Yacht: Jump-1 or Jump-4 ?

[graden1]

I've seen different versions of the 200-ton yacht in various versions of Traveller, which were either jump-1 or jump-4. Some of the jump-4 designs were obviously errata waiting to happen, (MegaTravller, I think), while other editions, like TNE, featured "official" versions of both jump-1 and jump-4 yacht designs.

I'm wondering, has anyone designed (or attempted to design) a T20 version of the jump-4 yacht? Is it even possible?

XO

 

[BetterThanLife]

FASA's Desiree Keah Class Yacht (adventure class ships, volume 1)is J4, though it is 400 tons instead of the 200T of a "standard" Yacht. The conversion to T20 is in the FLibrary and posted here. If you want me to run up stats on a Jump 4, 200 ton yacht, it shouldn't be all that difficult, though it won't be very luxurious. (Too big a percentage of too small a ship devoted to jump fuel.)

The original write up of the Safari Ship was as a 200 ton J2 Yacht, which makes a good compromise.

 

[far-trader]

I agree with Bhoins, it can be done (race ya to do the design ). Shall we say 200tons, TL13, J4, anything else goes and damn the expense

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by far-trader:
I agree with Bhoins, it can be done (race ya to do the design ). Shall we say 200tons, TL13, J4, anything else goes and damn the expense

Now Dan, I was going to have the Blisten Yards do the job. (If you are going to pay that much for a J4 engine you might as well do it right.)

I come up with enough space for 4-6 of your closest friends and no small craft or practical cargo space. (In otherwords the typical person who would want one can't carry enough wardrobe to make it worthwhile.

)

Like I said, possible but not luxurious.

Granted I wasted about 10 tons on point defense lasers, power for them and a little agility.

 

[Jame]

I've designed both a LBB 2 and HG J-2, 2-G yacht. They're posted here in The Fleet if ya want 'em.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Bhoins:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far-trader:
I agree with Bhoins, it can be done (race ya to do the design ). Shall we say 200tons, TL13, J4, anything else goes and damn the expense

Now Dan, I was going to have the Blisten Yards do the job. (If you are going to pay that much for a J4 engine you might as well do it right.)</font>[/QUOTE]Are you implying that Journeyman Design Bureau is not up to quality production. We specialize in just this type of custom small ship work

I get about the same. Small crew, a few passenger staterooms, baggage allowance, minimal weaponry and only 2G. Agreed, it's not much use except for getting some wealthy bodies over long distances fast in comfort.

And pricey? You bet! Some MCr120+ But look at the quality

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by far-trader:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bhoins:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far-trader:
I agree with Bhoins, it can be done (race ya to do the design ). Shall we say 200tons, TL13, J4, anything else goes and damn the expense

Now Dan, I was going to have the Blisten Yards do the job. (If you are going to pay that much for a J4 engine you might as well do it right.)</font>[/QUOTE]Are you implying that Journeyman Design Bureau is not up to quality production. We specialize in just this type of custom small ship work

I get about the same. Small crew, a few passenger staterooms, baggage allowance, minimal weaponry and only 2G. Agreed, it's not much use except for getting some wealthy bodies over long distances fast in comfort.

And pricey? You bet! Some MCr120+ But look at the quality </font>[/QUOTE]Not at all, I was just going to spend that kind of money on a TLF Yacht. After all if it is going to be a small fast yacht, it might as well be SOTA.

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Bhoins:
Not at all, I was just going to spend that kind of money on a TLF Yacht. After all if it is going to be a small fast yacht, it might as well be SOTA.

Yeah, I got that the second after I hit post

I can see the point, I'm just of the school that says the design "works" better if it's the minimal TL required (TL13 for J4 in this case). It's just a game reason and a MTU design rule (where only the Imperial Military gets TL14+

)

 

[Flynn]

Far Trader,

I agree with your in-game reason, simply because it makes sense that the lower TL worlds are encountered more often than higher TL worlds and so ships made at lower TLs are more frequently encountered.

I like to add that the cheapest method to accomplish the task is the one most likely selected by governments and large corporations with an eye towards profit margins.

-Flynn

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Flynn:
Far Trader,

I agree with your in-game reason, simply because it makes sense that the lower TL worlds are encountered more often than higher TL worlds and so ships made at lower TLs are more frequently encountered.

I like to add that the cheapest method to accomplish the task is the one most likely selected by governments and large corporations with an eye towards profit margins.

-Flynn

The cheapest method doesn't neccessarily apply to yachts. However, the three most expensive components of a small starship are the computer, the powerplant and the jumpdrive. The Jump Drive and the Computer are not TL driven in cost, aside from the minimum required, however the TL does drive the cost of powerplants. (Which becomes a significant size savings and cost savings.)

For a Tramp Freighter that might get maintained anywhere, sure build it to teh lowest TL supporting the specs, or to TL-13. For a J4 Yacht, that can get across the sector and still make it back to the dealer for annual maintenance, go high and save money.

 

[far-trader]

Anywho here's the specs XO if they help, I left the last bit of volume blank so you can outfit it how you like as far as staterooms, baggage and such, for additional cost. The only things you can't add there are hard crunchy bits like weapons and drives

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">T20 Type YF Farreach Yacht - custom build
.
+200.0T Hull-Ndl-FS 24.000
-10.0T Upgrd-AF 2.400
-20.0T Bridge-std 1.000
-2.0T Cmp m/4 -2EP 14.000
Avi m/2
Sen m/2
Com m/1
-10.0T Jump 4P -8EP 40.000
-80.0T fuel x1J4
-10.0T Maneuver 2G -4EP 7.000
agl +2 -4EP
-10.0T Fusion13 +10EP 30.000
-10.0T fuel x4w
Fuel scoops 0.200
-5.0T purifier 0.030
-2.0T Hardpoints x2 (-4EP) 0.200
.
-41.0T custom space
.
Minimum Crew is 2: Pilot/Astrogator and
Steward/Medic allowing as many as 8 high
passengers.
.
Cost before customization is MCr118.83</pre>[/QUOTE]Some design notes:

The only energy for weapons would have to come at the sacrifice of agility, so 4EP, but that's enough for two double turrets of F3 Beam lasers at TL13, or you could go for triple turrets and add a sandcaster to each for more defense to make up for the lack of agility.

I went for an airframe needle hull for the style/coolness factor, this thing looks fast even standing still

You might decide that given it is only 2G you could better use that 10T elsewhere. In that case I'd make it a close structure with an upgrade to fully streamlined and save a few MCr.

My vision for the ship is the illustration on page 363 of The Traveller's Handbook (the one NOT blowing up ). The custom space is situated between the booms/wing roots, behind the bridge to the hatch you can see between the drive booms. I see the dish area on the dorsal port side as one of the hardpoints, the other is on the ventral starboard side. A lot of the booms is fuel with the rest being engineering space.

 

[mike wightman]

To quote myself elsewhere:

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Another nice design Dan

When are we getting the deck plans

 

[graden1]

Thanks, everyone, lots of good suggestions here! I think for some nobility, the j-1 design would be adequate for handling "local affairs", but I've got a few nobles in my campaign who need to travel fast, so they could use a j-4 yacht. And that 400 ton model looks like just the thing for the Archduke....

XO

 

[flykiller]

And that 400 ton model looks like just the thing for the Archduke....

an archduke? seems to me he'd travel in a fleet command vessel.

 

[graden1]

Originally posted by flykiller:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />And that 400 ton model looks like just the thing for the Archduke....

an archduke? seems to me he'd travel in a fleet command vessel. </font>[/QUOTE]At times, I'm sure he would. But not always. While the nobility have the power to use and command Naval assets, they don't always exercise that power. And there are times when it would be politically unwise....

XO

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Xavier Onassis:
At times, I'm sure he would. But not always. While the nobility have the power to use and command Naval assets, they don't always exercise that power. And there are times when it would be politically unwise...

XO,

That fleet command vessel isn't a comandeered naval asset, it's one of the tools an archduke is given to do his job. You know, the job that entails running an entire Domain?

Tranian just doesn't ring up Fleet Admiral Snozzcumber out of the blue one day to beg a CruRon or three for his quarterly shopping trip to Savile-III. He has his own ships for that. Ships that are crewed by and maintained by the Imperial Navy, but ships that are tasked directly to him and not carried on any fleet strength report.

An archduke is infinitely more powerful than the Real World's POTUS. Both men require an extensive communications set-up, oodles of experts, oodles of advisors, and even more oodles of records and documents at his finger tips 24/7/365. And this doesn't even get into the security concerns.

Sure, Dubya may occasionally putter around the ranch in a golf cart, but that doesn't mean the 'football', several superdooper cellphones, and a couple squads of very nasty men with very nasty weapons aren't one second away. The same will hold true for an archduke.

Putting an archduke aboard the 200dTon toy posted here will happen about as often as a POTUS flies by hot air balloon between Denver and Dieppe.

Barons, Marquis, Counts, and Viscounts will whiz around in one, while Dukes and Sector Dukes may do so rarely. But Archdukes? Score a laugh point.

Any man responsible for thousands of worlds who'd purposely take himself out of the command loop for a two week round trip in this 200 dTon toy isn't worthy of the job. And any man who'd find himself accidently out of the Domain command structure for the same period of time isn't worthy of the job either.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[graden1]

Bill, there's no need to be patronizing. It's obvious to everyone, myself included, that the "200dTon toy" is inadequate for the needs of an Archduke. I remarked that the 400 ton model linked to earlier in this thread was more appropriate for an Archduke's personal vessel, having j-4 capability, etc. But I never said it should be his primary vessel.

As for the fleet command vessel, I must admit I'm not familiar with the concept. Aren't the Archdukes powerful enough to provide their own vessels? Would they not be better off aboard vessels crewed by their own huscarles rather than the Imperial Navy? I'd like to know what Traveller products (if any) this information is published in, so I can get the "official" story.

Many thanks,

XO

ps--I'm going on the road for a few days, so I might not be posting again until about Thursday-ish. Take it easy.

 

[flykiller]

it's hard to see an archduke having much opportunity to utilize small personal vessels.

in ancient times a king would travel from castle to castle, visiting each vassal in turn. this would keep the king informed as to the status of his kingdom, and keep his vassels broke entertaining him and thus unable to rebel. an archduke easily fulfils such a role by travelling with the archducal fleet, including his 20,000 dton command ship, to each major world in a domain. such a round trip takes three to four years and is the occasion for holidays, parades, reviews, high state dinners, high awards, shipyard contract reviews, tax audits, changes of command, and official fleet inspections. what a life.

if such an archduke had a 400 dton boat he might hand it over to his black ops team. adventures galore, with heavy legal and financial backing.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Xavier Onassis:
Bill, there's no need to be patronizing.

Patronizing? I haven't been patronizing.

Yet.

It's obvious to everyone, myself included, that the "200dTon toy" is inadequate for the needs of an Archduke. I remarked that the 400 ton model linked to earlier in this thread was more appropriate for an Archduke's personal vessel, having j-4 capability, etc. But I never said it should be his primary vessel.

You said in response to Fly's suggestion about an archduke travelling about in a fleet command vessel that: While the nobility have the power to use and command Naval assets, they don't always exercise that power.

I pointed out that an archduke won't need to commandeer such vessels because they come with the job.

You then suggested that there would be times when an archduke finds it would be politically unwise... to use the assets that come with his office.

Please give us an example of a time when it would be politically wise for an archduke to cut himself off from his own command and control structure and flit about in a 400dTon toy.

As for the fleet command vessel, I must admit I'm not familiar with the concept.

Google USS Mount Whitney.

Aren't the Archdukes powerful enough to provide their own vessels?

Yes they are and those vessels, plus the huiscarles they carry, will most likely be off running various sensitive errands for the archduke. Check out the behavior of Norris' ancestor Caranda after Arbellatra left him charge of the Marches for an example.

Would they not be better off aboard vessels crewed by their own huscarles rather than the Imperial Navy?

Seeing as the IN is the primary instrument of Imperial power; the power he is tasked with wielding by the way, wouldn't it be better if he were plugged into C4I network of that organization?

I'd like to know what Traveller products (if any) this information is published in, so I can get the "official" story.

Who's being condescending now? Score a laugh point.

MT's Rebellion Sourcebook shows naval command pathways and the archduke's role in them. Presuming that the archdukes are plugged into the IN C4I network and have the assets that allow them to remain plugged into the C4I network isn't too a great conceptual leap.

As for the existence of command cruisers which are a regular feature of many Real World navies, no Traveller materials specifically discuss shoe salesmen either. Are you now going to argue that they don't exist either?

It boils down to a matter of style really. The PCs and their actions in my Traveller universe and most others resemble the characters and actions of Firefly/Serenity. Simply put, the PCs ae mice in the wainscotting. The various CT adventures and materials all lay this out. The Imperium is vast, the nobility is distant, and neither intrude greatly into the PCs everyday lives. The nearest my PCs will ever to an archduke is his profile stamped on a one credit coin.

High power campaigns in which PCs routinely rub elbows with Dulinor, Strephon, Tranian, and the like exist. There are not the norm however and barely exist in post-CT canon at all.

If you want an archduke - a man responsible for thousands of Imperial worlds and trillions of Imperial subjects - to hie it off for a couple of weeks aboard a 400 dTon toy on some sooperdooper secret special mission that amazingly involves the PCs, so be it.

Just don't be surprised when the rest of us laugh out loud.


Enjoy your trip,
Bill

 

[aramis]

I can hardly see, even in a ProtoTrav Small Ship universe, even a Subsector Duke in anything below 500; by TL 12 it should be a 1000Td + even in PT.

That being said, a 200Td Yacht is adequate for most lesser nobles.

Those 400Td yachts are good for high level honor nobles and low level nobles. But even a low level working baron holds more direct authority and power than almost any head of state on planet. Of the 13 SR, we know that 5 are crew, and two are the lord's suite, leaving 6. That's three guests and 6 goons... odds are the goons are actually gonna be doubled up in half-size SR's, to put 12 aboard....

A World's baron needs a J1, just in case he has to go visit the outsations in system.

A Count needs at least J2; he's got multiple worlds, and they're probably within J2. Subsector dukes need J4; even then, if they have to go too far, or their capital is on one end, it could put parts more than 1J4.

At a minimum, these guys will have a significant part of their personal fleet with them. Possibly borrowing IN personell to work their fleet.

Most Dukes would probably ride in a capital vessel, simply for safety and security.

Honor nobles, however, are a whole 'nother matter. Those 400 ton yachts are perfect for them and some friends, and a couple bodyguards (say 2. maybe 4.). the 200 tonners make perfect sense as a Civilian's Pleasure Boat, probably leaves system once a year, if that.