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CT Only: Zhodani Proles

Meteoric Assault

Marquis de Sharkbait
Admin Award
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- Zhodani Proles

I would like to have a discussion here at COTI about the Zhodani Proles.

My reference material is the JTAS#9 Article: Contact Zhodani, JTAS #23: Zhodani Philosophies and the Alien Modules#4: Zhodani.

Basic CT canon conventions:
1. All proles are PSI: 8-
2. Born into the class for the most part.
3. their Education never exceeds the Social Standing initially.
4. Proles Social Standing never exceeds 9.
5. Proles do not have voting enfranchisement or mental privacy.
6. they are born with a 'childsname' and surname, at 18 and 'adult name'.
7. According to JTAS#9 Proles cannot be commissioned officers.

Hopefully to begin a conversation:

1. Can Proles and should they be commissioned? My inclination is to answer is yes, and they should be limited to not advancing above a certain pay grade. It's the demand for trained leaders in the organization wedge would outstrip the population of Nobles and Intendants very quickly. My conclusion is this would and should reflect Zhodani TO&E.

2. Education for Proles. Should it be limited completely by social standing or is their a CAP on how high they may climb?

3. Roles of Proles in the Society: workers, Low level mangers, officials and merchants, etc?
 
Screen%20Shot%202015-09-09%20at%206.42.41%20PM_zpsbae0yfee.png
- Zhodani Proles

I would like to have a discussion here at COTI about the Zhodani Proles.

My reference material is the JTAS#9 Article: Contact Zhodani, JTAS #23: Zhodani Philosophies and the Alien Modules#4: Zhodani.

Basic CT canon conventions:
1. All proles are PSI: 8-
2. Born into the class for the most part.
3. their Education never exceeds the Social Standing initially.
4. Proles Social Standing never exceeds 9.
5. Proles do not have voting enfranchisement or mental privacy.
6. they are born with a 'childsname' and surname, at 18 and 'adult name'.
7. According to JTAS#9 Proles cannot be commissioned officers.

Hopefully to begin a conversation:

1. Can Proles and should they be commissioned? My inclination is to answer is yes, and they should be limited to not advancing above a certain pay grade. It's the demand for trained leaders in the organization wedge would outstrip the population of Nobles and Intendants very quickly. My conclusion is this would and should reflect Zhodani TO&E.

According CT:AM4, page 24:

Any character may be promoted to the highest available ranks, reglardless of Social Standing, except: proles and intendants in Government <snip>

So, it seems answer is Yes. Nonetheless, nobles and intendants may not be enlisted personnel, nobles eing officers and intendants being (at least) warrant officers.

2. Education for Proles. Should it be limited completely by social standing or is their a CAP on how high they may climb?

According CT:AM4 again, only at the begining of their careers. In the Chargen process (and after it), as I understand it, they can raise their education above their Social Standing.

3. Roles of Proles in the Society: workers, Low level mangers, officials and merchants, etc?

As I understand Zhodani society, they perform most of the roles needed in any society (high Government and Tavrchedl' excepted).
 
According CT:AM4, page 24:



So, it seems answer is Yes. Nonetheless, nobles and intendants may not be enlisted personnel, nobles eing officers and intendants being (at least) warrant officers.



According CT:AM4 again, only at the begining of their careers. In the Chargen process (and after it), as I understand it, they can raise their education above their Social Standing.






As I understand Zhodani society, they perform most of the roles needed in any society (high Government and Tavrchedl' excepted).


I was hoping McPerth, you would share your interpretation... not the text I already have, to flesh it out per se.
 
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I was hoping McPerth, you would share your interpretation... not the text I already have, to flesh it out per se.

And so I did in the latter two questions, though the first one was more direct to the text.

As for if proles should be commisioned, as in any case, it would depend on their capabilities. Being not psionic does not make you a bad company (or battalion) commander, and the Zhodani are masters of psicology. They recognize carisma and other abitilites.

If they find a prole with enough charisma to lead the troop (or the office, or whatever can it be) and with enough knowledge to be efficient on it, they will understand that he/she may be the right person for the post.
 
I've noticed that Zho nobles can start with a psi much lower than 9 but can train it during character generation.

It strikes me that the Zho are missing a trick since they could find proles with a useful rare talent - teleportation at 5 perhaps. Train them up to 9+ using the methods you use for the nobles and you have a much larger pool to get your teleporting commandos from.

Yet they prefer to keep the proles untrained. I wonder if them being exposed to psionics means that some proles even with low level psi ratings start to develop useful skills?

Could a prole who becomes wealthy through trading or the like pay for 'psionic college', or pay for their children to go to 'psionic college'.

Keeping the proles downtrodden and relatively psionic free is the 'evil' side to the Zho society IMHO.
 
Proles & Zhodani Military/Naval Ranks

My general thought would be that Proles should not be Commissioned Officers of any rank; that should be reserved for Intendants and Nobles (which is canon, AFAIK).


However, if you are willing to engage in a little house-rule interpretation:

My thoughts on this generally would be that Proles should be able to ascend to the highest Enlisted/NCO ranks. Having said that, Zhodani thought-scanning by Intendants ought to be able to identify who are best suited to positions of hands-on leadership (NCOs), and whose personalities are best suited to be simple Enlisted (non-NCO/technicians/specialists). OTOH, as master-psychologists, Zhodani Intendants would likewise be aware that humans are motivated by achievable goals and rewards (i.e. promotion and recognition).

So my thought would be that Proles ascending the Enlisted Ranks would have to qualify for an NCO-track based on temperament. Those who don't would have a parallel track in the Enlisted (non-NCO) ranks, so that either can continue to be promoted and recognized for achievement (much as the old "technician ranks" in the US Army of the 1920's - 1940's, or the NCO vs Enlisted track that I believe the German Military/Navy has, IIRC). So you might have ranks E1-E3 universally for Proles, but afterward have ranks E4-E9 for "true" Enlisted/Technicians/Specialists, and "N4-N9" for a parallel NCO track for leaders.

Warrant Officers would be Intendants and have direct oversight of NCOs, and would report to Commissioned Officers (Senior Intendants & Nobles).

Intendants would have a "cap" for the highest commissioned rank they can attain (perhaps exclusively as staff-officers or LDOs), whereas Nobles would be unrestricted in advancement in the Commissioned Ranks (as Unrestricted Line-Officers).
 
My general thought would be that Proles should not be Commissioned Officers of any rank; that should be reserved for Intendants and Nobles (which is canon, AFAIK).

no. warrants, maybe, but not line or command in any way.

And yet, my quote from CT:AM4 stands...

The fact of being a good telepath, or teleporter, or whatever it is does not make you a good officer when it comes to tactical deployement (to keep talking about military, it can be tranferred to any other organization), the same way that not having a good PSR does not mean you would not be good for command.

In fact, I see more nobles and intendants as staff offciers than proles in such positions. A good telepath would be an intendant at least, so he will be at least a warrant officer, but that des not mean it has command over anyone.

Any prole that is promoted will be for his own merits, so it will be good (probably very good) in his position, while a noble will be officer due to his status, and may not be so good on the position.

So, I can imagine a Zhodani unit commanded by prole officers that have shown their capability in tactics and leadership, while the intendants/nobles in hte unit feeling more a staff role (and so being under those prole officers tactical command) as scramblers (and probably some "political officer" covert mission too, though, as I understand Zhodanis, they use to be quite loyal).
 
And yet, my quote from CT:AM4 stands...

The fact of being a good telepath, or teleporter, or whatever it is does not make you a good officer when it comes to tactical deployement (to keep talking about military, it can be tranferred to any other organization), the same way that not having a good PSR does not mean you would not be good for command.

In fact, I see more nobles and intendants as staff offciers than proles in such positions. A good telepath would be an intendant at least, so he will be at least a warrant officer, but that des not mean it has command over anyone.

Any prole that is promoted will be for his own merits, so it will be good (probably very good) in his position, while a noble will be officer due to his status, and may not be so good on the position.

So, I can imagine a Zhodani unit commanded by prole officers that have shown their capability in tactics and leadership, while the intendants/nobles in hte unit feeling more a staff role (and so being under those prole officers tactical command) as scramblers (and probably some "political officer" covert mission too, though, as I understand Zhodanis, they use to be quite loyal).


True, but I would guess Commissioned Officers (even Intendants and Nobles) would be vetted similarly to Proles: Those with good leadership personality types would be steered toward command/leadership positions, and the rest would be steered toward Staff-Officer roles. (And a good officer is generally going to want to have a good senior NCO at his right hand, anyway).

One could likewise argue that there are Proles who have good political and social leadership skill-potential as well, but that is not going to get them beyond a certain social rank in the Zhodani class-hierarchy.
 
True, but I would guess Commissioned Officers (even Intendants and Nobles) would be vetted similarly to Proles: Those with good leadership personality types would be steered toward command/leadership positions, and the rest would be steered toward Staff-Officer roles. (And a good officer is generally going to want to have a good senior NCO at his right hand, anyway).

IMHO this would be a waste of talent. If you have your psionicists commanding the unit, then they will either not be best using their psionics or not being good at command (probably both). That's why I said I see most staff officiers being precisely psionicist, to better use their power without the being distracted with command, while the commanders are not distractedwith psionicists responsabilities...

One could likewise argue that there are Proles who have good political and social leadership skill-potential as well, but that is not going to get them beyond a certain social rank in the Zhodani class-hierarchy.

In the Zhodani class.hierarchy, probably many actions use psionicists (akin Asimov's second funcation psicologists, that don't need to talk too much among them).
 
I've noticed that Zho nobles can start with a psi much lower than 9 but can train it during character generation.

It strikes me that the Zho are missing a trick since they could find proles with a useful rare talent - teleportation at 5 perhaps. Train them up to 9+ using the methods you use for the nobles and you have a much larger pool to get your teleporting commandos from.

Yet they prefer to keep the proles untrained. I wonder if them being exposed to psionics means that some proles even with low level psi ratings start to develop useful skills?

Could a prole who becomes wealthy through trading or the like pay for 'psionic college', or pay for their children to go to 'psionic college'.

Keeping the proles downtrodden and relatively psionic free is the 'evil' side to the Zho society IMHO.

You have presented the dilemma that I have thought about for years
 
My general thought would be that Proles should not be Commissioned Officers of any rank; that should be reserved for Intendants and Nobles (which is canon, AFAIK).


However, if you are willing to engage in a little house-rule interpretation:

My thoughts on this generally would be that Proles should be able to ascend to the highest Enlisted/NCO ranks. Having said that, Zhodani thought-scanning by Intendants ought to be able to identify who are best suited to positions of hands-on leadership (NCOs), and whose personalities are best suited to be simple Enlisted (non-NCO/technicians/specialists). OTOH, as master-psychologists, Zhodani Intendants would likewise be aware that humans are motivated by achievable goals and rewards (i.e. promotion and recognition).

So my thought would be that Proles ascending the Enlisted Ranks would have to qualify for an NCO-track based on temperament. Those who don't would have a parallel track in the Enlisted (non-NCO) ranks, so that either can continue to be promoted and recognized for achievement (much as the old "technician ranks" in the US Army of the 1920's - 1940's, or the NCO vs Enlisted track that I believe the German Military/Navy has, IIRC). So you might have ranks E1-E3 universally for Proles, but afterward have ranks E4-E9 for "true" Enlisted/Technicians/Specialists, and "N4-N9" for a parallel NCO track for leaders.

Warrant Officers would be Intendants and have direct oversight of NCOs, and would report to Commissioned Officers (Senior Intendants & Nobles).

Intendants would have a "cap" for the highest commissioned rank they can attain (perhaps exclusively as staff-officers or LDOs), whereas Nobles would be unrestricted in advancement in the Commissioned Ranks (as Unrestricted Line-Officers).

I agree I think Intendants should cap at brigade/capitol ship command.
 
My general thought would be that Proles should not be Commissioned Officers of any rank; that should be reserved for Intendants and Nobles (which is canon, AFAIK).


However, if you are willing to engage in a little house-rule interpretation:

My thoughts on this generally would be that Proles should be able to ascend to the highest Enlisted/NCO ranks. Having said that, Zhodani thought-scanning by Intendants ought to be able to identify who are best suited to positions of hands-on leadership (NCOs), and whose personalities are best suited to be simple Enlisted (non-NCO/technicians/specialists). OTOH, as master-psychologists, Zhodani Intendants would likewise be aware that humans are motivated by achievable goals and rewards (i.e. promotion and recognition).

So my thought would be that Proles ascending the Enlisted Ranks would have to qualify for an NCO-track based on temperament. Those who don't would have a parallel track in the Enlisted (non-NCO) ranks, so that either can continue to be promoted and recognized for achievement (much as the old "technician ranks" in the US Army of the 1920's - 1940's, or the NCO vs Enlisted track that I believe the German Military/Navy has, IIRC). So you might have ranks E1-E3 universally for Proles, but afterward have ranks E4-E9 for "true" Enlisted/Technicians/Specialists, and "N4-N9" for a parallel NCO track for leaders.

Warrant Officers would be Intendants and have direct oversight of NCOs, and would report to Commissioned Officers (Senior Intendants & Nobles).

Intendants would have a "cap" for the highest commissioned rank they can attain (perhaps exclusively as staff-officers or LDOs), whereas Nobles would be unrestricted in advancement in the Commissioned Ranks (as Unrestricted Line-Officers).

To expand on your concept some In my conception I have thought that proles could cap out as captains and naval Lt.s The warrant officer track would be where the majority of the careerists would retire at.

One could almost use the ancient roman analogy... the Centurions-Proles / Intendants: parallel equestrians are prefects and tribunes / Nobles- Patricians:tribunes, prefects, legatus, counsels and proconsuls?

I am going to ask if someone can share their take on merchant crews and the civilian side of consulate life. we have a fairly vague inclination that the proles fill other lower and middle level positions with the society. I can see them in roles as clerks, low level bureaucrats ( whatever that is ... I don't have any direct working knowledge of them). I can see them as workers, farmers, factory foreman, shift supervisors, primary and secondary educators, shop supervisors, and finally craftsman. I am curious how they would manifest as scientists, engineers, medical providers, and the white collar professions... more interesting as a entrepreneurs? would they need a noble's sponsorship? How would capital flow in Zhodani society with its class differences?
 
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To expand on your concept some In my conception I have thought that proles could cap out as captains and naval Lt.s The warrant officer track would be where the majority of the careerists would retire at.

One could almost use the ancient roman analogy... the Centurions-Proles / Intendants: parallel equestrians are prefects and tribunes / Nobles- Patricians:tribunes, prefects, legatus, counsels and proconsuls?

I see it more like Victorian army, where nobles usually joined the military as officers, but that did not mean all officers were noble, as many commoners rose from the ranks, if they showed promise.

I am going to ask if someone can share their take on merchant crews and the civilian side of consulate life. we have a fairly vague inclination that the proles fill other lower and middle level positions with the society. I can see them in roles as clerks, low level bureaucrats ( whatever that is ... I don't have any direct working knowledge of them). I can see them as workers, farmers, factory foreman, shift supervisors, primary and secondary educators, shop supervisors, and finally craftsman. I am curious how they would manifest as scientists, engineers, medical providers, and the white collar professions... more interesting as a entrepreneurs? would they need a noble's sponsorship? How would capital flow in Zhodani society with its class differences?

I once more disagree with you in most those points.

When you talk about educators, I believe this would be precisely a field moslty coped by psionicists (mostly indtendants), as is one of the critical fields of society, and it's precisely on primary and seccondary education where powerful psionicist must be detected (and potentiated). AM4 also tells us that the proles are directed towards where they can better serve (and hopely feel fine with themselves), and that probably needs much psycological (pnd probably psionic) training to detect the best way for each one.

I see most Zhoadani education (mostly at early ages) to be quite personalized to identify psionic given chidren (after they are idetified, only those gifted and nobles keep this kind of education, while most proles are in "less quality" education institutions). I see this reflected in the limits (upper by proles, lower for intendants/nobles) in EDU given in CharGen.

About the rest, I see the Zhodani proles as being like a "parallel society" with nobles. Money has little to do with being noble or prole in Zhodani society, and remember ambition is said to be one of the Zhodani society traits.

I see the proles filling many society roles, incluiding some of leadership (Government aside). I see them as managers, as well as workers, each one according their capabilities. They can raise to comercial ship captains, or CEO eauivalents, if they are good at it.

The widespread use of psycology and psionics in Zhodani society allows the state managers (at any level, from village leaders to high councel members) to identify the more capable persons for most posts, be them nobles, indentants of proles, and probably to (as subtly as possible) direct them that way. where those that are really good will rise.
 
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It strikes me that the Zho are missing a trick since they could find proles with a useful rare talent - teleportation at 5 perhaps. Train them up to 9+ using the methods you use for the nobles and you have a much larger pool to get your teleporting commandos from.

I see this quite likely, but I guess this will happen before 18 years, and so already featured in the initial stats in CharGen (even if only for simplicity). See that in chargen only nobles and intendants can raise their psi, as it's only in their tables...

Could a prole who becomes wealthy through trading or the like pay for 'psionic college', or pay for their children to go to 'psionic college'.

My take on this is that those kind of schools are state owned, and no money can buy you entrance on them (though the state can "offer" you a scholarship if they think you deserve it, but once again I think this will occur mostly before 18 years old, only exceptionally after).

Keeping the proles downtrodden and relatively psionic free is the 'evil' side to the Zho society IMHO.

I'm sure they don't see it as 'evil', as Zhodani society makes he best to keep everyone happy, and that's surely 'good'. As I compared the Zhodani hierarchy with Asimov's Second Fundation, this time I'll compare the societey with Houxley's A Happy World. Imagine how effective the conditioning can be if supported by psionics...
 
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I see it more like Victorian army, where nobles usually joined the military as officers, but that did not mean all officers were noble, as many commoners rose from the ranks, if they showed promise.



I once more disagree with you in most those points.

When you talk about educators, I believe this would be precisely a field moslty coped by psionicists (mostly indtendants), as is one of the critical fields of society, and it's precisely on primary and seccondary education where powerful psionicist must be detected (and potentiated). AM4 also tells us that the proles are directed towards where they can better serve (and hopely feel fine iwth themselves), and that probably needs much psycological (pnd probably psionic) training to detect the best way for each one.

I see most Zhoadani education (msotly at early ages) to be quite personalized to identify psionic given chidren (after they are idetified, only those gifted and nobles keep this kind of education, while most proles are in "less quality" education institutions). I see this reflected in the limits (upper by proles, lower for intendants/nobles) in EDU given in CharGen.

About the rest, I see the Zhodani proles as being like a "parallel society" with nobles. Money has little to do with being noble or prole in Zhodani society, and remember ambition is said to be one of the Zhodani society traits.

I see the proles filling many society roles, incluiding some of leadership (Government aside). I see them as managers, as well as workers, each one according their capabilities. They can raise to comercial ship captains, or CEO eauivalents, if they are good at it.

The widespread use of psycology and psionics in Zhodani society allows the state managers (at any level, from village leaders to high councel members) to identify the more capable persons for most posts, be them nobles, indentants of proles, and probably to (as subtly as possible) direct them that way. where those that are really good will rise.

Good Argument.

I differ in my perception on the issue of education. I can see the proles serving in educational roles, purely based on the demand for educators. Looking at the primary and secondary educational systems. I don't see an intendant being a primary school teacher, while we can see the humor of a psionic teacher in a a rowdy classroom. Clearly the benefit is form a the use of psionic in cognitive therapy or redirection would exceed the RL success in such modalities. While you have recognized ambition as being a core value of Zhodani society, and further you and I agree that aptitude and ability are evaluated early on within Zhodani society early on. Therefore I can see Proles in educational roles both academic and technical.
Given the statistical probability of a proles having a specialized aptitude in any given field it would be to the benefit of Zhodani society to not only encourage, but to facilitate such an individuals pursuit of developing such potential. Whether it be in Science, Mechanics, Engineering, Medicine, Education, etc...

Also we can take into account that the Zhodani society has developed psychology to a level here in RL we could hardly imagine... There is the ability even now to read non-verbal ques (attachment based therapy) such as: physical signs; gestures; biofeedback; and etc... A Prole can be even more effective when trained in such a manner. I imagine that non-psionic merchant crews would need to be trained in such a manner to deal with human cultures outside of the consulate.

Anyway that is my take on education.

As far as capital moving through the consulate I speculate it may be something based loosely on the notion of Edward Bellmy's Looking Backward which embraces the Rochdale Principles. This however raises an issue in conflict with the idea of ambition and advancement? Do such values manifest in economic and personal wealth terms or is this instinct or drive moderated or mediated by the use of psionic in the consulate?
 
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Good Argument.

I differ in my perception on the issue of education. I can see the proles serving in educational roles, purely based on the demand for educators. Looking at the primary and Secondary educational systems. I don't see an intendant being a primary school teacher, while we can see the humor of a Psionic teacher in a a rowdy classroom. Clearly the benefit is form a the use of psionic in cognitive therapy or redirection would exceed the RL success in such modalities. while you have recognized ambition as being a core value of Zhodani society, and further you and I agree that aptitude and ability are evaluated early on within Zhodani society early on I can see Proles in educational roles both academic and technical.
Given the statistical probability of a proles having a specialized aptitude in any given field it would be to the benefit of Zhodani society to not only encourage, but to facilitate such an individuals pursuit of developing such potential wether it be in Science, Mechanics, Engineering, Medicine, Education, etc...

Also we can take into account that the Zhodani society has developed psychology to a level here in RL we could hardly imagine... There is the ability even now to read non-verbal ques (attachment based therapy) such as: physical signs; gestures; biofeedback; and etc... A Prole can be effective when trained in such a manner. I imagine that non-psionic merchant crews would need to be trained in such a manner to deal with human cultures outside of the consulate.

Anyway that is my take on education.

As said before, I expect Zhodani, due to their psycological view of the society, would give uttermost importance to education, moslty in early ages, as is where they can not only identify the talents (not only in psi, but also in other fields) and inclinations of their children, but also the traumas and other mental disorders that may be treated (or must be watched) on them.

I agree about secondary education, and even more about higher one, can be taken over by proles. After all, to train an engineer I guess mathematical talent is more important than being a good telepath, to put an example. That's why I said that in secondary education (or its equivalent, I don't know the Zhodani educational cycles) would not be so personalized as primary school, at least for the proles (again, hence the EDU limits on initial stats).

As far as capital moving through the consulate I speculate it may be something based loosely on the notion of Edward Bellmy's Looking Backward which embraces the Rochdale Principles. This however raises an issue in conflict with the idea of ambition and advancement? Do such values manifest in economic and personal wealth terms or is this instinct or drive moderated or mediated by the use of psionic in the consulate?

First of all, I didn't know those books, and just the Wikipedia articles you gave us seem quite interesting.

I agree with you about how Zhodani society may handle (at large) economy, but OTOH they sure have rewards for succesful individuals, be them in prestige, status (not necessary social), fame, respect, promotion or whatever it could be (incluiding increased earnings or privileges). Reward uses to be an important part of the human (and non human) motivation, and sure they know it, whatever the reward is.

That's why I think proles can raise to the higher strata of the society (and the use of psioics and psycology will avoid Peter Principle to be, so leading to higher efficiency).

Being noble or not is another matter, I see Zhodani seeing nobleship aside from status, as dificult as this may be to undertand for us (and I'm not sure to be able to explain myself here, and language has little to do in this).

As I understand them, a succesful merchant, or teacher, or doctor or whatever it is can be seen for them in the same respect that a noble, though it's understood by the society as doing different roles, and they probably don't see any contradiction in this.

The proles understand they have no vote, though they know their wills are known and taken into consideration (that's part of the Tavrchedl' mission, nearlyu as important as to identify troubled people). In a way, it's like in Starship Troopers difference among citizens and contributors, with only citizens having vote rights (with the difference that on it you can apply for a job that would end up with you being citizen).

Even so, they see the proles responsabilities as being equally important to the society, and a successful prole may be as proud of his/her post as any successful noble.

Of course, YMMV.
 
Being noble or not is another matter, I see Zhodani seeing nobleship aside from status, as dificult as this may be to undertand for us (and I'm not sure to be able to explain myself here, and language has little to do in this).

As I understand them, a succesful merchant, or teacher, or doctor or whatever it is can be seen for them in the same respect that a noble, though it's understood by the society as doing different roles, and they probably don't see any contradiction in this.

The proles understand they have no vote, though they know their wills are known and taken into consideration (that's part of the Tavrchedl' mission, nearlyu as important as to identify troubled people). In a way, it's like in Starship Troopers difference among citizens and contributors, with only citizens having vote rights (with the difference that on it you can apply for a job that would end up with you being citizen).

Even so, they see the proles responsabilities as being equally important to the society, and a successful prole may be as proud of his/her post as any successful noble.


All good points. But remember, there is a trace of elitism among the Zhodani Noble Class. At least in CT (IIRC), while a young Prole can be promoted to Intendant (or even ultimately to Noble if successful in the Games) for a high PSR, the child of a Noble, even if he/she has a low PSR, is still a Noble (i.e. they are not "demoted" to Prole because of lack of talent). So it is not quite as egalitarian/meritocratic as it might at first appear.
 
All good points. But remember, there is a trace of elitism among the Zhodani Noble Class. At least in CT (IIRC), while a young Prole can be promoted to Intendant (or even ultimately to Noble if successful in the Games) for a high PSR, the child of a Noble, even if he/she has a low PSR, is still a Noble (i.e. they are not "demoted" to Prole because of lack of talent). So it is not quite as egalitarian/meritocratic as it might at first appear.

But woe be to the intendant who commits a crime. They are reeducated and sent to proles... I have a feeling they are more than likely executed.
 
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