Any possibility of software???

[Rodrigo]

These topics have been beaten to death, resurrected, and beaten to death again on the PCGen boards and ENWorld. As I recall, the OGL applies to any data the program uses (feats, spells, whatever), and the D20 license that applies to software. Both can come into play.

Things that will get you in trouble are any randomization that determines success/failure or good/bad results, including random hit points, stats, etc.

Also, anything that even suggests the process for creating a character, or automates it. So, for example, a character creation wizard would be out. Even a checklist that says 'Pick race, then do stats, then pick a class' could be trouble. There was a discussion earlier today on the PCGen boards about color-coding sections that hadn't been filled out yet, and that has to get run by WotC for their approval.

And if WotC decides to go after somebody, they don't have to start with you....they could theoretically go to your ISP or any third-pary websites where you promoted your software.

Personally, it ticks me off that they can get away with being so high-handed. Especially since they pretty much ignored the software issue until they shipped the oft-delayed, severely crippled E-tools.

 

[Rodrigo]

Originally posted by xloop:
Why isn't WOTC sending lawyers like locust after them? (No offense to any locust).

They have gone after a number of people. They delivered several C&D's at GenCon. And check the link I posted earlier in this topic -- the guy that did some excellent Star Wars generators (and, btw, was not charging for them) got told to shut down in no uncertain terms.

 

[AndreaV]

Originally posted by Rodrigo:

Personally, it ticks me off that they can get away with being so high-handed. Especially since they pretty much ignored the software issue until they shipped the oft-delayed, severely crippled E-tools.

Aye, well thats the way of the world. WOTC introduced the OGL to boost the sales of the PHB and now they have their own software equivlant, they want to protect it. Ticks me off too though.

 

[wordwildwebb]

Originally posted by xloop:
Stool WOTC couldn't do anything so long as you aren't trying to sell the software. The copyright only protects you from people making money on your original design.

Dangerous and incorrect assumption. But a very common one.

By distributing free software, you are possibly affecting the marketability of software WotC may create in the future, and that constitutes a loss for WotC. No, you might not be making money, but you are in fact potentially loosing them money. Judges tend to be very unforgiving in such cases.

Especially when WotC can point to the generousity they have shown to the community in the form of the d20/OGL.

 

[wordwildwebb]

Originally posted by Rodrigo:

Personally, it ticks me off that they can get away with being so high-handed. Especially since they pretty much ignored the software issue until they shipped the oft-delayed, severely crippled E-tools.

At the risk of instigating a flame war, it IS their intellectual property. I don't think Hunter or Mark would be to happy if someone just printed up a T20 compatible sourcebook on Vargr or Hivers and gave it out free - especially if they are planning such products. Sure we could all say "but they don't have anything available NOW". But it is still their right to do with the property what they see fit.

Look at it this way - without those protections we'd only have fan based stuff because no one would ever make money in this industry... and money is what makes more product in the future.

/Rant off

 

[Rodrigo]

I'm not peeved that they *have* IP rights to the stuff they created. My irritation is a result of WotC's (mostly Hasbro's I suspect) taking the fan base for granted.

If they were committed to fully supporting E-tools it would be one thing, but to release it late, without even a full set of their own content, and then to simultaneous orphan it and try to stifle or co-opt any potential competition is not 'fan friendly.' And trying to prevent competition for a product you may or may not someday offer is just, well, Microsoftian.

These games can be complex; anything that helps bring new people into the game is a positive. And for an industry pretty much %100 reliant on word-of-mouth from existing customers for its growth, they sometimes go out of their way to alienate them. (Maybe its the Curse of TSR

) For example, you're not even allowed to reference a page number, eg 'Feat XXX - see Player's Handbook page 37' is a no-no.

I fully support their rights to protect their intellectual property (although I suspect I'd disagree as to how extensive those rights were). As a customer, though, I find it extremely obnoxious that they try to squelch tools I would find useful, and then offer no alternative.

 

[wordwildwebb]

Rodrigo,

You'll get no argument from me that E-Tools underdelivered on every promise they had made...

 

[PVernon]

Originally posted by Andrewmv:
BTW the current HGS release (v1.13) does *not* support T20. The latest beta (v1.14 build 11) does, but its still a beta and the error trapping is less than perfect (not withstanding any mistakes in my actual logic).[/QB]

So when will you have the next beta out. I liked 1.14

until the wierd date problem showed up .

Peter V.

 

[AndreaV]

Originally posted by PVernon:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Andrewmv:
BTW the current HGS release (v1.13) does *not* support T20. The latest beta (v1.14 build 11) does, but its still a beta and the error trapping is less than perfect (not withstanding any mistakes in my actual logic).

So when will you have the next beta out. I liked 1.14

until the wierd date problem showed up .

Peter V.[/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]Yes the date error. I wrote the program using NZ date format (dd/mm/yy) and it happens when the date is read in US format (mm/dd/yy). I've fixed it in build 11. The build is not online yet, I'll put it up tonight.

 

[Reginald]

Originally posted by Andrewmv:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Rodrigo:

Personally, it ticks me off that they can get away with being so high-handed. Especially since they pretty much ignored the software issue until they shipped the oft-delayed, severely crippled E-tools.

Aye, well thats the way of the world. WOTC introduced the OGL to boost the sales of the PHB and now they have their own software equivlant, they want to protect it. Ticks me off too though.</font>[/QUOTE]To be specific...

The Open Gaming License has nothing to do with boosting the sale of PH. Case in point, the EverQuest Player's Handbook is an OGL-based product (san the d20 trademarked logo) that is derived from the System Reference Document provided by Wizards. Since it is a standalone product and does not require any Core Game Book from Wizards, it does not contribute to Wizards' sale.

It's the d20 System Trademark License that prohibits what they call is "Interactive Games" (legal definition is in the Trademark Logo Guide).

So if you want to do an OGL-based software without the d20 logo, feel free to do so. Just make sure you are dealing with Open Game Content. If you want to use copyrighted material or trademark from somebody besides Wizards, like the Traveller's Handbook Ship Creation Rules, you need permission from the source's publisher.