BlackBat242
SOC-14 1K
"Gold-pressed Latinum" DS9
A universal monetary unit
- Thread starter Enoki
- Start date
"Gold-pressed Latinum" DS9
Assuming asteroid mining is in your setting (it is in the 3I, belters and the like), the physical amount of currency is somewhat solved. There is a collosal amount of metals inside asteroids. The problem may not be scarcity, but abundance. It may be so common as to be worthless. But, it also depends on how fast you can mine the stuff. If its not too much faster then now, you have a long time for mining materials that would sate the market.
However, a electronic fiat currency in interstellar terms is the exact same as a specie currency. Slowed to jump speed. Your funds only are worth something if you have them, or the bank your crediting has them. And the constraints of jump mean that both are as liquid as the other. Electronic fiat is great for intrasystem or planetside banking, but its stuck at lightspeed. Having a hard currency for interstellar trading means you can carry your cash with you, no need to fear possibly outrunning your banks, or having to wait a week for your funds to show up. Just turn in your hard currency for fiat, do your business, then switch it back to your hard currency for travel.
It would mean ship payments would have to be rather lenient on due dates. If it was really due the 4th of September, and you played it then, but you were 35 parsecs away, then shipping back payment would be a tricky business. But that's a flaw the ImpCred shares as well. Only less a chance of a highway robbery.
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
in my opinion the monetary system would resolve precisely that way - local fiat, interstellar specie. there is no way any bank can know the condition of a non-local (not in-system) bank, thus they would require physical money locally recognized.
there will be exceptions of course, mostly involving mega-corporations, nobility, and treaty agreements. I would imagine that localities like glisten/aki, lunion/strouden, and efate/louzy would in fact share currencies or exchange so readily as to be shared in practice. and I would imagine that some religions/cultures would have ... faith-based banks. recall that the templars established a financial network that allowed pilgrims to deposit money in a templar facility in france, for a check, and then exchange that check for cash at a templar facility in jerusalem.
but if the typical adventurer shows up on vilis and tries to draw funds from a bank based on mora, it might be a big no-go.
the english made an absolute killing conducting piracy against spanish bullion ships. be interesting if traveller included old-fashioned piracy. palique doubloons and zhodani plate, argh!
Actually, drawing funds on Regina from a bank on Villis should be no problem at all - except for the wait time for the transaction to clear via X-mail, and the transfer fees.
The canon CrImp is tangible notes representing specific values. It's the mode of payment of imperial taxes -those are assessed in both bodies and CrImps. It's used by the IN, IMC, and IISS, as well as the nobles, to get stuff done*. The CrImp has value because you need it to keep the IN from bombing you out of existence on grounds of tax revolt.
Taxation currencies have always had a modicum of both specie approach and fiat management. That is to say, Anyone who has fear of the taxing government is more than happy to put a reasonable trust in the face value of the currency, but at the same time, they can be as badly botched as any fiat currency, even tho' they may be backed by some other notion besides not being killed for tax revolt.
*Despite GT's assertions to the contrary, I'm not convinced that there is an Imperial Army as a standing force separate from the member worlds' units. The 5FW boardgame seems to have every unit tied to a homeworld except the marines. Hence not being included.
The canon CrImp is tangible notes representing specific values. It's the mode of payment of imperial taxes -those are assessed in both bodies and CrImps. It's used by the IN, IMC, and IISS, as well as the nobles, to get stuff done*. The CrImp has value because you need it to keep the IN from bombing you out of existence on grounds of tax revolt.
Taxation currencies have always had a modicum of both specie approach and fiat management. That is to say, Anyone who has fear of the taxing government is more than happy to put a reasonable trust in the face value of the currency, but at the same time, they can be as badly botched as any fiat currency, even tho' they may be backed by some other notion besides not being killed for tax revolt.
*Despite GT's assertions to the contrary, I'm not convinced that there is an Imperial Army as a standing force separate from the member worlds' units. The 5FW boardgame seems to have every unit tied to a homeworld except the marines. Hence not being included.
ok. so what keeps anyone from printing any amount they please? during america's woi the continental congress issued paper currency called the continental. as part of its war effort britain parked a ship off the coast with a printing machine heaving out copies of continentals by the wagonload - in fact the british continentals were of higher quality than the american ones. the continental quickly failed. how would the crimp avoid this fate?
Enoki
SOC-14 1K
That's my view, hence the Sliver. Containing a set amount of a long lived "island of stability" ultra heavy isotope that can be detected and measured for presence, that is only available at great expense (eg., only bigger governments can really afford to recover it to begin with), and is in a standardized format, you end up with something that is portable, recognizable, and widely accepted.
This means a starship can haul some of these along wherever it goes and immediately establish bank accounts and have money for expenses on any world.
On the other hand, for most common transactions they are never used as they are too odd and too valuable as currency for everyday transactions.
So, if you were a traveller with a few of these on you, you have cold hard cash most places you go immediately available to you. You don't have to wait for X-boat conformation or such to get a line of credit or open a bank account.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
The Imperium exists to give value to the credit.
Look what happened the last time the Imperial credit was no longer recognised...
Look what happened the last time the Imperial credit was no longer recognised...
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
Most currencies are faith based.
Actually, so are most economies.
Actually, so are most economies.
Hi Enoki,
I actually wrote much of the Traveller Wiki entry.
What I don't know and haven't been able to yet source is the canon source (book) of that sophont group...
No. Wait a minute, I have Don's alien review document.
It says: GtD 35, 56-57 [Gateway to Destiny, Gateway Domain Sourcebook © QuikLink Interactive 2004. ]
I guess that answers the question.
Thanks!
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
Yes, Imperials would need to honor those other currencies. However, this more like the US Dollar or the Euro; you would not expect every Mom & Pop store to honor those currencies, but exchange brokers, yes.
Now for the Vargr, since there are several different Vargr states, that will be somewhat more subjective on the Imperial side as to whom they will honor. The reverse, however, would be more in the Imperial Credit's favor. Like the USA may not honor the monetary unit of Chad, but Chad probably accepts US dollars.
The original post raised the issue. If the Imperial Credit is not accepted, then what do you do?
In my POV, Imperial Credits are cyptocurrency rather like bitcoins, only directly controlled by the Imperial Banking system.
But, for outside of the Imperium, where the Credit is not accepted. specie or barter are really your only options. And, when it gets down to it, specie is really just an alternate form of barter.
But, for outside of the Imperium, where the Credit is not accepted. specie or barter are really your only options. And, when it gets down to it, specie is really just an alternate form of barter.
crypto currencies only work because of universal communication - that is why they exist on the internet and no-where else. and that is exactly what is missing in traveller - universal communication. someone jumps in-system and says, "I have one million credits in crypto-currency." well, does he? is the legitimate owner? is the crypto real, or did he just copy it from somewhere else and is now presenting the data as being unique to him? there's no way to know, for weeks at a time. and if you do get confirmation, well, how do you know that the confirmation is reliable? some guy could jump from system to system, following his counterfeit digital money as it propagates across the entire sector, ever rich, like morgaine and vanye through the gates, ever young.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
The Imperium accepts Imperium Credits for Imperium services, which I suppose most Travellers would encounter when transitting through Starports, which thereby gives the Imperium credit a defined value, especially if gas, or hydrogen, prices are standard.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Seems to me there would be a fiscal opportunity for banks and other financial entities to make money offering short term low interest loans covering liquidity shortfalls while balance of payments are delayed by x-boat comms.
Heh, without realtime comms the phrase 'velocity of money' has a literal element to it.
As I've mentioned in other posts, there should be a premium placed on higher jump freight capability due to faster delivery meaning faster payment from consignee to vendor.
Come to think of it would explain the speculative cargo aspect of merchant activity. Many odd/small lots operators would rather walk away with cold hard cash immediately rather then negotiate for a higher price several systems away, fritter away the extra value with storage/shrinkage costs waiting for the contract and the time loss of money in transit for weeks.
Which also leaves the door open to jobbing/pawning off pirated goods. Who knows how many of those speculative cargos were originally purloined?
I would expect specie currency reserves to be an issue between trade/fiscal orgs working across different polities at a mininum even if the standard is fiat currency internally.
Heh, without realtime comms the phrase 'velocity of money' has a literal element to it.
As I've mentioned in other posts, there should be a premium placed on higher jump freight capability due to faster delivery meaning faster payment from consignee to vendor.
Come to think of it would explain the speculative cargo aspect of merchant activity. Many odd/small lots operators would rather walk away with cold hard cash immediately rather then negotiate for a higher price several systems away, fritter away the extra value with storage/shrinkage costs waiting for the contract and the time loss of money in transit for weeks.
Which also leaves the door open to jobbing/pawning off pirated goods. Who knows how many of those speculative cargos were originally purloined?
I would expect specie currency reserves to be an issue between trade/fiscal orgs working across different polities at a mininum even if the standard is fiat currency internally.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
Heh, in the same way they talk about the petrodollar, its the hydrocredit?
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
The original check writers, the Templars, were effectively writing cryptocurrency as a way for Travellers of the era to do business. The check allowed the bearer to draw upon gold from the local templar bank gold hoard, based on the value they had deposited elsewhere.
Avoided all the costs and security overhead and risks carrying your own coin brought on trading missions, and at a time when trade was very much at a similar rate of speed to Traveller.
http://thefinanser.co.uk/fsclub/2011/08/we-are-knights-of-the-banking-table.html
Patron Zero
SOC-13
Any currency, or for that matter whatever commodity such is based upon, is conceptual to whatever value such is given.
Simply said, one cannot eat gold nor the more exotic delicacy, gold-pressed latinum.
It does make sense all the same, that the Imperium maintain gold or platinum depositories on any worlds where banking is conducted just to allow for the delay in regards to off-world transactions.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
It's pretty much the traditional letter of credit.
The difference would be that once it's issued, for the next general data dump, the particulars and the codes of it would be spread to all the branches, and chances are that the information will arrive before you do. When you draw on it, that information will be spread to the other branches again, which will allow each branch manager an uptodate status on your remaining funds.
The difference would be that once it's issued, for the next general data dump, the particulars and the codes of it would be spread to all the branches, and chances are that the information will arrive before you do. When you draw on it, that information will be spread to the other branches again, which will allow each branch manager an uptodate status on your remaining funds.
