World Generation in 2300AD

[Solo]

With modifications do you believe the system/world generation rules from T20 would work well in 2300AD? Too difficult to use? Not realistic enough?

-S.

 

[Solo]

Thrash (everyone for that matter),

How do you feel about the ones in the original 2300AD game? Or the ones in Steve Jackson's Gurps:Space?

I know that those very familiar with the space sciences amongst Traveller players are unhappy with the present rules, But I'm trying to see if there is a happy medium between "realistic" and easy to implement for those not so scientifically inclined.

Just wondering, thanks for the help.

-S.

 

[Anthony]

For realistic, here's a fine commentary on the virtues of realistic system generation.

http://www.dangermouse.net/cgi-bin/comic.pl?comic=94

On the scale of 2300AD, how much system design do you really think you're going to be doing? Frankly, finding a world that's at all interesting should be a big event.

 

[Solo]

LOL! My thoughts exactly. The problem is walking the line between too realistic and too fantastic (example: Star Wars). Just wanted to see what some of the remaining fans of 2300AD thought on the matter.

-S.

 

[Secrect Cow Level]

2300 AD world creation is much better than TRAVELLER world creation. I'd say to anyone working on a T20 adaption of 2300 AD to use the 2300 AD world creation rules and ignore the TRAVELLER system.

 

[TKalbfus]

Of course the 2300 World Generation system is very time consuming. If the player decides to explore unknown star systems, the process can be very monotonous. The GM would have to roll up all the planets and see if any of them have life, most likely not. It takes an hour of system generation for the players to decide that their is nothing here of interest and move on to the next system.

 

[Colin]

Teh T20 system is biased towards generating habitable life-bearing planets. That is the nature of hte setting, though. Space Opera, even Hard Space Opera like Traveller, requires an abundance of habitable planets and aliens to interact with (and often shoot).
2300, however, is built on a different set of assumptions. I think the T20 systems could be used, but with modifications. In particular, the mechanism for generating Atmospere, Hydrographics and the Social characteristics would have to be changed. The social stuff could be kept, with modifications, if the world in question is a colony world. Otherwise, a quick system to determine if life is present should be used.

Really, in game, a Ref (or Director) shouldn't be generating systems. For an exploration-based game, that should be done ahead of time. At least a few "generic" systems could be prepared in advance.

 

[aramis]

I like 2300's, but it is a bit slow for "On the Fly". Traveller CT was quick for on-the-fly, T20 is slower, slightly more realistic, but still too populated for 2300, and the population data is based upon presuppositions of long-term habitation, terraforming by the ancients, and other such fiddles.

We now know that superjovians can and do occur, and can occur inside the ecosphere. Star Wars' Yaavin isn't quite so far fetched anymore.

We know that massive planets (jovian - superjovian) exist in quite a few systems, Where the problem lies that we still have but one system where we know the rocky worlds and subjovians.

 

[TWILIGHT]

Not sure why folks are worried about this topic. 2300AD has so few planets that there can be practically no-one there when they're discovered as discovery of a new system is still a major event in the setting. It's not like Traveller where its accepted as almost commonplace that it'll have a generic bar, customs, TED or whatever. Also if the referee has to generate many worlds in the course of a game year then it's kinda steering away from 2300AD and the referee should get a copy of traveller (TNE or T4). Disregarding the obvious flaws and numerous eratta i think the world generation system for 2300AD is ok and should be left alone. JMHO

 

[Uncle Bob]

Originally posted by Tom Kalbfus:
Of course the 2300 World Generation system is very time consuming. If the player decides to explore unknown star systems, the process can be very monotonous. The GM would have to roll up all the planets and see if any of them have life, most likely not. It takes an hour of system generation for the players to decide that their is nothing here of interest and move on to the next system.

The trick is to make the players spend six hours figuring out that there is nothing there of interest.

 

[aramis]

Originally posted by Uncle Bob:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Tom Kalbfus:
Of course the 2300 World Generation system is very time consuming. If the player decides to explore unknown star systems, the process can be very monotonous. The GM would have to roll up all the planets and see if any of them have life, most likely not. It takes an hour of system generation for the players to decide that their is nothing here of interest and move on to the next system.

The trick is to make the players spend six hours figuring out that there is nothing there of interest. </font>[/QUOTE]No, the trick is making one of the following:
1) a barren world have something of interest to one of the player's or one of the PC's prime interests
2) maintaining suspense while searching for badguys, life etc.
3)one of the "Interesting worlds" being a detailed setting for a multi-session encounter.

2300's mechanics will generate exploitable but oft devoid-of-native-life worlds. These can be interesting. it takes some thought, but they can.

For example, mineral wealth. Or nifty (seemingly alien derived) landforms. Crashed craft. etc.

 

[Colin]

The trick is to have fun. If the players have fun exploring world after lifeless world, go for it. Just generate them in advance. If they don't, throw in a living world. Fudge the dice, if necessary. The only rule, no matter the system, is have fun.
AS for world generation in 2320, it will be a hybrid of T20 and 2300 AD. The process will be simliar to 2300, but the end results (the UPP) will look like T20. At least, that's the thinking. I'm not quite there yet.

Colin

 

[Pompe]

What do you mean with "the end results will look like T20"? Presentation or resulting worlds?

Does this mean 2320 will use UPP's for planets?

 

[Colin]

Yes, 2320 will use UPP for planets, at least for quick descriptions. Planetary description will go into more detail, but the UPP is useful as a starting point.
Agian, planetary and system design in 2320 will be a plugin for 2320, and will use as many of hte concepts in T20 as possible. This allows me to use the maximum amount of space in the book for setting information and background. Along with lots of crunchy bits.

 

[Pompe]

Will 2320's UWP codes mean the same thing as in T20, or will it be modified?

(Say for atmosphere or social data.)

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

2300AD didn't have UWP codes, did it? Though I can't really think of any reason why 2300AD worlds shouldn't be convertible to UWPs.

But I would much rather that 2320AD retained the 2300AD world generation system than use the one in T20.

 

[Pompe]

No, 2300AD didn't have UWP's.

I'm not sure I like the UWP concept, partially because 2300's abundant habitable worlds are fairly similar to each other, partially because I think it is a way of describing a world which does not describe the world in a very interesting way, at least not in 2300AD's universe.

I guess one could make a new type of UWP-like or variant statistic, though. Separating social from physical ratings, using a habitability index or something like that.

Keeping 2300AD's old system. Well, if the results will look much like T20, I don't think it is necessary to have another system which essentially does the same thing. Those pages can definitely be used for something else.

Question: What are the biggest differences in the result (not the process!) between T20 and 2300AD?

 

[Colin]

The codes will mean the same thing, for compatibilty purposes. The method of arriving at those codes will be different, however. In addition to the UWP to describe the world, there will also be a UCP (or UNP, for Earth and Tirane) Universal Colony Profile and Universal National Profile. These profiles go into more detail on the economics and sociological aspects of each colony or nation. These are only shorthand methods to describe the worlds and colonies. Further information will be present in each world's description.

IIRC, 2300's world generation system tended to generate relatively few habitable worlds, despite the large number of such in human space. T20 (and Traveller in general) has more of a bias towards generating habitable worlds.

 

[Pompe]

Okay.

So basically, you are telling me that there is a difference between the result of using 2300AD's world generation rules and the actual worlds of 2300AD's human sphere.

Which of those alternatives will 2320's world generation lean towards?

 

[Colin]

Honestly, I don't know yet, I have barely looked at that section. I suspect that it will still continue to generate large numbers of lifeless worlds. There may end up being an option to generate a life-bearing world, should the Director so decide.

It has been awhile since I've looked at the world generation tables in 2300, so I may be off the mark here. I'll be looking into it soon.

Thanks,
Colin