Anyone used OpenRPG for Traveller?

[DElrick]

Has anyone used OpenRPG to run an online Traveller game (or anything else, for that matter)?

I've been looking into it because my group can't all get to a central location to play (some of them live at the wrong end of the country for a start) and I wondered if anyone else had used it and could either recommend it or warn me off...

Thanks

David

 

[Berg]

I haven't used Open Rpg but, I have used GRiP

The Players Mod is Free

and there is a 60 Day Trial for the Ref's Module.

 

[BetterThanLife]

I looked at OpenRPG. When I asked questions on how difficult it would be to set it up to play T20 I was met with no help. I have used GRIp to play T20, but now use and definitely prefer Klooge. The main problem I saw with Open RPG is the player software isn't free and if I bought it but the player left the game I lost my money. Klooge the player or the Referee has to buy licenses for each player that is playing, but if the referee purchases the licenses and the player leaves the Ref still has the licenses.

I started the online RPG with GRiP (after an abortive attempt with ScreenMonkey). It will do the job and has some features that I like but I don't recommend the traveller boxed ed, and the constant tab flipping was driving me up the flipping wall.

Both Grip and Klooge will do the job for you. The main differences are whether your campaign will be graphic intensive, and whether you will need manufacturer's support of the software. (Like added features.) For more intense graphics, better mapping tools and outstanding customer support, go with Klooge.

For a lower price, great, diverse character sheets (The NPC sheet is not the same as the PC sheet, in fact can't be, which is both a curse and a blessing) and better scripting control then go with GRiP. However GRiP has seen no development in over 3 years and, IMHO, is in need of a bug fix version. The "Additional Software" in the Traveller edition is a definite waste of money. (The only use for it is the starship tiles, everything else is too buggy to use.)

Berg, has modified and improved my GRiP T20 character sheet, I have the T20 Klooge definition available.

Now that is T20. Nobody has done a CT version of Klooge yet, and a MegaTraveller version was in the works but I don't know if it was ever finished. GRiP Plays CT virtually as soon as you download it.

I have asked for help and opinions here, and Tom (Berg) is the only real answer I got on any live online RPG playing. It appears that unless you want to go into uncharted waters you are pretty much going to want to go with Klooge or Grip.

 

[BetterThanLife]

BTW if you want to see how Klooge plays, you are welcome to play, even if it is a bit part, or just observe my T20 Klooge Campaign. We play every Wednesday evening.
Bruce

 

[Maladominus]

Originally posted by Bhoins:

Both Grip and Klooge will do the job for you. The main differences are whether your campaign will be graphic intensive, and whether you will need manufacturer's support of the software. (Like added features.) For more intense graphics, better mapping tools and outstanding customer support, go with Klooge.

A very good assessment, Bhoins.

GRIP is a good choice IF the online campaign is not very graphics intensive. The reason is this. A graphic intensive game means that the GM in GRIP is forced to flip thru the numerous tab-window views... like going back and forth looking at the GRIP map, then going back to look at the Chat window, then going back to another window to manage the NPCs, etc.

I tried a trial version of Klooge... and the interface is definitely more modern. EVERYTHING you need is in a single window, or can be viewed in a cascade of smaller windows.

For right now, I am sticking with GRIP because of some reasons:

#1) GRIP is already CT-friendly. It just is.

#2) GRIP gives you wonderful (scriptable) Character Sheets. No other online RPGing software gives you wonderful custom character sheets like GRIP does. These char sheets make you feel like you're playing Old School tabletop Traveller (or D&D) again.

I hear that Klooge is attempting to do more with its character sheets. I'll give it another try when it catches up to GRIP's level of character sheet sophistication and ease of use.

Below is a screenshot example of the Classic Traveller character sheet tailored for my Traveller campaign.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Actually I found the only shortfall with the Klooge Character sheets is the fact that you only have one. You can't have specific character sheets that differ from the standard character sheets for things like Starships, vehicles or robots. They have to fit into the standard character sheet. Otherwise the character sheet is everybit as customizable as GRiP.

With the latest version of Klooge, the only thing I wish it really had was a more mature dice suite. Things are handled differently but they are still handled well.

(If I could figure out how to add a char sheet I would.

)

One other bonus, is that in the very near future, as soon as I figure out exactly how the D20 version does the job, Klooge will have a script to import a PCGen T20 character sheet into klooge.

One other point in GRiP's favor when it comes to CT. Because CT is so inconsistent with what skill levels do it is easier with GRiP's interface to deal with CT skills in GRiP than it is in Klooge. (Still possible but more difficult.) Also it is easier in Grip to handle the miriad of weapon mods required to deal with CT combat. (Only because it is easier to script individual weapons.) Though it can only deal with the firers end of combat. Klooge will calculate range, AC and will include range bands to target. (Either it does in the latest version or it will in the next. Unfortunately I haven't had time to mess with the latest upgrade and implement the changes.)

With CT GRIP has an edge in less graphics intensive campaigns. (Importing a map is a pain but possible if you are careful, you will never be able to do it on the fly in GRiP.) With T20 Klooge edges GRIP in all but cost. (And if you really want them Starship character sheets.) And if you want to play with graphics then Klooge definitely has a major lead.

Besides the tab flipping, Grip has one other disadvantage that drove me up the wall. To allow a character to log into the system the server has to be in listen mode. While in listen mode only chat works. THough the players can access their sheets the Referee is stuck waiting for the log on or has to lock someone out. Now if everyone is running the latest and greatest OS, with a nice clean Broadband connection (or is on your LAN), this might not be much of a problem. But carrier drop offs, crashes and other problems means that at least twice in a three hour session you will need to drop to listen mode.

OH, one other thing, I misspoke earlier I thought you were looking at Fantasy Grounds. Open RPG is free. I looked at it and was less than impressed and didn't find much in the way of support for creating a new game definition. The Docs were definitely lacking. (Same as most of these packages, however GRIP has a helpful userbase and Klooge has both a helpful userbase and active company suport.) When I saw Fantasy Grounds (Which is where my earlier comments about licensing and unhelpful support, were actually directed.) and Klooge the OpenRPG option went out the window. Klooge won out on graphics, licensing options and helpful support.

Fnatasy Grounds has the neatest dice suite of any of the Online Tabletops though. You actually roll the dice. (If I could have CSML, (GRIP, though with a solid manual on it.) Fantasy Grounds Dice mechanics, Klooge's character sheet, interface, and graphics suite and ScreenMonkey's User interface, and connection simplicity, all in one package, it would be THE online tabletop system.

 

[Berg]

Klooge seems tied to d20, where GRiP is generic (for good or bad). This may change, but to run something else seems like a bit of tweeking. Since GRiP is generic, there is some work to get the Character sheets right and other stuff, but it has a pretty good dice suite (Fudge Dice..oooo!)

For the mapping in GRiP, you import stuff. It's not too hard once you get the hang of it, and make some better tiles for on the fly play, but Klooge does look smoother for that.

Is there a lag for Klooge mapping between moving stuff like on screen monkey?

 

[bosun]

I'm using OpenRPG on a regular basis, so I have no qualms about recommending it for Traveller (I have been playing with the notion of using it to run a game of Traveller myself). While it is true the documentation is poor, it is generally no problem figuring things out with what documentation there is in the program and on the forums.

The die-system is quite flexible and can be used for pretty much any game system. Combat is not automated so it requires a GM to evaluate all rolls and modifiers and apply effects. Which, depending on your style of play, may not matter or be a dealbreaker.

For me, it has everything I need. I suggest you give it a spin and see if it fulfills your needs before looking at one of the for-pay programs.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Actually that isn't a fair assessment. Klooge is definitely game system neutral. Though the example definition is D20 3.0 and therefore is easier to adapt to other D20 based games there is nothing to stop you from doing other definitions. Like GRiP it is pretty much defining the character sheet. Grip is also pretty much Game system neutral but it isn't any easier to adapt than any other system. You have to build a character sheet for what you want to do unless you are playing one of the definitions that already has a character sheet. So from that aspect, unless you want to run a CT campaign, where GRiP has a longer history of mostly stable character sheets, Grip isn't any better at adapting to different game systems than anything else on the list. Now Klooge will run a D20 3.0 campaign out of the box, like GRiP will run a CT game, (if you have one of the CT character sheets) without modification. They still each have their own limitations and quirks.

Originally posted by Berg:
Klooge seems tied to d20, where GRiP is generic (for good or bad). This may change, but to run something else seems like a bit of tweeking. Since GRiP is generic, there is some work to get the Character sheets right and other stuff, but it has a pretty good dice suite (Fudge Dice..oooo!)

For the mapping in GRiP, you import stuff. It's not too hard once you get the hang of it, and make some better tiles for on the fly play, but Klooge does look smoother for that.

Is there a lag for Klooge mapping between moving stuff like on screen monkey?

I have yet to encounter any real lag in Klooge, even with huge maps. Though once you get out of hand with the maps (Get too big) and use lots of too high res icons at the same time, you will run into a little lag or drop a player or two. But that is well beyond normal play. My icons are pngs of 800x800 rendered players, with multiple choices player chosen (ie armed, unarmed, aiming, firing, cutlass drawn, armored, etc.). My Map tends to be in the 1024x768 range. (Again a png.) Infinitely scaleabe. (Well virtually.) as long as I don't get much bigger than that there are no problems. THough when I try to do something stupid, like a readable sector map from a scan or from a pdf I run into problems. Of course in those cases you can't even attempt to get that silly in most of these programs. Send them a copy of the picture, not as a map.

(Though with large files like that GRIP tended to lock up on me when I tried to send those types of pics through grip. If you are using GRIP send them in email. ANd forget the Traveller software with the Spinward Marches Map from the Traveller boxed ed. Stay out of it because it will crash the server everytime.

BTW with nice high res icons, a big map and 50 icons on the map the lag was minimal even with icons linked together for movement and 6 players logged in. (Managing that combat was why we decided to go with a smaller scale campaign.

) THe software handled it but it took too long to set up.

 

[Berg]

Actually that isn't a fair assessment. Klooge is definitely game system neutral. Though the example definition is D20 3.0 and therefore is easier to adapt to other D20 based games there is nothing to stop you from doing other definitions. Like GRiP it is pretty much defining the character sheet.

That's more acurate

Now Klooge will run a D20 3.0 campaign out of the box, like GRiP will run a CT game

That's more like what I meant, that "out of the box", Klooge is toward d20 (which would probably be good for T20 ).

Send them a copy of the picture, not as a map. If you are using GRIP send them in email.

What we have found useful is running an IM, and either sending URL's or using that to send large graphic files. Large sound files haven't been problematic. Maps only for combat

forget the Traveller software from the Traveller boxed ed. Stay out of it because it will crash the server everytime.

It is very buggy and not really worth the extra $$, but if you have it use it seperately, NOT together.

BTW with nice high res icons, a big map and 50 icons on the map the lag was minimal even with icons linked together for movement and 6 players logged in. THe software handled it but it took too long to set up.

The price we pay to play online

Sound like your game is fun, and wouldn't mind seeing how it works. If you need online pics your welcome to use some from my site Mr Bhoins

 

[BetterThanLife]

As an idea of what is possible in Klooge, the character pics on my page are 75% reduced jpg versions of the pngs used for icons. I'll link the mission commander here. The resolution in Klooge is higher. And this is just one icon. (remember we ran a fight with about 20 of these and 30 of lower res icons on the map at once with minimal lag.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Berg:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Actually that isn't a fair assessment. Klooge is definitely game system neutral. Though the example definition is D20 3.0 and therefore is easier to adapt to other D20 based games there is nothing to stop you from doing other definitions. Like GRiP it is pretty much defining the character sheet.

That's more acurate

Now Klooge will run a D20 3.0 campaign out of the box, like GRiP will run a CT game

That's more like what I meant, that "out of the box", Klooge is toward d20 (which would probably be good for T20 ).

Send them a copy of the picture, not as a map. If you are using GRIP send them in email.

What we have found useful is running an IM, and either sending URL's or using that to send large graphic files. Large sound files haven't been problematic. Maps only for combat

forget the Traveller software from the Traveller boxed ed. Stay out of it because it will crash the server everytime.

It is very buggy and not really worth the extra $$, but if you have it use it seperately, NOT together.

BTW with nice high res icons, a big map and 50 icons on the map the lag was minimal even with icons linked together for movement and 6 players logged in. THe software handled it but it took too long to set up.

The price we pay to play online

Sound like your game is fun, and wouldn't mind seeing how it works. If you need online pics your welcome to use some from my site Mr Bhoins </font>[/QUOTE]Thanks. We do have two available licenses currently. We play every Wednesday evening 8PM EDT to 11PM EDT (Approximately.) You can observe or we can find an excuse for another hitchhiker. (Or I can give out the roles of one of the two current hitchhikers.)

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Berg:
Klooge seems tied to d20, where GRiP is generic (for good or bad). This may change, but to run something else seems like a bit of tweeking. Since GRiP is generic, there is some work to get the Character sheets right and other stuff, but it has a pretty good dice suite (Fudge Dice..oooo!)

For the mapping in GRiP, you import stuff. It's not too hard once you get the hang of it, and make some better tiles for on the fly play, but Klooge does look smoother for that.

Is there a lag for Klooge mapping between moving stuff like on screen monkey?

Let me give you an example of what I mean by mapping on the fly. Last week we had a couple of our intrepid adventurers go to town. I rolled an encounter out of 76 patrons. I needed a bar. (I didn't have one.) I grabbed my DMZ (Shadowrun) box, pulled out a bar from there. Threw it on the scanner, scanned it (too high a res the first time.) twice, saved it as a png (they scale better), loaded it into klooge, set the scale (Draw a line on the map and tell Klooge how far that is.) and set the part of the map our characters could see. It actually took longer to type this than it did to actually do it.

BTW I very, quickly gave up on tiles in GRIP, other things provided much better maps and symbols. So forget about tiles in GRIP, just import, with your symbols on it already, your image and go from there, (Graphic formats are more limited so pick a high res image because you are going to zoom on it. Make sure your scale is right as you import it because you don't get a second chance. And lining up the grid lines is easiest at a resolution of 32 pixels per square. But it is doable. Just not in a hurry.

 

[Berg]

If you needed a bar well...

Lots of shooter specials...

 

[BetterThanLife]

Yeah but finding mine was faster and, especially as the server I tend to keep bandwidth use, even with DSL to a minimum during the session. Only thing online on any of the computers is Klooge and my email software. (So a player can email me if they get bounced and can't get back up.) BTW usually the reason someone gets bounced is they are running too much other stuff on their bandwidth. Funny how bounces became less frequent once I asked everyone to reboot right before and run only Klooge during the sessions. (I simultaneously cut the icons to 800 pixels by 800 pixels.) The sample is only 600x600.

 

[DElrick]

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. I ran the game on Saturday night (19:30 to 23:00 GMT) with five players and it worked fine.

The OpenRPG download is free and there didn't seem to be a problem with any of the servers (I noticed they were starting to fill up as we were logging out, suggesting that they get busier during the evening in the US time zones.

I had some problems with the whiteboard at first, but that was just because I was new to it I think and it will come with time.

All in all, a good alternative to face to face play (particularly as some of my players are 400 miles away...).

Thanks again.

David

 

[Berg]

This little freeware project is coming along nicely...

RPTools

 

[Merxiless]

As far as I am aware, OpenRPG software is free. no charge to server host or players. I re-downloaded it last week, on that basis.

As to running games, plusses:

It can load a nice JPG map as a play surface.

Not too hard to use.

supports plug-ins developed by the OpenRPG dev team.

Very nice custom die roll maker, or character sheet maker, that uses XML, or you can use a sort of editor that they have that is part of the actual interface.

problems:

Sometimes a bad connection will have you drop in and out a lot.

Lots of kids in the community there will drop in on an open game and spam you, or try to crash you.

Overall, I give it a B+. I have run Star Wars D6, Traveller CT, and Star Trek games there, with OpenRPG the last few years.

If you decide to go with OpenRPG and need help setting it up, customizing it, etc, please contact me @ Merxiless@yahoo.com.

A traveller game there is badly needed, again, since I departed the community about a year ago, to run a Neverwinter Nights server.

For now, my focus is getting a game going via GRiP, but I am more than willing to help anyone set up Open, as a service to the gaming community as a whole.

Best place to find players, I have found, is RPG Registry.