"Back-dating" Worlds

[daryen]

The problem is that the definition of an E starport has varied over time.

To get at the core of the issue, let's take a barren, unpopulated world outside any interstellar polity. Maybe it hasn't even been properly explored yet. Let's say its UWP is x600000-0 with a pop multiplier of 0.

Should its starport be listed as "E" or "X"?

Originally, I believe most people would have given it a starport of "X", but not made it a Red Zone. (It's not a Red Zone because no one cares.)

However, over time, it has been stated by Mr. Miller that such a world is to have a starport of "E". So, now a world with a starport of "X" is specifically reserved for those worlds that are Red Zones.

 

[Psion]

Hmmm. In canonical data, not all imperial X starport worlds are red zones (at least not in the 993 data).

And there are X and E extra imperial worlds, where red zone is largely irrelevant.

I have always understood (and recall in whatever editions I have played) E to mean minimal provisions (e.g., a surveyed flat spot, possibly with markers), and X is no provisions.

 

[mike wightman]

Here's a trivia question for you, when were Colour Coded Travel zones first introduced into Traveller canon?

 

[Psion]

(Wild Stab) Kinunir?

 

[mike wightman]

Trivia aside, X starports and red zones are not synonymous. They are something of a catch 22 situation IMHO.

Within the Imperium most worlds with X starports are rated as red zones, but red zones are also granted to worlds with starports.
Let's face it, if a world within the Imperium has resources and a population there has to be a very good reason to red zone it.
Any ship travelling to a red zone had better find out why it's been red zoned and is it interdicted by the Navy or Scout service

 

[mike wightman]

Originally posted by Psion:
(Wild Stab) Kinunir?

That or Journal 1, whichever was published first

 

[Psion]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Let's face it, if a world within the Imperium has resources and a population there has to be a very good reason to red zone it.
Any ship travelling to a red zone had better find out why it's been red zoned and is it interdicted by the Navy or Scout service

Moties!

 

[Flynn]

I looked over the program in Basic that Marc W. Miller wrote himself for sector generation (Challenge #26), and in his code, it is POPULATED worlds (aka Pop>0) with X-class starports that are Red Zones.

Knowing that the code should reflect his thought patterns, since he wrote it himself, that's why I quote it as MWM's canon.

Hope that helps,
Flynn

 

[mike wightman]

Shame it's not in any of the paper versions of system design, they always leave it up to the referee to determine travel zones (unless I've missed something somewhere, which is a possibility ).

 

[daryen]

The other problem is that Mr. Miller's ideas have changed over time. In counterpoint to Flynn's example, there is the interview he gave to the author of the Core Route Project. In the interview, he stated that unpopulated worlds should be given a starport of E, as X is reserved for intentionally restricted worlds.

Unfortunately, I have long forgotten the URL for the Core Route Project.

 

[mike wightman]

Ignore that last post of mine, I've found it in black and white (well, grey ).
There is a table for allocating travel zones based on government type and law level in...
TNE
It still says that most X starports are red zones though

 

[mike wightman]

And daryen, here's the link to the core route projects

The interview is in the FAQ in part 1.

 

[chrisr]

I think the easiest way to 'backdate' a sector would be to reroll all of the socio-political data ie. Pop, Gov, Law, Tech level and starport too. Perhaps with a maximum change based on how many hundreds of years have elapsed and maybe maximum sustainable populations based on atmosphere and TL.

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by daryen:
...this isn't for a specific campaign.

But this needs to be more organized, and I do have to cover all 400+ worlds of a sector.

Which sector? If it's the Spinward Marches then I've already done the Regina subsector and intend to do the other 15 eventually.

While I can hand modify all of them (yes, I can be that stupid), there would be too much of "me" in it. Better instead to have a random process that gives a result which I can then go through and adjust as necessary. Most will likely be "just a UWP" before and after the transformation, so a random process should be good enough.

I have to disagree with that, unless you plan to go over the results of the random process and hand modify the results that don't make sense. Like fire, random generation is a good servant but a terrible master. Unvetted random UWPs are much more trouble than they're worth. IMNSHO, of course.


Hans

 

[daryen]

Originally posted by rancke:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by daryen:
...this isn't for a specific campaign.

But this needs to be more organized, and I do have to cover all 400+ worlds of a sector.

Which sector? If it's the Spinward Marches then I've already done the Regina subsector and intend to do the other 15 eventually.</font>[/QUOTE]It's the whole Domain of Deneb. I will need to take all four subsectors backwards from 1112 to 993.

I have the various allegiance codes. I also have the various notes from Supp3 and the Adventures for some of the other worlds (like the nuclear war on Asmodeus and the civil war on Joyeuse).

I just need a process for 95% of worlds that are "just there".

I have to disagree with that, unless you plan to go over the results of the random process and hand modify the results that don't make sense. Like fire, random generation is a good servant but a terrible master. Unvetted random UWPs are much more trouble than they're worth.

To me, the random process is a starting point, not an ending point. But I still need that starting point, or I end up putting too much of "me" into the results. I don't want that.

My process for random regeneration:
- Before anything, know what is going on in a general, as far as the sector and domain are concerned.
- Do the random generation.
- Throw out the results for important worlds, and just assign them what they need.**
- Go over the rest.
- If the result contradicts what should happen, change it.
- If the result gives an interesting story, use it.

** I will let the results sway me if I am ambivalent about what is needed. For example, if a world can lose a TL or not, I will probably just go with what the random process resulted in, but reset the rest of the UWP. But I already know Regina is going to be A788899-A in 993. Likewise, Darrian is going to be A463955-G like it was before 993, is in 993, is in 1112, is in 1202, and will be in 1248.

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by daryen:
But I already know Regina is going to be A788899-A in 993.

Is this for an official T20 publication? If so, I'd like to try to persuade you that Regina was TL C in 993 (and, in fact, has been TL C for most of its history). I much prefer to think of the change from A to C to have been an errata rather than believing that Regina jumped two tech levels in four years.


Hans

 

[daryen]

Hans,

I completely agree that Regina was TL C in 1112 (all the way back to at least 1100). I am talking about 993, which is 119 years earlier.

So, I am suggesting that Regina "jumps" two tech levels in 119 years, not four. Setting it to TL A in 993 is an attempt to bridge the information given.

On a larger issue, just how static is your Imperium? How much TL (or pop, gov, LL) changes should be occuring on Imperial worlds?

 

[Psion]

Nundis jumps 6 tech levels between 993 and 1112.

Something that I am trying to explain in my developing Ley Sector backstory.

 

[rancke]

Originally posted by daryen:
I completely agree that Regina was TL C in 1112 (all the way back to at least 1100). I am talking about 993, which is 119 years earlier.

Oh, I wouldn't dream of suggesting that Regina couldn't have been TL A in 993. If you're engaged in writing Regina up for 993 then you're certainly entitled to do so. I just think it's a better idea not to and would like the opportunty to try to persuade you.

So, I am suggesting that Regina "jumps" two tech levels in 119 years, not four. Setting it to TL A in 993 is an attempt to bridge the information given.

The thing is, Regina was colonized in 75. The colonizers could have come from a TL 9 world or a TL 10 world or a TL 11 world or a 12 world. Nothing in canon says. In my history of the Spinward Marches I've assumed it was a TL 12 world (because I think most colony ventures that made it across Corridor and into the Spinward Marches used jump-3 ships). I also assume that most such colonies (those established out of effective reach of the mother world, what I call Type III colonies) tend to lose a lot of their technology, but that Regina was the exception, and that that is the reason that it is the center of a cluster of worlds as early as 250. So I have Regina at TL 12 from its inception.

Note that even if you make Regina TL 10 in 993 (which I agree would make its progress between 993 and 1105 more plausible) you still run into the problem of the long stagnation (TL A for 8 centuries or so). That's not really any better than TL 12 for 10 centuries, is it? And if you want Regina to be a serious player in 250 and during the Civil War (Which I do), TL 12 is better than TL 10.

On a larger issue, just how static is your Imperium? How much TL (or pop, gov, LL) changes should be occuring on Imperial worlds?

Well, more static than I really like. But considering that the Spinnward Marches were colonised a millenium ago by a TL 12 civilization, I don't quite see how one can get around it. I usually let Type III colonies decline to around TL 5-6-7 and then recover up towards what they are in 1105. Some I let decivilize and lose even more, some I let keep at least interstellar technology. It mostly depends on what the world looks like in 1105.


Hans

 

[daryen]

What is/was Nundis's population level?

If a population is Lo or if the population digit (not the multiplier) increases, then just about any TL adjustment is defensible. In the first case, the infrastructure is easier to replace, especially if done wholesale (with a correspondingly large TL change). In the second case, the newcomers completely overwhelm the previous population.