

Pardon the missing reference point. I was referring to the Battlestar Galactica Annual by Grandreams. I did this 10 years ago before all of this analysis.
"Here it is, now if you will read down to the length which is set at 0.264 miles or 2000ft."
Also they uses nautical miles not statutes miles. (.329158 nmi)

I took the rest of it as a yet another view point on Galactica. Hollywood wanted a big ship but not the model planning. A 6000 ft ship with a 500 person crew. They didn't want extras on set either. The original production was hitting a million dollars an episode. Scifi was expensive.

The size comparison he did is fun but not the best. It seems to depend heavily on the fighter bays. What is important, I'd argue, is that finding the version that fits best in the Traveller universe vs other traveller vessels.

 

[BytePro]

Yeah, the Battlestar Galactica Annual by Grandreams is obviously blatantly wrong - a nautical mile being just over 1.15 statue miles, not less than a 1/3rd the length!

With published figures so wrong, people tried to adjust using screen captures and model kits. The closeup shots of the launch bays and model vipers are the best for screen captures, but are what confuse the issue - since they are done for visual effect, maintaining scale was less important and perspective distortion also comes into play.

The fighter bay sizes have official dimensions from the blueprints for the full scale studio mockups and can be verified directly from pictures of the studio models. The studio scale model of the Galactica had the tube openings at a certain size (measurable direct from photos - and reproduced my many model makers). Together, these match the quoted nautical mile length from the guys in charge. While I could see the producer just rattling off a number, the SFX supervisor, not so much.

For Traveller, all that matters is the elements in play, of course. We don't actually get dimensions mentioned in the shows, so no need to even use them in a game, unless one wants deckplans for miniatures, or something.

 

[savage]

the size of galactica

Yeah, the Battlestar Galactica Annual by Grandreams is obviously blatantly wrong - a nautical mile being just over 1.15 statue miles, not less than a 1/3rd the length!
Together, these match the quoted nautical mile length from the guys in charge. While I could see the producer just rattling off a number, the SFX supervisor, not so much.

For Traveller, all that matters is the elements in play, of course. We don't actually get dimensions mentioned in the shows, so no need to even use them in a game, unless one wants deckplans for miniatures, or something.

Well said! I've worked with the hollywood types. Take it all with a grain of salt. It's like the Enterprise never having a toilet and Firefly having one just to show they exist! :rofl:
When they did oBG, they did not think we'd try to figure all of this out. They wanted bigger than a 1970s aircraft carrier of Trek's Enterprise.

I put a note out on the site for the person doing the analysis. It would be interesting to get a closer look at the models and compare it with the TV show. The other point is integration. If you want to integrate into Traveller then the size needs to change. If you create a BG specific universe the size can stay the huge!
I like the 2nmi battlestar model It looks fun. But i think the 2-4000ft are closer to a traveller need.

 

[BytePro]

Yeah - my attempt in the '80s was to make it fit in 1 million dtons.

I want to say I had used a length more around a 1/4 mile - though I thought the Galactica was one to three miles long back then (as a kid and long before the internet speculation).

There are some really great CGI models out there - I recall one with the space shuttle nose to bridge window to gauge scale. He preferred 2+ mile, but the 1 mile looked correct to me when he added a to scale astronaut. He may have been comparing to the studio bridge mockup, however, which could very well be way out of scale compared to the Galactica model.

Like the Firefly - which had a very extensive studio set - Galactica suffers from external/internal scale inconsistencies. Also, its amazing to me that Hollywood has yet to capitalize on selling off sets, rather than paying to demolishing them. Especially movie sets. I bet they could have gotten a million plus for large portions of the LOTR and Star Wars sets, for example.

 

[savage]

Movie Sets

SCIFI channel tried to sell a tie fighter and Rapter as part of their auctions. It failed and a larger props company cut a deal. Where would people put it! I picked up a few smaller pieces but those big items don't go well because no one has a place to keep them.

There was a plan to build a full-size Enterprise in Las Vegas but it went under due to the great speculation involved in such an undertaking.

There is a lot of theme park potential for this stuff which Universal, Disney and the others try to leverage. Universal and Hilton had the Vegas Star Trek wing for long time before the Star Trek material was moved downtown. Props can always be seen on the lots. Now of course, Planet Hollywood also buys props.

In downtown Hollywood there is (or was) a museum near the chinese theater. I believe it had the original enterprise bridge.

Now these guys are doing a much better job documenting the sets...but still. Its all Hollywood. :smirk:

Incidentally, The original Jupiter2 would sit in the backlot in the 1960. They did sell off consoles. The Chariot went back to plowing snow at Big Bear...:rofl: Then ended up in pieces.

Back to BG:
I may have to redesign my BG and adopt a slightly larger version. I believe that a few changes to the ship physically we're acceptable for playability. I mean adjust angles of the fighter tubes, and some exterior look.

 

[Darkwing]

I don"t see it as necessary to change the size for Traveller. They're Humans from somewhere other than the 3I, and have different construction standards. Simply assume they build waaaaay over-engineered ships, since they use them for centuries, and much of the extra space is not useful volume, but structural support. The books referred to centuries of ship life, and refits to upgrade tech from time to time. So multiply engine volumes, structural volumes, etc, to design it to scale.

 

[BytePro]

More capacitors and fuel.

 

[savage]

let it be bigger "food for thought"

That is what i did when i aimed for a 1.5mdt version. :rofl:

It is a lotta water, fuel, capacitors. I have a version just over .25 mdt which has the same basics. However, it is the population of the crew that i pointed to in an earlier message as the problem. We're talking 18000...not the 2k mentioned on nBG in the first episode. It becomes a different ship.

That is why I said rules need to be established for a BG only universe or allowances made for differences. 10 years ago I decided it would be slightly smaller because i wanted to use some FFSv1 rules but not a significant change.

One home rule i like using is ships troops vs maintenance crew serving dual functions. This is plausible if a marine unit is also available or extra staff.

Now BG, automation to remove service crew or troops is not an answer. BG clearly liked networking but not robots (R2D2, Hewey, Dewey...or DRDs (Diagnostic Repair Drones)). And Galactica does not even like networking.

 

[BytePro]

Ack - why would you use HG guidelines for crew - they don't really work well anyway.

Honestly, I always ignored them, so they don't even enter my radar. BG crew is more like 760 or something, IIRC - with 2,000 as part of the 'exodus'? As a multi-role Battlestar, I presume it is setup to handle troop transport (allowing for those excess numbers) and their gear. So it can have plenty of accommodations - the tiny number is just 'listed' crew. I also expect to accommodate long duration operations, so consumables would eat up a lot of additional dtons, just like fuel and water.

Another option most people neglect to consider - take HG dtons as minimums.

 

[savage]

systems...well...

why would you use HG guidelines for crew - they don't really work well anyway.

Honestly, I always ignored them, so they don't even enter my radar. BG crew is more like 760 or something, IIRC - with 2,000 as part of the 'exodus'? As a multi-role Battlestar, I presume it is setup to handle troop transport (allowing for those excess numbers) and their gear. So it can have plenty of accommodations - the tiny number is just 'listed' crew. I also expect to accommodate long duration operations, so consumables would eat up a lot of additional dtons, just like fuel and water.

Another option most people neglect to consider - take HG dtons as minimums.

My designs are for oBG although I have a T20 1.5mdt design with 18k crew for nBG. Pardon the missing details. Didn't run it through HG yet.

For a ship to be OTU it needs to follow the basics. Many rules can be bent and I do bend many rules. I'm open minded about it. I can always rename the 235k ships as Battlestar cruisers and move on...
I believe the majority of visitors left and later returned to Galactica. They had already made adjustments to turn Galactica into a museum, by adjusting one flight deck for the commemoration and removed ammo. Otherwise, it looked ready to tangle. Amusing that when it was older they stopped jumping the ship.

 

[BytePro]

Ah, the OP was looking for a BG Campaign - so I wasn't thinking OTU.

Of course I'd hazard a guess than many OTU designs don't actually follow the rules, either.