Antigerone

[themink]

I must admit that way back when I was doing CT, I "pulled" the anti-aging drugs.

There are three possible results from having them either :-

i) They work, based on money, rich people can live forever, getting better and better all the time - result, the Sun king, rules the empire and never dies. It would be a fun universe to play in (particularly if the sun king is naughty), but it isn;t traveller

ii) They work, butonly for certain people - as above after a very short period of time

iii) They work for a while but eventually stop working. The easiest way to do this is have the dose required increase each year - once the dose is above a certain level, side effects start showing. This isn;t really any different from normal aging.

Fundamentally, on the time line that players tend to be, anti-aging is not an issue.

The only reason I would want anti-aging drugs IMTU would be for the political effects and there don;t seem to be any int the OTU.

Do other Refs have them, do they effect the universe in any real sense

 

[themink]

One thing I was always tempted to do was to have them work exactly as written (ie you can live forever) however the drugs are manufactured using a process that the entire traveller universe considers immoral.

An example of this, the drug can only be manufactured from brain tissue of someone with at least half the same DNA - ie can only be manufactured from your children or parents.

This leads to a very dark traveller. There are some sickos amongst us who have been walking the starlanes for hundreds of years. They settle down, raise a family, harvest them and move on.

They make for great bad guys - its obvious to the party that they "must be stopped", but they probably have a network of friends looking out for them.

One effect of this would be to stop the political leaders doing it - Imagine how it would twist the loyalty of the Navy if they noticed their "supreme leader" was living for a long time!

 

[BluWolf]

Having not read anything on this aspect of Traveler I just assumed average lifespan in Traveler would be much longer than today due to quality of life and medical advances (i.e. better food better pills).

Am I wrong?

As far as the Antigerone goes I would include them in the game as a scientific reality but make them incredibly illegal and ban in some Star Trek fashioned convention/treaty. I think banning them in any other fashion would be a littel deus ex machina.

This way they are available to the very naughty.

 

[Uncle Bob]

I always assumed that anagathics extend your life but did not protect you from accident or disease, the law of averages will get you eventually. Unless you isolate yourself like Howard Hughes, which limits your real power and leaves vulnerable to ammoral minions. And if you do last for centuries you need to worry about natural disasters, war, and social upheavals that disrupt your drug supply.

I had a character that took anagathics, but that game extended over ten years real time and thirty years game time.

 

[themink]

True - but if you have that IYTU, it means that all nobles above the level of Baron will only ever die due to misfortune.

So emperors would never "retire". There would never be that smooth handing over the reins or reigning that you would otherwise get when the "old" emperor starts getting on a bit and the next one starts taking up some of the duties.

It makes for a very different sort of universe if rich people only die when unlucky - it puts a premium on those who don;t take chances. At that stage, the military becomes unpopular for the nobles and shortly the leader start despising the led.

Another effect of this is that a rich settled class would probably result in expansion (the only way to become rich once all the local niches have been taken is to break into something new). So socienties with antigerone will tend to be expansionistic. If not then the young agressive minds will be continually trying to tople the current leads so they would probably be encouraged to go and expand.

It's a fun universe to game in, but it isn't really CTU. Since they don't otherwise affect anything, you can just antigerones out and nobody really notices (apart from the old folk).

 

[BluWolf]

Originally posted by The Mink:
[QB]True - but if you have that IYTU, it means that all nobles above the level of Baron will only ever die due to misfortune.

Misfortune can happen or misfortune can be sponsored. As you alluded to in your post, this would promote an expantionist but also OPPORTUNIST society. Lets face it, even in a TU that doesn't use the technology, with SO much to gain the noble families will be feeding on themselves all the time.

Young nobles will be out gunning thier parents and siblings. I just always pictured it that way. Maybe not as bad as the Harkonens but close.

 

[savage]

I don't have the book in front of me but didn't TNE
fix this by reducing attributes as you grew older and failed rolls (every 4 years).

So, someone might last 150-200 yrs healthy but that was about it. Now when futurists tell us we're extending life today is it hard to believe a doubled lifespan in the far future...just thinkin.

Savage

 

[notagoodusername]

Originally posted by savage:
I don't have the book in front of me but didn't TNE
fix this by reducing attributes as you grew older and failed rolls (every 4 years).
Savage

The had side effects for extended use of Anagathics. AFter about 60 years of use they could cause everything from minor physical disfigurements, to brain damage and seizures.

That would stop them from being taken for too long...

Shane

 

[Liam Devlin]

Yeppurs, Shane and Savage are on it.
Pages 33-34 dealt with it in the TNE-PHB.
this was to add onto the next 4 year DM roll vs effects past 60 years (a cumulative +1 at 64 yrs onward (ie at 80 yrs, +5)...see below

With a 2d6 chart fer "affects":
2-4 No effect
5-6 Minor growths (needs Medical cosmetic surgery to remove)
7 Minor growths +1 ( to next roll on this chart)
8-9 Major growths /+2 to next roll)
10-Major disfiguration /+3 to next roll on this chart
11-Major disfiguration /+4 to next roll on this chart
12-Minor pyschological effects, +6
13-Moderate " " , +8
14-Major Pyschological effects, =10
15-pyschopathic behavior, +12

whatta way to live, huh. Steep penalties to the left off consequences of $$$ and anagathics.

Even in Honor Harrington's universe, the prolong series treatments have drawbacks. Not all can take them, just as some folks don't regen well or at all (Honor, matter of fact). And it does show a progressive tech improvement (Prolong-I, Prolong II, Prolong III).

now with DNA tampering...with the aging geneo stuff, there's something else to consider besides Anagathics..

 

[greymouse]

Originally posted by The Mink:
snip - result, the Sun king, rules the empire and never dies. It would be a fun universe to play in (particularly if the sun king is naughty), but it isn;t traveller- snip

Besides the effects Liam mentioned, somewhere in the CT books (I think it might be Infodata but I can't remember exactly) was mentioned that nobles shunned Anagatiks and never used them (they would be in great danger of beeing disposed if they did anyway and someone found out)

 

[Liam Devlin]

A team of authors, Colin(?) and Chris Bunch's "Sten" series deals with a Sunking ruling an "empire" in a six book series wherein the cloned entity always returns.. for truth or consequences..
Nice secret Agent/ war stuff too (makes use of WW2 pacific history in their star battles), as IRC

 

[Ellros]

Originally posted by Liam Devlin:
A team of authors, Colin(?) and Chris Bunch's "Sten" series deals with a Sunking ruling an "empire" in a six book series wherein the cloned entity always returns.. for truth or consequences..
Nice secret Agent/ war stuff too (makes use of WW2 pacific history in their star battles), as IRC

Chris Bunch and Allan Cole Chris Bunch has a 4 book series out now called The Last Legion, which has some interesting ideas one could use.

 

[OIT]

IMTU anagathics slow, but do not stop, aging. A four-year anagathic series (at a bargain basement 9.6MCR + markup due to demand + availability + legality issues + tax) results in one year of normal aging.

 

[BluWolf]

A question I posted earlier;

The average lifespan of humaniti is not longer in the future???

I would assume that average lifespan would have hit the 150+ range by then. Obviously adjusted of tech level of homeworld.

This subject is not addressed in Traveller Canon???

 

[R_Kane]

I would assume that average lifespan would have hit the 150+ range by then. Obviously adjusted of tech level of homeworld.

Hmm...how about something along the lines of...

adjust max lifespan by 1d4+1 years per TL (of homeworld, or where individual spends most time) step from TL8

adding this adjustment if TL is greater than TL8
subtracting it if lower

Now should this be applied only to humans (and possibly Viliani) or to all races?

-Roger

 

[themink]

Play balance interferes.

The Way CT works, people just keep improving unti lthey start making aging rolls. If you have lifespans of 150+, then aging rolls shouldn't start till 100ish and then there is no reason to ever play a young character.

Many story characters are young and so, unless you want them to be horribly disadvantaged, there needs to be some reason to have players start "adventuring" rather than keeping on rolling for the next term.

d20 has exactly the same issue.

Remember play balance is important.

 

[BluWolf]

Originally posted by The Mink:
The Way CT works, people just keep improving unti lthey start making aging rolls. If you have lifespans of 150+, then aging rolls shouldn't start till 100ish and then there is no reason to ever play a young character.
......
Remember play balance is important.

I agree but couldn't the Ref assign an average starting level??

"Ok folks, roll up your characters. Create what ever you want but I won't allow any PC over 7th level. Work your histories accordingly."

 

[phydaux]

Long lived Nobels just begs for lots and lots of political assisinations.

Enter player characters....

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

That's exactly the way I do it. I haven't had to tell anyone to stop yet. but I make a point of telling everyone that the average 'Joe Schmoe' NPC is a 6th level character with skill modifiers of 10+ in his chosen field.

if they try to continue too far past 8th I remind them that the level of every other party member hovers around 9... that usuallly keeps an even playing field.

As for the rest the canonicity of aging... Shrug. my players don't seem to mind. As it is they're playing 30 year olds and 40 year olds, which for many is a NEW thing.

I like the idea of Anagathics needing something so Hellishly selfish as to make them not just illegal but Universally Repugnant... I may adopt that in my campaign.

 

[manley_t]

Interesting -- since in modern aging science some believe that aging is a genetic 'timer' set to go off. When it clicks you stop regenerating and begin deterating. Some belive that there is no resaon why we can't learn how to shut off this timer.

With that in mind, I don't see why in a particularly advanced society it can't be done. If you're able to uplift animal species to the point of making a new sentient species, why can't you 'turn off aging'?

That does, however, radically change the scope of Traveller. To be honest, I never felt that traveller was at the tech to uplift animals anyway. I thought robots were robots and that they weren't even at the tech level where they could create simulacrums to the point of indistuinshability.

That in mind, I like the dark idea of having the agathics drug made from the putitary of someone that is a close genetic match. Or, to borrow from a Babylon 5 episode, just made from the putitary gland of others. However, there was also a show where the tanktonese (sp?) had a property in their putitary gland that gave renewed vigor to humans.

I like the latter the best. Pick a species, say the Aslan, and their putitary gland will reverse the aging of the past 5 years. There you go, an anagathic that runs the risk of starting an interstellar war of genocide.

anyway...just a couple of random thoughts.