A thought on Starport Classes
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Spinward Flow
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Not sure where you're going with that question, but CT doesn't break things down that way.
It probably should, but it's an added level of detail that was probably thought of as superfluous/unnecessary when CT was being written (more as a one off wargame than as a campaign simulation, in the early days).
Later editions of Traveller must have included something to that effect, since the Travellerwiki includes information on how much annual hull tonnage starports of various worlds can produce.
It's only when you get to places that have type A starports and 0 tons per annum of hull production that stuff starts looking a bid ... odd.
It probably should, but it's an added level of detail that was probably thought of as superfluous/unnecessary when CT was being written (more as a one off wargame than as a campaign simulation, in the early days).
Later editions of Traveller must have included something to that effect, since the Travellerwiki includes information on how much annual hull tonnage starports of various worlds can produce.
It's only when you get to places that have type A starports and 0 tons per annum of hull production that stuff starts looking a bid ... odd.
It was a "What If" sorta question.Not sure where you're going with that question, but CT doesn't break things down that way.
It probably should, but it's an added level of detail that was probably thought of as superfluous/unnecessary when CT was being written (more as a one off wargame than as a campaign simulation, in the early days).
Later editions of Traveller must have included something to that effect, since the Travellerwiki includes information on how much annual hull tonnage starports of various worlds can produce.
It's only when you get to places that have type A starports and 0 tons per annum of hull production that stuff starts looking a bid ... odd.
Also considering Books 1 through 3 there is no mention of of larger ships, thus the basic port rating could be construed along my supposition.
Corollary Question; What is the largest hull than can land? Stemming from the core assumption that most Starports are on the surface of a world.
Not sure where you're going with that question, but CT doesn't break things down that way.
It probably should, but it's an added level of detail that was probably thought of as superfluous/unnecessary when CT was being written (more as a one off wargame than as a campaign simulation, in the early days).
Later editions of Traveller must have included something to that effect, since the Travellerwiki includes information on how much annual hull tonnage starports of various worlds can produce.
It's only when you get to places that have type A starports and 0 tons per annum of hull production that stuff starts looking a bid ... odd.
I think it was GURPS which had the calculations for starport shipyard capacity; it's also in MgT2e High Guard or World Builder's Handbook (I can't remember which off hand).
Could the zero capacities be because the system TL is below 8?
CT, Trillion Credit Squadron.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
According to LBB S9, p28 your answer is the 30k ton Light Cruiser, the last of the streamlined starships.
Pretty much after that, just about everything is Configuration: 4 (close structure), 7 (dispersed structure) or 9 (buffered planetoid) according to the USPs.
In CT, partially streamlined hulls can land on worlds with Atmosphere: 0-1, but for anything 2+ you need configurations: 1, 2 or 6 ... and the 30k ton Light Cruiser is the largest using that hull configuration.
Just a data point, not a proof of anything beyond that.
No.
Paya/Aramis/Spinward Marches is type A @ TL=9.
Grote/Glisten/Spinward Marches is type A @ TL=A (LBB S3) or B (Travellermap due to erroneous errata).
Binges/District 268/Spinward marches is type A @ TL=A.
All three worlds list as 0 tons of hulls produced annually on Travellerwiki.
Then again, all three are low population worlds (4-) so that may be why the formula results in 0 tons per year, but it still doesn't make sense.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
It does make a sort of sense for civilian shipyards to be limited to the 5000t maximum of LBB2.
The bigger civilian and military stuff requires the shipyards of LBB5/TCS run by governments and megacorporations.
The bigger civilian and military stuff requires the shipyards of LBB5/TCS run by governments and megacorporations.
Note I used Books 1 through 3 as the base reference.
I am not even precluding them. What the Supposition is in the frame of the very basics, that ports as rated are generally focused on the Adventure Class Ships. (note the Assumption would be Ports capable of building larger ships would have higher populations Etc. etc...)
Taking the population figures and Government codes from the Wiki and using the formula for shipyard capacity in TCS we get:
Paya - Pop 600, Gov 4, Peacetime capacity = 0.51 dTons, Wartime capacity = 0.87 dTons
Grote - Pop 10,000, Gov 0, Peacetime capacity - 5 dTons, Wartime capacity = 15 dTons
Binges - Pop 700, Gov 3, Peacetime capacity = 0.63 dTons, Wartime capacity = 0.84 dTons
Given that the wiki also seems to use GURPS for other factors relating to starports, I suspect that also applies to the build capacity.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
Just for clarity, are you computing that in peacetime Grote ought to take 20 years to construct a single Type-S 100 ton Scout/Courier?
Many have taken the approach that the ratings are purely those relevant to civil trade; that Adv. 5 allows building military ships despite lesser ports has, in days prior to ready access to Marc's opinions, been used to justify that deviation.
It is fair to say that the ratings were intended primarily for the ships buildable in the core rules.
No - my reading of (CT) TCS is that those figures indicate the size of the shipyard; output is a different calculation. As, with the exception of Grote in wartime, none of them are able to work on even a 10 dTon hull the shipyard capacity is effectively zero.
MgT2e's World Builder's Handbook does give minimum shipyard sizes for each class of starport, then a further calculation for their annual output. Where the output is below the minimum level, it is assumed that the remainder is either given over to maintenance/repair or is governmental/reserved (eg, Tukera's shipyards in the Deneb sector; I can't remember which system they are in) and not available for private commissions.
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
Arguably, the minimum hull size for a type A starport ought to be 100 tons of construction capacity (for what ought to be obvious reasons).
An option for a very simplistic house rule, would be to notice that the drive performance chart in LBB2 includes 10 hull sizes:
- 100 tons
- 200 tons
- 400 tons
- 600 tons
- 800 tons
- 1000 tons
- 2000 tons
- 3000 tons
- 4000 tons
- 5000 tons
A place like Grote/Glisten/Spinward Marches with a Population: 4 and Government: 0 can construct starships up to 600 tons, but no more, for either private or public clients.
A place like Binges/District 268/Spinward Marches with a Population: 2 and Government: 3 can construct starships of up to 200 tons for private order contracts, but up to 800 tons for public order contracts.
This means that anything in excess of 5000 tons is functionally a "public party" construction project (military, megacorporate, etc.) and requires population plus government codes that add up to 11+. Basically, you need population+government to add up to 11+ combined in order to access LBB5 BCS in excess of 5000 tons, which is just a threshold (you must be this high to ride this ride) rather than a limiter (keep extending the above paradigm), from a rules perspective.
A Referee could easily deem it the case that beyond a certain tonnage (30k? 50k? 100k?), only Industrialized worlds need apply. Industrialized worlds would have no restrictions on maximum tonnage they can construct for a single hull.
That's how I would house rule, if it were up to me.
From MT:IE:
So, the answer to your question is at least 1000 dton ships. As the Navy uses many larger ships, I guess (but that's only this, my guess) if this is the threshold it set is's likely the maximum practical tonange for landing them.
I'd expect most class A and B starports (and fair share of C) to have orbital facilities, and with the cheap gravitic interface services in Traveller I guess the cargo transfer is cheap enough as for most larger ships never touching ground.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
THAT is how to house rule!Arguably, the minimum hull size for a type A starport ought to be 100 tons of construction capacity (for what ought to be obvious reasons).
An option for a very simplistic house rule, would be to notice that the drive performance chart in LBB2 includes 10 hull sizes:
Add UWP population determines how many steps along that chart for hull sizes you can go for private party ship construction. Public party ship construction (governments, corporations, subsidies, etc.) use population plus government.
- 100 tons
- 200 tons
- 400 tons
- 600 tons
- 800 tons
- 1000 tons
- 2000 tons
- 3000 tons
- 4000 tons
- 5000 tons
A place like Grote/Glisten/Spinward Marches with a Population: 4 and Government: 0 can construct starships up to 600 tons, but no more, for either private or public clients.
A place like Binges/District 268/Spinward Marches with a Population: 2 and Government: 3 can construct starships of up to 200 tons for private order contracts, but up to 800 tons for public order contracts.
This means that anything in excess of 5000 tons is functionally a "public party" construction project (military, megacorporate, etc.) and requires population plus government codes that add up to 11+. Basically, you need population+government to add up to 11+ combined in order to access LBB5 BCS in excess of 5000 tons, which is just a threshold (you must be this high to ride this ride) rather than a limiter (keep extending the above paradigm), from a rules perspective.
A Referee could easily deem it the case that beyond a certain tonnage (30k? 50k? 100k?), only Industrialized worlds need apply. Industrialized worlds would have no restrictions on maximum tonnage they can construct for a single hull.
That's how I would house rule, if it were up to me.
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