MT Only: Why gun combat 0?

[mike wightman]

Matchlock TL2

Flintlock TL3

 

[rancke]

Matchlock TL2

Flintlock TL3

Right you are.

It's CT that doesn't mention any firearms at TL3-, and even then it is implied by revolvers being TL4.


Hans

 

[GypsyComet]

It's CT that doesn't mention any firearms at TL3-, and even then it is implied by revolvers being TL4.

The Barbarian range of available firearms falls under MT's "Archaic Weapons" as "Early Firearms". Gun Combat's selection of weapons starts at TL4, as you note, so it makes sense that Barbarians can get Gun Combat, but get no default in it.

 

[Dagrill]

Occurs to me that most folk in the U.S. have some knowledge of firearms from watching TV and movies, at least enough to know such basics as to look for a safety if the thing does not fire, to try pulling back on the slide of an automatic to chamber a round, and that empty chambers on a revolver mean it has no bullets in it. These are things that might not occur to a barbarian.

The problem with TV and movies is that they blaze away without taking a safety off first (as far as I can see) and with complete disregard to ammunition expenditure ( unless a handgun holds 50+ bullets these days),
I think the guy in Die Hard had a single bullet left at the end to kill the last baddy, but that seems to be a plot device.

Kind Regards

David

 

[JimMarn]

The problem with TV and movies is that they blaze away without taking a safety off first (as far as I can see) and with complete disregard to ammunition expenditure ( unless a handgun holds 50+ bullets these days),
I think the guy in Die Hard had a single bullet left at the end to kill the last baddy, but that seems to be a plot device.

Kind Regards

David

Cowboy movies in the 1940s and 1950s were the same, load the six shooter, fire it for what appeared to be over 100 times in one gun battle. Occasionally, Roy Rogers or John Wayne, Republic movie studio, would run out and get captured by the bad guys, but it was more of a plot device as you mentioned.

Winchester rifles in those movies did seem to be reloaded much more often.

 

[sfchbryan]

Are you disagreeing with the opening statement, or agreeing with the closing statement?

The American fixation with firearms, and the related "exposure" in entertainment media, does not add up to a cultural default skill-0, IMO. There is really no replacement for handling a working firearm, firing it under controlled conditions, and checking the (often quite different) indicators to verify that you have an empty gun.

The OTU *might* simplify that last point, what with Vilani tendencies toward technology, but might not, since there are also plenty of aliens, artisan armaments, and antiques involved.

The technical definition of "barbarian" in Traveller is pretty open. MT limits the Barbarian career to "pre-industrial", which is essentially TL3-. There were certainly primitive firearms in that range on Earth, but guns were far from standardized or reliable, or anything resembling later safety features.

I am disagreeing that the fixation on firearms = Gun Cbt 0. As you say, there is no replacement for handling a working firearm.

As far as "Barbarian", read the Technology charts in the Referee's Companion. Someone from the 1880's would be considered a "Barbarian".

 

[JimMarn]

Mythbusters has done several shows on Hollywood gun fights, and found that the various means of holding pistols as shown in the movies, causes actual accuracy to drop way off.

So I agree, Gun Combat-0 isn't going to be gained from watching movies. Maybe 'how to lose a gun fight in one easy lesson' is what will happen.

 

[Ulsyus]

But how good is the average person going to be with Gun Combat-0? Not very good.

If you consider it from a T5 perspective, that sort of skill level would mean that their chance of hitting anything further away than about 5 metres would be pretty small, approximating the level of capability implied by having learnt to shoot from watching old movies or playing GTA1-n.

So PCs and NPCs with Gun Comtat-0 can still be a threat, but probably not a credible one.

 

[McPerth]

But how good is the average person going to be with Gun Combat-0? Not very good.

If you consider it from a T5 perspective, that sort of skill level would mean that their chance of hitting anything further away than about 5 metres would be pretty small, approximating the level of capability implied by having learnt to shoot from watching old movies or playing GTA1-n.

So PCs and NPCs with Gun Comtat-0 can still be a threat, but probably not a credible one.

Maybe, but this tread in about MT, and there someone with gun combat 0 can be a credible thread at quite longer distances, depending on the weapon he/she carries...

 

[Dagrill]

Cowboy movies in the 1940s and 1950s were the same, load the six shooter, fire it for what appeared to be over 100 times in one gun battle. Occasionally, Roy Rogers or John Wayne, Republic movie studio, would run out and get captured by the bad guys, but it was more of a plot device as you mentioned.

I need to add I have just watched a programme called Ascension where a guy can't be the murderer because he doesn't know about the safety catch. I wonder if the producer (or writer), reads this board?

Regards

David

 

[JimMarn]

I need to add I have just watched a programme called Ascension where a guy can't be the murderer because he doesn't know about the safety catch. I wonder if the producer (or writer), reads this board?

Regards

David

I've seen several crime reports on tv the past few years that mention the same thing, the criminal didn't know about the safety.

 

[Vargr Breath]

Hi
There some Auto pistols that have no manual safety to click off -Glocks, the Ruger LCP and LC9s Pro, are a few.Just put in the magazine, rack the slide and your ready to go.

Dwayne

 

[Meeko100]

Hi
There some Auto pistols that have no manual safety to click off -Glocks, the Ruger LCP and LC9s Pro, are a few.Just put in the magazine, rack the slide and your ready to go.

Dwayne

True.

I would think that the reason for it is that using a gun isn't particularly difficult. Its not hard to figure out, from the little we really know about guns from just watching TV or playing video games, how to make it shoot in a direction that isn't himself. Let a man work it a minute, and he may find a button that makes the magazine release. They may have no clue how to buy more cartridges in the correct caliber, or how to care for the gun, but he could manage to shoot it until it ran dry.

 

[Spinward Scout]

There almost needs to be an ingenuity or intuition skill for figuring things out without training. J-o-T is close, but I don't think it's the same - although it would probably accomplish the same thing.

 

[aramis]

There almost needs to be an ingenuity or intuition skill for figuring things out without training. J-o-T is close, but I don't think it's the same - although it would probably accomplish the same thing.

Not even close under MT. MT's take is that Jack is the number of tries before needing to stay determined. Mongoose and T4 are the ones where it reduces the unskilled penalty...

 

[Meeko100]

Not even close under MT. MT's take is that Jack is the number of tries before needing to stay determined. Mongoose and T4 are the ones where it reduces the unskilled penalty...

CT does something like it as well. At least according to the Traveller Adventure PDF I have. Except, it considers it as having every other skill at zero, at the discretion of the ref. Not reducing the overall penalty, but it does reduce the penalties of a good number of skills to zero when you'd have the unskilled penalty before

 

[Meeko100]

There almost needs to be an ingenuity or intuition skill for figuring things out without training. J-o-T is close, but I don't think it's the same - although it would probably accomplish the same thing.

Could just have them roll a blank intelligence check to figure something out. You find a alien laundry machine. There is nothing on it in a language you speak, and allot he symbols are foreign to you. You can tell, however that its a washing machine, and can twiddle the knobs until you make it work.

You couldn't be asked to fix it, or to follow complex alien clothewashing rituals, but you can make the thing turn on.

 

[Murph]

I actually like the concept of skill level 0, which could represent the average guys knowledge of things like guns, computers, etc.

Hi,

I was looking at the Mega Traveller basic character generation and under default skills it has All But Barbarians: Gun Combat-0.

Why?

It's designed by Marc so presumably he knows on most planets in his universe
have such a high law level that most citizens of the galaxy will not have even seen a gun, let alone worked out how to fire one.

Regards

David

 

[Frankymole]

Of the Careers provided, most can justify professional exposure to firearms, and quite a few can do so with no regard to Law Level.

Guns are banned in the UK generally. Some licenses for sport shooting, culling etc exist. I was trained to maintain and fire .303 bolt action rifles and .22 target shooting at age 13 in the local cadets, no licence required. Later we did Bren gun disassembly and in later life as a bureaucrat I've done weeks of 105mm Light Gun artillery assembly, ranging, firing, etc. All in a LL that doesn't allow such things, ostensibly. QED. Maybe the game characters can too?

 

[GypsyComet]

All in a LL that doesn't allow such things, ostensibly. QED. Maybe the game characters can too?

Gun Cbt is available to MT Bureaucrats, I see. I've known a few functionaries who were also technically (US) County level law enforcement officers, though not ever uniformed.

It is also available to MT Diplomats. Whether this is due to the real world dangers of being the voice of somewhere else in a foreign realm or because the Traveller Diplomat is based strongly on Jame Retief (who *was* based on the author's RW experiences as a diplo) is hard to tell.